The only savior man has is himself

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The only savior man has is himself

Postby eaglerising » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:45 am

Man’s inability or unwillingness to accept complete and total responsibility for himself causes him to believe in a savior outside himself. Being completely and totally responsible for himself is unacceptable to him because he wouldn’t be able to blame something or someone for his thoughts and actions. It is easier and more comforting to believe in a savior outside himself, regardless of what it is called.

Likewise, he doesn’t realize the only one who can change or resolve the problems he created, is himself. Furthermore, his uniqueness prevents anyone from saving him, because he is the only one who has the solution to the problems he created. Denial of his responsibility perpetuates the illusion of an external savor.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby surreptitious57 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:03 am

I totally endorse the principle of responsibility in whatever form it takes. And so I accept complete responsibility for everything I have ever thought or said or done
as an adult and blame no one or no thing for any of my failings whatever they may be. For the way my life has turned out is ultimately down to me and no one else
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Otto_West » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:31 am

In this universe there are no saviors not even human beings for themselves.
Your entire world of fantasy and make believe is doomed, have a nice day.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Magnus Anderson » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:59 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:I totally endorse the principle of responsibility in whatever form it takes. And so I accept complete responsibility for everything I have ever thought or said or done
as an adult and blame no one or no thing for any of my failings whatever they may be. For the way my life has turned out is ultimately down to me and no one else


Right. So if someone comes along and hits you in the head and makes you bleed to death it's you who caused it and not him. He's innocent and you're guilty.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:58 am

Beings require other beings to learn. No way around that. Bastard! You made me post outside of my last thread, because it was on the same topic as a confusion of the topic! *sigh*. Oh well... I'll just link this post to the other thread.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:38 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I totally endorse the principle of responsibility in whatever form it takes. And so I accept complete responsibility for everything I have ever thought or said
or doneas an adult and blame no one or no thing for any of my failings whatever they may be. For the way my life has turned out is ultimately down to me

So if someone comes along and hits you in the head and makes you bleed to death its you who caused it and not him

Death is not something which bothers me regardless of what form it actually takes because then I will be truly free
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:53 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:
I totally endorse the principle of responsibility in whatever form it takes. And so I accept complete responsibility for everything I have ever thought or said
or doneas an adult and blame no one or no thing for any of my failings whatever they may be. For the way my life has turned out is ultimately down to me

So if someone comes along and hits you in the head and makes you bleed to death its you who caused it and not him

Death is not something which bothers me regardless of what form it actually takes because then I will be truly free


lol We don't know enough about death or the afterwards to know if we would truly be free.
You can have no idea of what awaits you. It's all supposition to you.
If there be nothing, then perhaps you will be free but then again is nothingness actually freedom?
Can there BE freedom without actual choice?
You are supposing that there is nothing.
You might want to live as though there was something.
At any rate, I do wish you well, Surreptitious, and I hope that what there is for you is what you would want.
SAPERE AUDE!


If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.


What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel


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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:30 am

eaglerising wrote:Man’s inability or unwillingness to accept complete and total responsibility for himself causes him to believe in a savior outside himself. Being completely and totally responsible for himself is unacceptable to him because he wouldn’t be able to blame something or someone for his thoughts and actions. It is easier and more comforting to believe in a savior outside himself, regardless of what it is called.

Likewise, he doesn’t realize the only one who can change or resolve the problems he created, is himself. Furthermore, his uniqueness prevents anyone from saving him, because he is the only one who has the solution to the problems he created. Denial of his responsibility perpetuates the illusion of an external savor.


It sounds like you've been having issues with your own responsibility of self. You've articulated a bunch of bullshit. You should probably have a professional diagnose your current case of verbal diarrhea. That could get to be embarrassing in social gatherings.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:53 pm

eaglerising wrote:Man’s inability or unwillingness to accept complete and total responsibility for himself causes him to believe in a savior outside himself. Being completely and totally responsible for himself is unacceptable to him because he wouldn’t be able to blame something or someone for his thoughts and actions. It is easier and more comforting to believe in a savior outside himself, regardless of what it is called.

Likewise, he doesn’t realize the only one who can change or resolve the problems he created, is himself. Furthermore, his uniqueness prevents anyone from saving him, because he is the only one who has the solution to the problems he created. Denial of his responsibility perpetuates the illusion of an external savor.


Nicely put.

I often use the following when speaking to Christians on them using Jesus as savior.

--------------
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Do you agree?
----------

They usually run for the hills.

They would rather think a God would die for them, when all their God is, basically, is a slave owning tyrant. Slave masters do not die for their slaves, he frees them.

