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Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:14 pm
by Arcturus Descending
WendyDarling wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Thanks Arc, but God's height, the pinnacle of Heaven, it is not my opinion, it's my experience in astral projecting.


But this is just what I am saying here Wendy.

It is an experience unique and special to us individually.

Wherever our experience of God takes place or takes us, within our own minds and souls, whether it is in your astral projecting, Wendy, or my looking up at the sky and the stars in utter amazement and wonder, or reading the words of a Keats or Shakespeare, or another experiencing it in the most logical and beautiful (to him/her) equation, it is STILL our very own unique and highest personal attribute of God.

We are all touched in different ways and I do not think that it can be a good thing to infringe what qualia, intuitions and epiphanies we experience through this God onto other people.

That to me is one of the very things which gives religion and spirituality a bad name.

Then there should be no Bible or preaching, but I don't see you telling anyone else even yourself not to share their experiences, your only getting on my case, why is that?


I am not getting on your case, Wendy. I am just sharing with you...having a conversation with you...sharing my feelings and perhaps sharing some of others with you, like the mathematician, the poet.

Did I take away any of the validity of your personal feelings about God and your journey with God? No, I didn't.
I included that in my post.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:38 pm
by WendyDarling
The devil was an angel originally, but decided to become evil.

How could Lucifer become something that didn't already exist?

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:42 pm
by Arcturus Descending
Erik_"

The devil was an angel originally, but decided to become evil.


How did the devil *decide to become evil*, Erik?

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:49 pm
by WendyDarling
Arcturus Descending wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Thanks Arc, but God's height, the pinnacle of Heaven, it is not my opinion, it's my experience in astral projecting.


But this is just what I am saying here Wendy.

It is an experience unique and special to us individually.

Wherever our experience of God takes place or takes us, within our own minds and souls, whether it is in your astral projecting, Wendy, or my looking up at the sky and the stars in utter amazement and wonder, or reading the words of a Keats or Shakespeare, or another experiencing it in the most logical and beautiful (to him/her) equation, it is STILL our very own unique and highest personal attribute of God.

We are all touched in different ways and I do not think that it can be a good thing to infringe what qualia, intuitions and epiphanies we experience through this God onto other people.

That to me is one of the very things which gives religion and spirituality a bad name.

Then there should be no Bible or preaching, but I don't see you telling anyone else even yourself not to share their experiences, your only getting on my case, why is that?


I am not getting on your case, Wendy. I am just sharing with you...having a conversation with you...sharing my feelings and perhaps sharing some of others with you, like the mathematician, the poet.

Did I take away any of the validity of your personal feelings about God and your journey with God? No, I didn't.
I included that in my post.

Yes you did, by saying that the way I share is inappropriate, that what I do is somehow different, wrong, to what you or Erik or any other number of people do. Am I trying to convert you or anybody as religions do? I will stand behind my knowledge, my understanding. I'm not guessing. I'm not imagining. I'm not wishing. I'm not intuited it.

Did I wrong you by sharing what I know? If so, how?

That to me is one of the very things which gives religion and spirituality a bad name.,

What is that...belief?

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:58 pm
by surreptitious57
Wendy wrote:
Sorry but you are going to live forever s57. God kept his word and killed no one to my knowledge. Sure their human flesh bag dies but their conscious soul lives on

Wendy I am seriously starting to lose count of the number of times you keep making unsupportable assertions and expect me to believe them just because you do
There is absolutely no evidence for the afterlife or God or the soul and unless there is I am not going to think they exist because that is not how I determine truth

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:03 pm
by WendyDarling
Tell me about Truth. Whatever you know of truth or name some truths. Actually, you do not determine truth, other people do it for you. You either agree or disagree, but you do nothing to check if they are right.

Also, there is no afterlife, only continued existence, so we agree about no afterlife. :evilfun: :lol:

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:20 pm
by surreptitious57
And yet another unsupportable assertion from you so are you trying to break some record here
Well at least you are consistent and persistent also so kudos to you for that if for nothing else

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:23 pm
by Ultimate Philosophy 1001
surreptitious57 wrote:
Wendy wrote:
Sorry but you are going to live forever s57. God kept his word and killed no one to my knowledge. Sure their human flesh bag dies but their conscious soul lives on

Wendy I am seriously starting to lose count of the number of times you keep making unsupportable assertions and expect me to believe them just because you do
There is absolutely no evidence for the afterlife or God or the soul and unless there is I am not going to think they exist because that is not how I determine truth


surreptitious, the problem with you is that you are too future thinking, than past thinking. i only deal in probabilities, not absolutes. Because you cannot predict the future, you use this as verification of your beliefs about the future, while you pretend to present them as vague probabilities they are actually absolutes for you.

look to the past...all of us were born without asking to, we did not choose or cause our own births, it is arrogant for you to believe that it won't or can't happen again

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:41 pm
by surreptitious57
My reason for thinking the afterlife does not exist is because of lack of evidence which is an entirely reasonable position to take
But I will find out when I die and so the point is somewhat academic though my position will remain as it is while I am still alive

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:43 pm
by Arcturus Descending
Wendy wrote:

Yes you did, by saying that the way I share is inappropriate, that what I do is somehow different, wrong, to what you or Erik or any other number of people do. Am I trying to convert you or anybody as religions do? I will stand behind my knowledge, my understanding. I'm not guessing. I'm not imagining. I'm not wishing. I'm not intuited it.

