Why there is belief in an afterlife

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:34 pm

Consciousness is also a function of the brain and again when the brain dies it also dies
You never explained how this is possible when I said many return after brain death with their consciousness.

Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain as spiritual energy floating around the universe
Tell that to God, your creator. Nevermind, He heard you. He knows you very well.
Last edited by WendyDarling on Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:35 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wendy wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Do you think that I would actually see you leave your body if you started to
astrally project in front of me or would you simply remain within your body

This is the only plane / dimension I know of so far where the soul with a meat bag to return to is invisible to a human eye ( but white ghostly forms are not unheard
of those are souls too but I am not sure why they can be seen only after death ) Souls have their own way of seeing when on other planes designed solely for their existence. Like I keep saying souls operate differently than human forms so no you wouldnt see anything not even me looking like I was dreaming ( my eyes would
not do the REM twitching no sounds would escape my mouth no movements other than shallow breathing ) but I would appear serenely asleep

Souls without a human bodies may be the only souls visible to the human eyes

I would like to put you inside an MRI scanner while you were astrally projecting then I could see exactly what was happening inside your brain


same here. i would also like to put a one sided board above them to see if they could correctly report what was on the otherside of the board.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:36 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Wendy wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Consciousness to me simply means a function of the brain just the same as mind does

In your opinion what is the difference between the brain and the mind Your definitions please

Mind is a function of the brain so it is essentially how the brain operates

A brain can exist without a mind but a mind cannot function without a brain

When the brain dies [ that is permanently dies ] then the mind no longer exists

Consciousness is also a function of the brain and again when the brain dies it also dies

Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain as spiritual energy floating around the universe

There is no evidence for this at all which is why I cannot accept it but I know you and Trixie believe this but it is not for me

I am an empiricist and so can only accept something as true where there is actual evidence for it and that is how my mind functions

thing is, when one brain dies there are other brains for it to go to, thus your conclusion is logically unsound.

i do however support your enthusiasm for more research in proving out of body experiences are real or fake.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:40 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
Wendy, surreptitious57 wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
Do you think that I would actually see you leave your body if you started to
astrally project in front of me or would you simply remain within your body

This is the only plane / dimension I know of so far where the soul with a meat bag to return to is invisible to a human eye ( but white ghostly forms are not unheard
of those are souls too but I am not sure why they can be seen only after death ) Souls have their own way of seeing when on other planes designed solely for their existence. Like I keep saying souls operate differently than human forms so no you wouldnt see anything not even me looking like I was dreaming ( my eyes would
not do the REM twitching no sounds would escape my mouth no movements other than shallow breathing ) but I would appear serenely asleep

Souls without a human bodies may be the only souls visible to the human eyes
I would like to put you inside an MRI scanner while you were astrally projecting then I could see exactly what was happening inside your brain


same here. i would also like to put a one sided board above them to see if they could correctly report what was on the otherside of the board.

I would love nothing more than providing this proof you need, but you might try to explain it away with lucky guessing or coincidence.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:47 pm

WendyDarling wrote:same here. i would also like to put a one sided board above them to see if they could correctly report what was on the otherside of the board.
I would love nothing more than providing this proof you need, but you might try to explain it away with lucky guessing or coincidence.


science requires repeated experiments, if this is repeated over and over the science is proven. and yes their are lying douchebags out there who make up fake experiments and also douchebags who are paranoid of those douchebags and accuse everything of being fake.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:49 pm

Is science patient? I don't know. It took me years to astral project one time. Would science wait?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:55 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Is science patient? I don't know. It took me years to astral project one time. Would science wait?


Well if people who astral projected weren't morons, they would put boards above their heads with a random playing card to see if they can observe the card before they see it.

If people who ran hospitals weren't morons, they would put boards with secret words above dying patients in order to verify the authenticity of so-called out of body experiences.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:08 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Consciousness is also a function of the brain and again when the brain dies it also dies
You never explained how this is possible when I said many return after brain death with their consciousness.

Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain as spiritual energy floating around the universe
Tell that to God, your creator. Nevermind, He heard you. He knows you very well.


Has it actually been proven and verified that a particular person who was brain dead for a particular period of time (I dont know what the official numbers would be) came back to life?
I know that one's heart can stop for a time and then start beating again but a brain? I don't know.


Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain


Why do you doubt this?
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15115
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:13 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
Consciousness is also a function of the brain and again when the brain dies it also dies
You never explained how this is possible when I said many return after brain death with their consciousness.

Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain as spiritual energy floating around the universe
Tell that to God, your creator. Nevermind, He heard you. He knows you very well.


Has it actually been proven and verified that a particular person who was brain dead for a particular period of time (I dont know what the official numbers would be) came back to life?
I know that one's heart can stop for a time and then start beating again but a brain? I don't know.
Yes, the heart has stopped beating, stopped circulating oxygen to the brain for quite long, unreasonably long periods of time. I'll check to see what's the longest length of time of death, a brain deprived of oxygen.


Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain


Why do you doubt this?God doesn't have a brain and He is conscious, so you are conscious.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:15 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Consciousness is also a function of the brain and again when the brain dies it also dies

You never explained how this is possible when I said many return after brain death with their consciousness

I very clearly stated that science does not yet have the answer to that particular question but over time may
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:22 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Consciousness cannot exist without a functioning brain as spiritual energy floating around the universe

Tell that to God your creator. Nevermind He heard you He knows you very well

Please stop making evidence free assertions and passing them off as truth statements
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:26 pm

Eben Alexander was in an "unrecoverable coma"for a week. Relevant because he was a neuro surgeon He concluded after his experience that consciousness was separate from the biological structure,as many of his patients tried to convince him after their experiences under his scalpel.


Clinical death is the medical term for cessation of blood circulation and breathing, the two necessary criteria to sustain human and many other organisms' lives.[1] It occurs when the heart stops beating in a regular rhythm, a condition called cardiac arrest. The term is also sometimes used in resuscitation research.

At the onset of clinical death, consciousness is lost within several seconds. Measurable brain activity stops within 20 to 40 seconds.[2] Irregular gasping may occur during this early time period, and is sometimes mistaken by rescuers as a sign that CPR is not necessary.[3] During clinical death, all tissues and organs in the body steadily accumulate a type of injury called ischemic injury.~Wiki


http://listverse.com/2013/07/19/10-peop ... -the-dead/ Many of these cases have to do with the person's body being refrigerated and then regaining consciousness. That in itself is freaky. Does the refrigeration give the body time to adapt to repairing itself by slowing all its processes down?

17 hours in this report http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... hours.html
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:30 pm

Wendy wrote:
Is science patient I dont know. It took me years to astral project one time

Science has all the time in the world Wendy and will be here long after we have gone so is very patient indeed
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:32 pm

Long after humankind has gone extinct...only God, angels, and our souls will be left.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:40 pm

I meant when one has actually been pronounced dead, when all brain function has ceased, not just the heart.

I don't think that we can actually think of God in terms of human attributes or language like conscious or consciousness. You said it yourself - God doesn't have a brain.
You're thinking in human terms, Wendy.

Can we have an *experience* of what we believe to be touched by God? Yes, but can we know God, about God? How can we?
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15115
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:40 pm

Maybe the criteria for determining permanent brain death is only reliable
for most of the time rather than for all of the time as ideally it should be
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:47 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Long after humankind has gone extinct...only God, angels, and our souls will be left.


Okay, this thread is called belief in an afterlife.
What you just gave, Wendy, is your belief but it isn't necessarily reality or the way it's going to turn out.
But we are all entitled to our beliefs.

That's Clinical Death Wendy. That's not what I am talking about.


According to wikipedia.org, clinical death is the medical term for cessation of blood circulation and breathing, the two necessary criteria to sustain life. This is what you call cardiopulmonary arrest, a period when a person’s heartbeat and breathing stop but can still be revived if early medical attention is given.

On the other hand, brain/biological death occurs four to six minutes after clinical death. This is due to the fact that the heart is the main pumping machine of the body, and without the blood coming from the heart, the brain will gradually cease to function until it achieves irreversible damage. This is when the doctor will formally or legally declare that the person is dead as the neurological damage to the person is really impossible to reverse.

A person can be clinically dead but can still exist with the help of artificial life support. This is the best time to consider the option of organ donation. Technically, the patient is already dead but the organs are still functioning. Once the life support is taken off, the whole body will start to deteriorate and cease its functions permanently. Brain death, either of the whole brain or the brain stem, is used as a legal indicator of death in many jurisdictions.