Reality is not something they want to deal with.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:01 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:[
Death is not something which bothers me regardless of what form it actually takes because then I will be truly free


lol We don't know enough about death or the afterwards to know if we would truly be free.
You can have no idea of what awaits you. It's all supposition to you.
If there be nothing, then perhaps you will be free but then again is nothingness actually freedom?
Can there BE freedom without actual choice?
You are supposing that there is nothing.
You might want to live as though there was something.
At any rate, I do wish you well, Surreptitious, and I hope that what there is for you is what you would want.


As far as what we know, even instinctively, death is our final resting place and that is why freeing the spirit/life is a phrase as old as the hills.

Death then would be freedom of whatever is left of us after death.

Only those who are really vile and haters will believe in something negative like a hell or bandage awaits us.

Only the religious can usually hate that much.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby eaglerising » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:31 am

DEATH only exists If you see yourself as being the physical body. In other words, it is a "duality" view. On the other hand, from a non-duality view, death doesn't exist. There is only LIFE which has always existed and will never end.

Those who see themselves as being the physical body perceive they are in control. They judge things as being right or wrong, good or evil, fair or unfair. On the other hand, those who realize the physical body is a vehicle, realize "control" is an illusion and see things for what they are as opposed to what they appear to be.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:19 pm

eaglerising wrote:DEATH only exists If you see yourself as being the physical body. In other words, it is a "duality" view. On the other hand, from a non-duality view, death doesn't exist. There is only LIFE which has always existed and will never end.

Those who see themselves as being the physical body perceive they are in control. They judge things as being right or wrong, good or evil, fair or unfair. On the other hand, those who realize the physical body is a vehicle, realize "control" is an illusion and see things for what they are as opposed to what they appear to be.


If you do not control you, then who is in control of you?

If you judge not, which seems to be where you are heading, then would you not judge the one raping your wife or daughter to be quite evil?

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:13 pm

I will tell you that the flesh is you as well as the spirit of the flesh. Whatever chooses to bind itself to the flesh can become part you. If you deny your own flesh, then I think that does really say all that there needs to be known about you and whether to trust or not to a spiritual being of a person who would say goodbye to the flesh that has served them for however many years upon death. Certainly the flesh goes its own way while some spiritual part of what claims to be it goes another, but the not-so-confusing part of it is that you are still the flesh. No matter where your consciousness may drift, it will also go back to the particles, no matter how dead or decayed that it stemmed from, even if it inhabits many casings of flesh in its eternal walk. Think along the lines of the long-term thinker and dreamer that could conceivably create reality and what they would have to go through to actually conceive of it.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:37 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:I will tell you that the flesh is you as well as the spirit of the flesh. Whatever chooses to bind itself to the flesh can become part you. If you deny your own flesh, then I think that does really say all that there needs to be known about you and whether to trust or not to a spiritual being of a person who would say goodbye to the flesh that has served them for however many years upon death. Certainly the flesh goes its own way while some spiritual part of what claims to be it goes another, but the not-so-confusing part of it is that you are still the flesh. No matter where your consciousness may drift, it will also go back to the particles, no matter how dead or decayed that it stemmed from, even if it inhabits many casings of flesh in its eternal walk. Think along the lines of the long-term thinker and dreamer that could conceivably create reality and what they would have to go through to actually conceive of it.


Gnostic Christians would agree with most of this without buying into the supernatural which you seem to have bought into with your "flesh in its eternal walk".

Let's stick with what can be known and stay away from what cannot be known.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:06 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:I will tell you that the flesh is you as well as the spirit of the flesh. Whatever chooses to bind itself to the flesh can become part you. If you deny your own flesh, then I think that does really say all that there needs to be known about you and whether to trust or not to a spiritual being of a person who would say goodbye to the flesh that has served them for however many years upon death. Certainly the flesh goes its own way while some spiritual part of what claims to be it goes another, but the not-so-confusing part of it is that you are still the flesh. No matter where your consciousness may drift, it will also go back to the particles, no matter how dead or decayed that it stemmed from, even if it inhabits many casings of flesh in its eternal walk. Think along the lines of the long-term thinker and dreamer that could conceivably create reality and what they would have to go through to actually conceive of it.


Gnostic Christians would agree with most of this without buying into the supernatural which you seem to have bought into with your "flesh in its eternal walk".

Let's stick with what can be known and stay away from what cannot be known.