Did I wrong you by sharing what I know? If so, how?

That to me is one of the very things which gives religion and spirituality a bad name.,

What is that...belief?


I really do not know where to go with this.
I have no idea where any of this came from, Wendy.

If you will re-read what I wrote, I think that you will have to realize that nothing which I said in my posts have any bearing at all on the way you are seeing things right now.
For some reason, you have just interpreted it differently and you are probably the only one who can come up with an answer as to why you took things that way.
Just as when I take things in a certain way, I am probably the only one who knows why if I search deeply enough. We all do it at least I know I do it.
This is why the mandate TO KNOW THYSELF (OKAY OURSELVES) is vitally important.


Sometimes we all have to take responsibility for the way in which we are feeling and thinking in the moment.
That is not an easy thing for me and I doubt if it is an easy thing for most.

I have my own way of expressing things. Perhaps I use words differently than you do when it comes to matters about God and one's relationship with God. That still keeps us on an equal basis, Wendy. Not one higher or lower...just differently. We all use words differently than each other when it comes to our experiences of and interpretations about God.

No, you did not wrong me. I have no idea where that would even come from, Wendy.
This is my point - that we all have a right to our own minds and hearts and experiences.
If we feel that way and others know that, how can one see that as being wrong and be offended by it?


Perhaps this...

We are all touched in different ways and I do not think that it can be a good thing to infringe what qualia, intuitions and epiphanies we experience through this God onto other people
.

Was I saying this to you, directly to you, to take to heart? I don't know. Perhaps on an unconscious level since you and I were speaking but I still don't know.
But consciously speaking, I was speaking in the universal sense where EVERYONE IS CONCERNED. There are necessarily others in here who would be reading this - not just you and me.

Tell me what you think, Wendy?
DO YOU THINK THAT IT CANNOT BE A GOOD THING TO INFRINGE ON WHAT QUALIA, INTUITIONS AND EPIPHANIES WE EXPERIENCE THROUGH THIS GOD ONTO OTHER PEOPLE?


Do I have a right to my own subjective thinking, my own so-called informed opinion about this? Yes, for me, I do because so often in here I see the same thing happening - everyone or at least many feel the need to push their religions convictions down the throat of others or at least do more gently than that.


Politics and Religion!

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:45 pm
by Ultimate Philosophy 1001
surreptitious57 wrote:My reason for thinking the afterlife does not exist is because of lack of evidence which is an entirely reasonable position to take
But I will find out when I die and so the point is somewhat academic though my position will remain as it is while I am still alive


there as an equal amount of evidence saying it does potentially exist as it doesnt potentially exist, so the problem lay in your argumentation.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:09 pm
by surreptitious57
I see no evidence but I am patient and so can wait until I die to see if there is any
But I am still planning on staying dead forever if I am vindicated just so you know
For I am not afraid of death and I do not see that changing at all while I am alive

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:54 pm
by Arcturus Descending
surreptitious57 wrote:I see no evidence but I am patient and so can wait until I die to see if there is any
But I am still planning on staying dead forever if I am vindicated just so you know
For I am not afraid of death and I do not see that changing at all while I am alive



What if you met some real hot woman who was your Venus and Aphrodite rolled into one? Like Dante felt about his Beatrice?
Then would you want to live a long time to come? Then might you be afraid to die? or at least want to live? :evilfun:

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:08 pm
by WendyDarling
Was I saying this to you, directly to you, to take to heart? I don't know. Perhaps on an unconscious level since you and I were speaking but I still don't know.
But consciously speaking, I was speaking in the universal sense where EVERYONE IS CONCERNED. There are necessarily others in here who would be reading this - not just you and me.

Tell me what you think, Wendy?
DO YOU THINK THAT IT CANNOT BE A GOOD THING TO INFRINGE ON WHAT QUALIA, INTUITIONS AND EPIPHANIES WE EXPERIENCE THROUGH THIS GOD ONTO OTHER PEOPLE?

First, you addressed me and now you don't know. Hello? Next, you're yelling at me(?) in ALL CAPS without telling me what I did to be accused of such. How have I infringed on you? I've asked you this in different words, as in how have I wronged you? You said I didn't so why are you yelling at me in ALL CAPS about a God that you don't believe in? Again, nothing I've said has been about a qualia, intuition, or epiphany, that's your department and I have no problem with your trying to make sense out of your life and my life and this big world. The conversation I've been having with Erik is about specific questions that are meant to elucidate truth rather than contraptions (as Iambiguous puts it) or misinterpretations found in the OT or NT. Yes, people read stories and then make up their own stories based on what they read, but my questions ask for the logic behind their answers. I noticed how you reworded my question about Lucifer and evil, very liberal of you, but not very nice of you. You cannot help Erik understand God or the Bible for you do not believe in any of it...just saying.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:17 pm
by Arcturus Descending
WendyDarling wrote:
Was I saying this to you, directly to you, to take to heart? I don't know. Perhaps on an unconscious level since you and I were speaking but I still don't know.
But consciously speaking, I was speaking in the universal sense where EVERYONE IS CONCERNED. There are necessarily others in here who would be reading this - not just you and me.

