God is an Impossibility

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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby phyllo » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:52 pm

Even if it is every one here [10+ or so posters] I am not bothered as long as my argument is rational and sound and has consensus [intersubjectively] within the greater philosophical community i.e. the giants and members of Western, Eastern, etc.
Do you have a consensus "within the greater philosophical community"?

Isn't the real consensus that the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved?
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Dan~ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:30 am

Isn't the real consensus that the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved?

A god that loves us and is really strong would be able to do a little materialization here and there, upgrade or heal a person, etc.
You don't need to be all powerful to do that.

God and love are different things / paradigms.
I realize that, but:
Real things seem mostly provable. And if God is super real, he should be super provable, too.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:20 am

A god that loves us and is really strong would be able to do a little materialization here and there, upgrade or heal a person, etc.
You don't need to be all powerful to do that.
There are people who say that God appeared and/or talked to them. The skeptics say that didn't happen.

There are many claimed/documented cures. The skeptics say that they didn't happen.
:confusion-shrug:

It's also possible that God is completely indifferent to humans. Or that He thinks it's better for humans to solve their own problems.
Real things seem mostly provable. And if God is super real, he should be super provable, too.
Depends on what you mean by "provable" but generally proofs are difficult except in limited cases.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Dan~ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:26 am

phyllo wrote:
A god that loves us and is really strong would be able to do a little materialization here and there, upgrade or heal a person, etc.
You don't need to be all powerful to do that.
There are people who say that God appeared and/or talked to them. The skeptics say that didn't happen.

There are many claimed/documented cures. The skeptics say that they didn't happen.
:confusion-shrug:

It's also possible that God is completely indifferent to humans. Or that He thinks it's better for humans to solve their own problems.
Real things seem mostly provable. And if God is super real, he should be super provable, too.
Depends on what you mean by "provable" but generally proofs are difficult except in limited cases.


I know miracles happen. But they aren't exactly consistent or intelligible. A god that has limits, could do small miracles, while falling short to police the world and heal the sick. It'd be best if he prevented the creation of nuclear weapons, for example.

Indifferent means he doesn't want worship or obedience, right?
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:39 am

I know miracles happen. But they aren't exactly consistent or intelligible. A god that has limits, could do small miracles, while falling short to police the world and heal the sick. It'd be best if he prevented the creation of nuclear weapons, for example.
One has to be careful not to start thinking that "God ought to do the things that I think ought to be done".
Indifferent means he doesn't want worship or obedience, right?
Indifferent means that He neither loves nor hates humans - He doesn't care.

I don't think that God wants worship or obedience. But that's just my opinion.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Dan~ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 am

One has to be careful not to start thinking that "God ought to do the things that I think ought to be done".


no matter what we think or want, personally, im sure genetic modifications, and AI, will "play god", while the gods of the masses, also allowed things like mass extinctions in earth's history. People wont be protected, saved, etc. Why would god destroy or allow the destruction of the majority of all earth life's species? If he or it made them in the first place. It is like a parent making a big family then gunning them all down one day.

This may not be worded perfectly, but, the message should be clear:
A good god creates a good world.
A bad god creates a world of death, suffering, and loss.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:47 am

This may not be worded perfectly, but, the message should be clear:
A good god creates a good world.
A bad god creates a world of death, suffering, and loss.
The world is as it is. You can choose to change the things what are within your power and control. Or not.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Dan~ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:20 am

Is that a truism ?
"You can effect the world, if you can effect the world."

If I had god powerz id definitely upgrade reality.
If I don't, who will?
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:48 am

Is that a truism ?
"You can effect the world, if you can effect the world."
I didn't write that. I wrote that you had a choice.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:57 am

You might also want to remember that it isn't YOUR world.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:53 am

phyllo wrote:
Even if it is every one here [10+ or so posters] I am not bothered as long as my argument is rational and sound and has consensus [intersubjectively] within the greater philosophical community i.e. the giants and members of Western, Eastern, etc.
Do you have a consensus "within the greater philosophical community"?

Isn't the real consensus that the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved?
Note most of the points I made are supported by the giants of philosophy, i.e. Kant, Hume, Wittgenstein, Nietzsche, Russell, Buddhism [other Eastern Religions] and others. These great philosophers has a large share of consensus with many people.

Note there are many strong atheists who just don't give a damn and reject God's existence outright as a ridiculous claim. We share the same views but I justified my claim and leaving no doubts via reason with arguments [OP].

Isn't the real consensus that the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved?
Nope this view belong to a minority of agnostics.

The majority of theists believed it is "proven" [from their own experiences and other theists] God is very real 'empirically' to the extent God will listens and answers their prayers, and most of all will assure them of salvation with eternal life in a real heaven [up there, some with virgins].
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:06 am

James S Saint wrote:You might also want to remember that it isn't YOUR world.
That is why you have a narrow and shallow view.

In term as a human being 'you' have a 1/7+ billionth share of the World which you have contributed in co-creating the World-as-it-is with other living things and things.
From day one of breathing, eating, farting and shitting, you have been a contributor to reality-as-it-is. With your next breath you have created a new reality-as-it-is from reality-as-it-was [one second ago].

The above is one clue why you as a human being cannot be totally independent of the reality which you are part and parcel and has co-created.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby James S Saint » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:08 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:You might also want to remember that it isn't YOUR world.
That is why you have a narrow and shallow view.

In term as a human being 'you' have a 1/7+ billionth share of the World which you have contributed in co-creating the World-as-it-is with other living things and things.
From day one of breathing, eating, farting and shitting, you have been a contributor to reality-as-it-is. With your next breath you have created a new reality-as-it-is from reality-as-it-was [one second ago].

The above is one clue why you as a human being cannot be totally independent of the reality which you are part and parcel and has co-created.

So you think by being one of 7 billion humans, you OWN the world?

That explains a lot. :-?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25976
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby phyllo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:14 pm

Nope this view belong to a minority of agnostics.

The majority of theists believed it is "proven" [from their own experiences and other theists] God is very real 'empirically' to the extent God will listens and answers their prayers, and most of all will assure them of salvation with eternal life in a real heaven [up there, some with virgins].
I was referring to a consensus in the "greater philosophical community" which has a higher standard of proof than the "man in the street". I doubt that most people know what proof is.
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Re: God is an Impossibility

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:21 am

James S Saint wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:You might also want to remember that it isn't YOUR world.
That is why you have a narrow and shallow view.

In term as a human being 'you' have a 1/7+ billionth share of the World which you have contributed in co-creating the World-as-it-is with other living things and things.
From day one of breathing, eating, farting and shitting, you have been a contributor to reality-as-it-is. With your next breath you have created a new reality-as-it-is from reality-as-it-was [one second ago].

The above is one clue why you as a human being cannot be totally independent of the reality which you are part and parcel and has co-created.

So you think by being one of 7 billion humans, you OWN the world?

That explains a lot. :-?
Misleading and rhetorical again.
Where did I say "I OWN the world".

I stated above;
"you have a 1/7+ billionth share of the World which you have contributed in co-creating the World-as-it-is with other living things and things."

I did not mean 'share' as in the share-market, where I can trade my 'shares.'

In the above I meant co-share as a contributor and participator with 7+ billion humans.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
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