Why there is belief in an afterlife

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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:12 pm

Wendy wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Do you think that I would actually see you leave your body if you started to
astrally project in front of me or would you simply remain within your body

This is the only plane / dimension I know of so far where the soul with a meat bag to return to is invisible to a human eye ( but white ghostly forms are not unheard
of those are souls too but I am not sure why they can be seen only after death ) Souls have their own way of seeing when on other planes designed solely for their existence. Like I keep saying souls operate differently than human forms so no you wouldnt see anything not even me looking like I was dreaming ( my eyes would
not do the REM twitching no sounds would escape my mouth no movements other than shallow breathing ) but I would appear serenely asleep

Souls without a human bodies may be the only souls visible to the human eyes

I would like to put you inside an MRI scanner while you were astrally projecting then I could see exactly what was happening inside your brain
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:34 am

The brain is part of the biological human anatomy and not part of the soul's anatomy, but there might be some kind of noticeable results. The problem with that idea is that no one would know when to start the MRI and it's too noisy to run non-stop while attempting to project, but there are other medical tests perhaps such as monitoring body temperature, heart rate, sleep REM signals, etc. Plus observance tests the subject could answer on regarding objects placed elsewhere, like what the objects were (and no it wouldn't be coincidence to get them accurately described)that the subject visited.

I'd really like to make several more attempts to astral, but my psychiatric drugs dampen my energy and my emotions making it impossible now. If I ever find a research team that's serious about monitoring and testing astral projection, I would temporarily go off my meds to do the experiment successfully.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:06 am

Wendy wrote:
Notice too that versions of it are found in most religions.


What religions?

It is definitely not scriptural, in fact it is referred to as Satanic in the scriptures.

Are you aware of this?
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:59 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Wendy wrote:
Notice too that versions of it are found in most religions.


What religions?

It is definitely not scriptural, in fact it is referred to as Satanic in the scriptures.

Are you aware of this?

I thought you were going to seriously look into astral projection. What did you do, read a few Wiki links?

Where are the Satanic scriptures that refer to astral projection? As far as I can tell, Christians consider voluntary astral projections occult/witchcraft/sorcery...blah, blah, blah. However, involuntary astral projections such as Near Death Experiences are completely acceptable. Christians can sure be idiots sometimes.

Here are a couple scripture passages about out of body experiences that do not read Satanic.

"It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Corinthians 15:44


"He stretched out the form of a hand and caught me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the idol of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy, was located. Ezekiel 8:3


Astral projection is discussed in all major religions, Hindu, Islam, American Indian, Buddhism, Egyptian, Judaism, among others...but you'll have to do your own homework if you truly wish to learn anything. Even 20,000 year old ancient cave walls depict astral travels in petroglyphs.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:37 am

Wendy wrote:
The brain is part of the biological human anatomy and not part of the souls anatomy but there might be some kind of noticeable results. The problem with
that idea is that no one would know when to start the MRI and its too noisy to run non stop while attempting to project but there are other medical tests perhaps such as monitoring body temperature heart rate sleep REM signals etc. Plus observance tests the subject could answer on regarding objects placed else where like what the objects were ( and no it wouldnt be coincidence to get them accurately described ) that the subject visited

I think what would be better would be to have one MRI before you projected and one after so they could be compared

I would really like to make several more attempts to astral but my psychiatric drugs dampen my energy and my emotions making it impossible now
If I ever find a research team that is serious about monitoring and testing astral projection I would temporarily go off my meds to do the experiment successfully

There are many serious investigators who study all types of so called paranormal phenomena so if you really want to you should definitely volunteer your services
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:15 am

Wendy wrote:
Astral projection is discussed in all major religions

That may be so but it does not make it true. What is definitely true however is that the mind can experience higher states of consciousness
And so called astral projection is just one way that occurs. But there is no projection as such happening outside of the mind for what would
be doing the projecting. Anything that is happening is within the mind
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:21 am

I wanted to find out more about 'religions' that accept astral projection and this is one I found. Is this accurate according to what you believe?