Has anyone returned from Brain Death? That's the end of the line.
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
User avatar
Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker
 
Posts: 15115
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm
Location: A state of unknowing

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:11 pm

If the brain is not getting oxygen for six minutes, that is brain death. I don't know how many rounds of CPR the hospitals do or how many times they shock hearts but that would depend on the patients age and odds of recovery. Were my examples not dead enough for you?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:20 pm

The universe and existence "remembers" everything. A single human does not. If you want proof of this then just dig around in the dirt a little bit. Fossils, bones, sediment, life and death are cycles of Nature. To believe in "one life" and "the afterlife" simply reeks of judeo-christian indoctrination and childishness. It's immature and unwise. The pagans were more accurate and true. Christianity in particular fears death so much that average humans cannot deal with that. Humanity cannot accept "one lifetime", so invented the ideal, the dream world, the nihilistic compulsion, that "we all get to live again in paradise".

It's obviously false, but, too appealing for the slave castes to let go. Hence you types are addicted to the notion that "I get to live again and again and again". You don't. You get one lifetime. And if you fuck it up, then that's the end of it. You don't have a sense of morality. Because if you did have a sense of morality, then you would begin to see and realize how important it is, "if" you have one lifetime. Consider the idea. You have one lifetime, and so does everybody else. Can you then realize how powerful decisions are in life? That you affect others, and are affected by others?

You go drunk driving, "just one time", and kill somebody? You destroyed a lifetime. No resets. No "afterlife".

End your christian-jewish nihilistic tendencies!!! You are immoral to believe in "after life" and fantasy worlds! It's absolutely immoral to believe in these judeo-christian notions of abrahamic god, that "god" takes care of everything for you. That you are not responsible for yourself, your life, your actions.

It's complete cowardice and decadence. The opposite of "morality". This is why christianity-judaism-islam are all nihilistic inversions. They claim to be moral, but they are all, at heart, deeply immoral and irresponsible.
Urwrongx1000
Thinker
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:23 pm

You go drunk driving, "just one time", and kill somebody?

Have you ever operated a motor vehicle with alcohol in your system, Urwrong?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:29 pm

Wendy wrote:
If the brain is not getting oxygen for six minutes that is brain death. I dont know how many rounds of CPR the hospitals do or how many
times they shock hearts but that would depend on the patients age and odds of recovery. Were my examples not dead enough for you

The problem is not with your examples but your assumption that they are evidence of something you very much want to be true
There may currently be no scientific answer for them but that does not mean that there never will be one at some point in time
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:32 pm

You science types make your definitions and then don't acknowledge when they fail to represent reality. What is the clinical definition of brain death s57? Now you are going to reject your science's definitions as being wrong? If everything science and non-science is wrong, is anything right?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:35 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
You go drunk driving, "just one time", and kill somebody?

Have you ever operated a motor vehicle with alcohol in your system, Urwrong?

Have you??
Urwrongx1000
Thinker
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:39 pm

I did in my 20's, three times. I can admit my mistakes...you obviously cannot, but rather deflect the question back which makes it easy for me to dismiss your sense of moral superiority as a non-nihilist.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 6912
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Why there is belief in an afterlife

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:50 pm

I'm deflecting because when you need to become personal, it indicates to me a loss of your original argument and point.

I've driven after drinking, but varying amounts. I have only over drank once in my lifetime, and did not drive then.

But this is all beside-the-point, isn't it? You're questioning my moral compunction, as if I do not take account nor stock in my decisions in life? How else could I hold the view that I have, or make these points, on a mere whim? Ideals do reflect those that hold them. And even morality is a form of idealism, the want and desire to take control of your own life and choices. Not everybody is powerful in this regard, spiritually.

Hence why 99.99% of humanity seeks authority, gods, abrahamism, and other proxies and scapegoats to rid themselves of guilt, vileness, evil, bad thoughts, junk, and spiritual rot.


Anyway, my point still stands. It is most moral of all to reject all these notions that humanity receives "reset buttons" from divinity when something bad, embarrassing, stupid, vile, or atrocious happens. There are no reset buttons.

As I said, "Nature" remembers everything, no effort or energy required. The fossils, the dead, the bones, are all under our feet, although most forget this, and have become detached (forgetful) about their own roots and origins.
Urwrongx1000
Thinker
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users