Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of al

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Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of al

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:56 am

Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms of all of us ending in heaven?

Hell is obviously an invention of the church. Universalists Gnostic Christianity and other Universalist Abrahamic cults do not see God as a loser of the souls he calls the light of the world.

The light of the world does not end in hell.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

As you can see, especially those last two quotes, all are saved without a sacrifice.

The logic behind Universalism begins with knowing that all souls are created equal. It thus follows that God would treat all souls the same way and would all be given the best possible end due to us being the light of the world and equal. This follows natural law as well as heavenly law as those are never in conflict.

Look at judging, from God’s point of view, with an example of one we mostly think of as evil, Hitler.

Hitler would appear before God and as God examines Hitler’s life, he would see that all those Hitler interacted with, and who contributed to what Hitler became, would all have to share the blame and guilt for Hitler becoming the monster we think he was.

If you take that sound judging logic to it’s ultimate end, you will see the logic of either punishing all of us for what we have contributed to evil, or forgive us all for all being exactly what God, if he existed, created us to be.

Non-Universalist creeds, that have that imaginary religious creation called hell, are trying to appease their own blame and guilt by placing some souls above others even though God would have created us all equal. God unites while religions separate.

Do you believe God to be a Universalist God, or a God that is such a poor creator that he would have to send his perfectly created souls to eternal punishment instead of just curing them, if required?

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:12 pm

I agree, But you are asking folks to be logical when their thinking is ruled by fear. I believe Nels Ferre (SIC) once infuriated the flock by claiming Hitler would be saved from hell. In any event God will reclaim all that He has created. He is not a loser. But, people seem to want hell to exist who believe justice amounts to retribution.
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:22 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I agree, But you are asking folks to be logical when their thinking is ruled by fear. I believe Nels Ferre (SIC) once infuriated the flock by claiming Hitler would be saved from hell. In any event God will reclaim all that He has created. He is not a loser. But, people seem to want hell to exist who believe justice amounts to retribution.

Lower realms do exist, how many and of what nature they all are remains to be known, but is it God's retribution or man's himself that sends him downward? Redemption may be the goal to get to Heaven. However, redemption must be sought to happen. The nonredeemable remain so as long as they do not choose the redemption of changing their ways.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:31 pm

Non-Universalist creeds, that have that imaginary religious creation called hell, are trying to appease their own blame and guilt by placing some souls above others even though God would have created us all equal. God unites while religions separate.

Hell is not imaginary and God does not make the initial judgement that lands you in the lower realms, you do or more over, you will. Your human life will flash before your eyes, all your memories without any emotional attachments, but those memories you participated in will not be how you are judged. Each realm of existence, other than the Earth and etheric realms, are made of a pure emotion which you will either feel at home in or not, feel worthy of or not. I can't say that I understand how a soul will move up from the lower realms, I don't know. I will say that the lower realm that I visited, there was no hellfire or brimstone, but it was the realm of Hopelessness so those souls there were suffering and they did seek relief from that one emotion.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:56 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I agree, But you are asking folks to be logical when their thinking is ruled by fear. I believe Nels Ferre (SIC) once infuriated the flock by claiming Hitler would be saved from hell. In any event God will reclaim all that He has created. He is not a loser. But, people seem to want hell to exist who believe justice amounts to retribution.


Thanks for this.

I agree that fear rules the mind of a theist. That or like most Christians, they just keep their eye on the prise of salvation from Jesus even though substitutionary punishment is quite immoral.

Morality is not a Christian forte.

To your last. I agree that Christians seem to love to hate and want to gain revenge on others or do the one-upmanship instead of forgiving them.

Give a listen to what Christians did when told the truth of hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv_rmQuagpY

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:02 pm

WendyDarling wrote:[
Lower realms do exist, how many and of what nature they all are remains to be known, .


If you do not know their nature, how can you say they are lower?

Seems you are letting fantasy thinking put the cart before the horse.

Gnostic Christianity, in our myths, show Yahweh at a lower realm than the true God of this universe. Not that we hold any supernatural beliefs though. Our myths were written to argue against Christians when the knew their God was just a myth and before they became idol worshipers.

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:06 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Non-Universalist creeds, that have that imaginary religious creation called hell, are trying to appease their own blame and guilt by placing some souls above others even though God would have created us all equal. God unites while religions separate.

Hell is not imaginary and God does not make the initial judgement that lands you in the lower realms, you do or more over, you will. Your human life will flash before your eyes, all your memories without any emotional attachments, but those memories you participated in will not be how you are judged. Each realm of existence, other than the Earth and etheric realms, are made of a pure emotion which you will either feel at home in or not, feel worthy of or not. I can't say that I understand how a soul will move up from the lower realms, I don't know. I will say that the lower realm that I visited, there was no hellfire or brimstone, but it was the realm of Hopelessness so those souls there were suffering and they did seek relief from that one emotion.


So you would condemn yourself to hell.

Let me agree that most Christians deserve to do so thanks to being in an intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion.

As to hell being real. Are you saying that this Bishop is lying?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:09 pm

WendyDarling wrote:[God does not make the initial judgement that lands you in the lower realms, you do or more over, you will.


As an aside.

I agree with this as Jesus took the judgement seat and more or less usurped the power to judge that was once God's.

Yahweh is now redundant and we should all be happy not to be judged by a genocidal son murdering prick who will accept sacrifices and bribes to change his verdicts.

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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:14 pm

From my experiences, it's a matter of where your emotions align, so yes, you would align with a lower realm and place yourself in a Hell realm essentially. It's not a matter of religious affiliation, but where your core essence, your soul aligns, in which emotion. Mind you, I have not had the opportunity to visit all the realms yet, so there could be worse realms than Hopelessness. Would a fear realm be worse than a hopelessness realm? I don't know.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Can you understand the logic of Universality, in terms o

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:08 pm

WendyDarling wrote:From my experiences, it's a matter of where your emotions align, so yes, you would align with a lower realm and place yourself in a Hell realm essentially. It's not a matter of religious affiliation, but where your core essence, your soul aligns, in which emotion. Mind you, I have not had the opportunity to visit all the realms yet, so there could be worse realms than Hopelessness. Would a fear realm be worse than a hopelessness realm? I don't know.


You are talking about emotional states and calling them different levels of hell. Weird.

If you wish to talk of emotional states, do so, but to use hell as a description is not accurate as hell is not defined as an emotional state. It is described as a place of punishment.

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