Tell me what you think, Wendy?
DO YOU THINK THAT IT CANNOT BE A GOOD THING TO INFRINGE ON WHAT QUALIA, INTUITIONS AND EPIPHANIES WE EXPERIENCE THROUGH THIS GOD ONTO OTHER PEOPLE?

First, you addressed me and now you don't know. Hello? Next, you're yelling at me(?) in ALL CAPS without telling me what I did to be accused of such. How have I infringed on you? I've asked you this in different words, as in how have I wronged you? You said I didn't so why are you yelling at me in ALL CAPS about a God that you don't believe in? Again, nothing I've said has been about a qualia, intuition, or epiphany, that's your department and I have no problem with your trying to make sense out of your life and my life and this big world. The conversation I've been having with Erik is about specific questions that are meant to elucidate truth rather than contraptions (as Iambiguous puts it) or misinterpretations found in the OT or NT. Yes, people read stories and then make up their own stories based on what they read, but my questions ask for the logic behind their answers. I noticed how you reworded my question about Lucifer and evil, very liberal of you, but not very nice of you. You cannot help Erik understand God or the Bible for you do not believe in any of it...just saying.


I will just say this and leave it at that.
The ALL CAPS were simply for emphasis.

I like you, Wendy, and for that reason, my personal choice is to leave this alone. It has already gone too far already.
I am detaching from it all, for both our sakes.
You can choose to continue on - but it will be alone.

I wish you Peace.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:21 pm
by WendyDarling
Okay Arc...Peace. O:)

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:32 pm
by Ierrellus
It may be that, immersed in progressive evolution, we find it difficult to believe in the final end of personal existence. Instead of believing in extinction we envisage a future of life. This is because lives move forward. In evolutionary terms death amounts to transition; there appears to be no final end. And, too, belief in immortality helps many cope with the hardships of this life.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:45 pm
by WendyDarling
Ierrellus wrote:It may be that, immersed in progressive evolution, we find it difficult to believe in the final end of personal existence. Instead of believing in extinction we envisage a future of life. This is because lives move forward. In evolutionary terms death amounts to transition; there appears to be no final end. And, too, belief in immortality helps many cope with the hardships of this life.

What if the hardships of this life are meant to aid you, distract you, from the harsh reality of already being an eternal being? Yes, we transition, our soul body sheds the human meat sack and on we go transitioning.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:27 am
by A Shieldmaiden
Wendy wrote:
............ Yes, we transition, our soul body sheds the human meat sack and on we go transitioning.



How do you know this?

I've asked you this before and you chose not to elaborate.

I would like to know the basis for your belief on this 'transitioning'.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:50 am
by WendyDarling
Quid pro quo, SM (you owe me answers too)

My conscious soul has transitioned away from my human body through astral projection. I've discussed this elsewhere on ILP.

We are made up of two bodies (the human meat sack and the conscious soul) that work in tandem while the meat sack remains in shape, but our meat sacks wear out (ages) while our souls do not (wear out or age). Through astral projection, my soul has traveled away from my human body, no longer residing in a certain location within the meat sack. During my travels I visited other planes of existence for souls only (no objects, no meat sacks), locations made purely of emotional energies which could be reckoned with a Heaven of gold feeling like Peace and a Hell of darkness feeling like Hopelessness. I was very awake, very conscious, but not using my physical human body to see, to feel, to experience these happenings and places.

I no longer believe that there is an afterlife, it's all the soul's eternal life. Being human (once or repeatedly, the same life looped and/or different lives throughout Earth's existence) may be a mere distraction from the lot called infinity. Right now, mankind knows nothing of significance regarding their affairs (other than slants found in contradicting history books and research findings/studies, religious books included centering on their meat bag), but I don't believe that mankind (the meat form) is of significance, our conscious souls are what's important, but human life distracts 99.9% of the people from truly investigating other possibilities of what we may actually be beyond flesh and blood. In a nut shell, that is your answer.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:12 am
by A Shieldmaiden
So where does God fit into all this?

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:16 am
by WendyDarling
He created us and the Earth plane. Those planes of emotion may be aspects of His consciousness. Souls (which appear white like ghosts) are trapped in Hopelessness. I didn't see anyone on the Peace plane, but I didn't look up either and there was more to it above me.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:54 am
by A Shieldmaiden
OK

I will do some research into this 'astral projection'?

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:06 am
by WendyDarling
A Shieldmaiden wrote:OK

I will do some research into this 'astral projection'?

Notice too that versions of it are found in most religions.

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:41 am
by surreptitious57
Do you not think that astral projection is just another higher state of consciousness like all the others
As you can also leave your mind when you meditate or dream or hallucinate so what is the difference