New Age: The Doctrine of Evolutionary Godhood
Generally, New Age thought supports the theory of organic evolution, but extends the concept to the evolution of the spirit. This is the concept of "Evolutionary Godhood," where the next step in evolution won't be physical, but spiritual. The principles of evolution are constantly moving mankind toward god-consciousness, where man and reality connect in unified enlightenment. The "fittest" already understand this reality, while the "unfit" (such as Christians and other proponents of dogmatic worldviews) act as a hindrance to evolutionary forces. Many New Age practices are designed to accelerate the evolutionary push into the spiritual realms. These practices include: (i) astral projection, which is training your soul to leave your body and travel around; (ii) channeling spirits, so they may speak through you or guide you; (iii) crystal usage, which purifies the energy systems of your body and mind; and (iv) visualization techniques, which include everything from basic mental imagery to role playing of animals or divine creatures. In a nutshell, Evolutionary Godhood means that mankind will soon see itself as god. This is often referred to as the "Christ principle" or "Christ consciousness." New Age teaches that we are basically good and inherently divine, and ultimately, we can create our own reality.


An unexplained phenomenon may make a good story, but does not give us truth.

I thought you were going to seriously look into astral projection. What did you do, read a few Wiki links?


I didn't refer to Wiki and why would I? These sources are merely subjective human accounts or interpretations based on what we can discover with our finite minds. I initially referred to the Scriptures where it warns explicitly against occult practice, or sorcery, in Galatians 5:19-20.

In the King James Version 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, if you read the verses before and after verse 44, (the reference you gave) you will understand that 1 Corinthians Chapter 15 verses 42 to 47 is speaking essentially about the resurrection of the body.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

It is sown a natural body; such a body as all living creatures have by nature. Our carnal nature.
Raised a spiritual body; spiritual, not as to the substance of it, but in respect of the qualities and conditions of it. see Matthew 22:30 which is a cross reference.


45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Wendy wrote:
He stretched out the form of a hand and caught me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the idol of jealousy, which provokes to jealousy, was located. Ezekiel 8:3


If you read all of Ezekiel 8 v 1-4, in all of the visions or prophecies, for example, The book of Revelation, or John's vision and the prophecies or visions of the Old Testament prophets, including the prophet Ezekiel's vision all were told that this was a revelation from the Lord, and was directly from the mouth of God.

Ezekiel 8 v 1-4 KJV

1And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me. 2Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber. 3And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy. 4And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.

Astral projection is discussed in all major religions, Hindu, Islam, American Indian, Buddhism, Egyptian, Judaism, among others...but you'll have to do your own homework if you truly wish to learn anything. Even 20,000 year old ancient cave walls depict astral travels in petroglyphs.


20,000 year old. New Age doctrine?
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:01 am

astral projection which is training your soul to leave your body and travel around

I think it should first be established that the soul actually exists otherwise training it might be a tad superfluous

New Age teaches that we are basically good and inherently divine and ultimately we can create our own reality

We may be basically good but we are not inherently divine and any reality we do create is only within our minds so is not actual reality as such
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:12 pm

Where are the Satanic scriptures that refer to astral projection? As far as I can tell, Christians consider voluntary astral projections occult/witchcraft/sorcery...blah, blah, blah. However, involuntary astral projections such as Near Death Experiences are completely acceptable.

Can you list these Satanic references in the scriptures?
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians5:14-26 (Ignore the spelling errors :-? )


What is the proper Biblical definition of witchcraft?

The aspects that I highlighted in red may have a two-fold purpose: First, behave as the angel, Jesus, in the flesh, second, behave as the angel, Jesus, in the spirit. Astral projecting properly is behaving as Jesus in the spirit.

What about near death experiences...satanic practices of witchcraft and sorcery?

This astral projection phenomena is addressed in all religions because it actually occurs in reality. Instead of looking at any of the other larger, more accepted religions, of course you would pull upon an obscure new age religion and try to make a joke of ancient religions (20,000 BC.) being new age.

I'm a skeptic of how narrow-minded most Christians are when they read the Bible and extrapolate to serve their exclusionary endeavors, excluding other folks who behave more like Jesus than themselves.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:10 pm

Wendy wrote:
This astral projection phenomena is addressed in all religions because it actually occurs in reality

It is addressed in religion because it is taken as a given that the soul actually exists and has got absolutely nothing at all to do with reality
Religion is the last place I would look for an understanding on what occurs in reality because its record to date is way less than impressive
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:27 pm

Without your soul (conscious spark of life), you wouldn't exist s57, so you are your own proof. If you cannot explain your conscious spark of life with facts then you know less than those who acknowledge their souls as their source of life giving energy.