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DL


I am sticking with what can be known. Almost every theory I have posited here has been proven as stands or adapted not very far from its formation to a much more cohesive piece similarly able to be proven by the collective information and evidence over time. I have been wrong as things have swayed my mind here and there and had me type silly things, but the overall of my work has not been swayed much. from flesh to flesh as it decays and returns its smallest particles back to a collective of particles that then goes through its own process, there is a shearing and letting go of what we are, the energy that then 'reincarnates' and this is beyond just simple meaningless and empty thought. It's not all that scientific since modern and popular science defies and denies any conversation along these lines and this one still isn't good enough for anyone, apparently, so they and you can fuck off. Fuck off ahead of time. Done.
Last edited by The Eternal Warrior on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:19 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:[ It's not all that scientific since modern and popular science defies and denies any conversation and this one still isn't good enough for anyone, apparently, so they and you can fuck off. Fuck off ahead of time. Done.


So think in a garbage supernatural way as you do, or fuck off, is your only argument.

Thanks for showing us your mind.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:42 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:[ It's not all that scientific since modern and popular science defies and denies any conversation and this one still isn't good enough for anyone, apparently, so they and you can fuck off. Fuck off ahead of time. Done.


So think in a garbage supernatural way as you do, or fuck off, is your only argument.

Thanks for showing us your mind.

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DL


Not a fucking problem, jackass.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:08 pm

Jeez guys....language. This is a family forum.

And some guy...you should just do better. You need to set higher standards for yourself if you're going to go around demanding people's respect. Surely not every exchange with you has to devolve into you throwing insults....
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

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Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Mr Reasonable » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:09 pm

I mean, it makes you look dumb, or at the very least lazy. Maybe both. You're not those things are you?
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:40 pm

Mr Reasonable wrote:I mean, it makes you look dumb, or at the very least lazy. Maybe both. You're not those things are you?


Keep talking to me like a child. Nobody has made THAT mistake, yet.

At least you could try to understand why I might have the right and every reason to be as rude and as crude as I've been.

But don't you dare look down your nose and start condescending me. people have been making that mistake since I was young.

Surely anybody with a brain could see where the conversation was like to go if I actually sat there and explained it in full. I, in fact, already explained enough in the short bit that I did to sate curiosity and the question itself. From there, the response gained from where I turned it only further confirmed where it was like to go had I gone through the motions of explaining it all out.

Not my first rodeo, not my first time on the non-official court stand, not my first time being hounded by the jackasses that be, and it's a good thing that there's a tongue-in-cheek part to what you said, though grossly overlaid with seriousness. Seriousness as if there hasn't been people ripping others to shreds with subtle insults and subtle attacks and making out as if my responses are unwarranted. If that was the case, and a family forum what a joke but even if it was... Why the fuck am I still here at that rate? Oh, right, because I back up everything I say with actual meat, actual evidence, actual creditable credible material. That's why. I exemplify philosophy, I exemplify reason, I exemplify everything I bring to the table and know what I talk about, otherwise why talk about it? Every time I open my mouth, even in swearing and cutting them down, I never once open it without just cause, without reason; not once have I opened it just to talk shit as so many others, yourself included, have done.

I am better and I will not be treated like shit, will not be treated like this. So, you can kiss it, you can lick the crack in it, watch me walk back down the miracle mile to the infinite mile through the green mile...

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:43 pm

Boo hoo. It is all about me. Boo hoo.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:50 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Boo hoo. It is all about me. Boo hoo.

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DL


Coming from someone who belongs to an 'I-Me-My' group consciousness.
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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:55 pm

Some Guy in History wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Boo hoo. It is all about me. Boo hoo.

Regards
DL


Coming from someone who belongs to an 'I-Me-My' group consciousness.


What the hell is that. If they want dues for membership, I guess they must have given me a membership free yet never let me know I was a member.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:58 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Some Guy in History wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Boo hoo. It is all about me. Boo hoo.

Regards
DL


Coming from someone who belongs to an 'I-Me-My' group consciousness.


What the hell is that. If they want dues for membership, I guess they must have given me a membership free yet never let me know I was a member.

Regards
DL


Your reply is evidence of the accuracy of what I said of you. It is trademark of their activities, their responses. Dare call me crazy? Care to see me unravel you right here in front of everybody? Shake you up to such degree as to make your emotional responses more evident and obvious? All you've got to do is say the word, give me the go-ahead. Continue.

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Re: The only savior man has is himself

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:04 pm

Oh my.

I cannot type I am shaking so badly out of fear. :oops:

I have a number of topics on the go. Go craze buddy if you think you have what it takes.

This one might be good if you think you have a winning hand.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=193075

The religious either ran from it or they just did not know how to refute what I put.

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