Also religions are the oldest history books, even hieroglyph and petroglyph recordings depicting everyday life in a religion.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:56 pm

Wendy wrote:
What about near death experiences ... satanic practices of witchcraft and sorcery

Near death experiences are understood by neuro science. And can be explained exclusively in terms of brain function. No religious or spiritual explanation required
Satan is a metaphor for evil and even some Satanists [ though not all ] do not think he actually existed. But while he did not exist there are witches who do. Not all
are from the dark side since there are also pagan ones who worship nature and do good. However associating Satanists or black witches with evil is just pure stereo
typing. For the fundamental philosophy of Satanism is to do as one wishes without harming others without justification. It is protected by the First Amendment the same as every other belief system is. As indeed it rightfully should be
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:02 pm

How does science state that a brain will be rendered medically dead in so many minutes, say five minutes, then the person from the near death experience survives well beyond the five minute cut-off? Not only does that one person survive, but others do as well, 8 minutes, 12 minutes, 30 minutes? Is science wrong or are we speaking of forces beyond science?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:18 pm

Wendy wrote:
Without your soul ( conscious spark of life ) you wouldnt exist s57 so you are your own proof. If you cannot explain your conscious
spark of life with facts then you know less than those who acknowledge their souls as their source of life giving energy

Also religions are the oldest history books even hieroglyph and petroglyph recordings depicting everyday life in a religion

Life can be explained by biology Wendy and nothing else. No medical or scientific text book mentions souls
A woman does not need one to get her pregnant or else she would be waiting for a very long time if she did

Religion is historical but it is not history as it references many things that could simply never have happened
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:21 pm

Explain your life energy then s57, where in biology does it come from?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:29 pm

Wendy wrote:
How does science state that a brain will be rendered medically dead in so many minutes say five minutes then the person from the near death
experience survives well beyond the five minute cut off? Not only does that one person survive but others do as well 8 minutes 12 minutes 30
minutes? Is science wrong or are we speaking of forces beyond science?

Science is always incomplete which is why it does not know the answer to everything but new knowledge is always being discovered
Suppose it finds the answer to this within your life time will you accept it or will you still think that there is some other explanation
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:32 pm

So you have no answer, no explanation, yet you condemn my beliefs which are based on my actual experiences as wrong, non-realistic? Let me know when reality okays your existence.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:38 pm

Wendy wrote:
Explain your life energy then s57 where in biology does it come from

You mean life energy in a spiritual sense but I do not believe in that type of energy at all as you know
But the energy that I know exists is physical energy such as electrical or magnetic or chemical energy
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:39 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wendy wrote:
Explain your life energy then s57 where in biology does it come from

You mean life energy in a spiritual sense but I do not believe in that type of energy at all as you know
But the energy that I know exists is physical energy such as electrical or magnetic or chemical energy

When you were conceived, what energy brought you to life?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:55 pm

Wendy wrote:
So you have no answer no explanation yet you condemn my beliefs which are based on my actual experiences as wrong non realistic

I have no problem at all with what you believe Wendy. I just do not share those beliefs as you should know by now. We just have different ways of seeing the world
You have yours and I mine. I fully defend the right of anyone to believe or think whatever they want to long as they do not impact upon the freedom of anyone else to think whatever they want to. Just for the record I do not claim to know anything at all I just think I do. So I could easily be wrong about everything I think is true
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:08 pm

Wendy wrote:
When you were conceived what energy brought you to life

Electrical and chemical energy that caused cells to multiply and increase in size
And energy from oestrogen that boosts the immune system of the foetus / baby
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:13 pm

You, your consciousness, not your physical biological body.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:49 pm

Wendy wrote:
You your consciousness not your physical biological body

Again what you mean by the word and what I mean by it are not the same thing at all
Consciousness to me simply means a function of the brain just the same as mind does

Neuro transmitters in the brain passing electrical signals to each other that then becomes a thought or series of thoughts
So entirely biological not spiritual in the sense that you think because I cannot accept anything as true without evidence

Once I start accepting something without any evidence then I have absolutely no idea how true it actually is
And that is why I cannot believe anything you believe but like I said I do not really care what anyone believes
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:56 pm

Consciousness to me simply means a function of the brain just the same as mind does

In your opinion what's the difference between the brain and the mind? Your definitions please.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:20 pm

Wendy wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Consciousness to me simply means a function of the brain just the same as mind does

In your opinion what is the difference between the brain and the mind Your definitions please

Mind is a function of the brain so it is essentially how the brain operates

A brain can exist without a mind but a mind cannot function without a brain

When the brain dies [ that is permanently dies ] then the mind no longer exists

Consciousness is also a function of the brain and again when the brain dies it also dies

Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain as spiritual energy floating around the universe

There is no evidence for this at all which is why I cannot accept it but I know you and Trixie believe this but it is not for me

I am an empiricist and so can only accept something as true where there is actual evidence for it and that is how my mind functions
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