The only savior man has is himself

You do not find the visible or provable by never having anything to begin with.

As to faith.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, “God given” power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes their mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

What to you is that thinking of I Am - I think that the rest of it is I Am Who I Am Becoming.

This is what you said:
Let’s stick with what can be known and stay away from what cannot be known.

But this is just the point. Scientists and philosophers do not have that mindset. They will go about seeking until it is known or it has been confirmed that as of yet it cannot be known.
I think I must at least be partially right here. :-k Just my intuition.

Given by human evolution, consciousness, our own individual life journeys, the chemicals within our brains ~~ Everything in the Universe which gives us pause to be curious, to wonder, etc.

True. Beliefs can be both positive and negative and we love to believe that we know it all without question.

As for the first part, that has already become a contradiction in terms. If God is unknowable, how can we begin to know that a God works in mysterious ways.
As to the second part, I think we humans are just really contradictory in nature. Very often, we have no idea of what we are saying and we do not take the time to see if what we say is in harmony.

It may not be truth or Truth but is it necessarily lying if it is done in good faith?

What? So in a way, you are more like those above that you spoke of. That is your belief. What is it based on?

I wasn’t speaking of faith in the existence of God, for instance.
I was more speaking of the faith which a scientist would need to continue on with his or her work, hoping that something would come of it, would be made known.
I’m an agnostic.

Well, it’s a good thing that someone is trying to bring us all together to reason. :evilfun:

Although i do know what the word means… :evilfun:

It can equate to the dictionary definition of literalism: “adherence to the exact letter or the literal sense”, where literal means “in accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical”.

Unless I am not following you here, I don’t necessarily think that reason and logic are opposed to a discussion about God and the use of literal language. Belief IS though.

Yes, Faith used here is no more than embracing Belief.

Well, that might not necessarily be true. It just depends on how open both are toward one another and how they are willing to withhold judgment and just listen to one another’s views. Otherwise, you’re right I think.

I may be wrong here but in getting into the true meaning and message of myths, wouldn’t want also need to practice being literal ~~ to show what the real meaning COULD BE? Hmmm. :-k

[/quote]
Let’s not forget that perception is everything. Are you really going to show them how WRONG they are? Where does the conversation go then? :-k

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVsCMKQYu48[/youtube]

[/quote]
That depends on the listener and what he perceives.

If he perceives with this quote in mind, then all should be well. Most Christians do not know their bible that well though and their backs are usually up by the time I get to use it.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

It also depends if they can do this or not.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

That is a hard go when I am dealing with a theist that says he loves his genocidal son murdering God.

Once ones moral are that far down the scale, it is hard to bring him back.

Regards
DL

Don’t get it twisted, God does love his Genocide.

She’s not your everyday beautiful
she’s a fire burning in Hell’s Inferno
Demon-born to God-found
she’s got balls so big they drag along the ground

Genocide is her nickname
and killing is her favorite game
killing the ignorant slobs
pandering to a system she once hated
and so found herself fated
to go from failed project to Iron Maiden

Through Catholocism; wicca
touch her and she’ll prick ya
her demon-son riding shotgun
in her body through a time-twisted life of hated fun
and in the heat of Hell’s Kitchen
she threw down hard even as the King came dominatin

Thought she, herself, I must be evil
only to find a twist on that title
It felt right, as they, side by side
ran the gauntlet, the eternal fight
never knew she the enemy that he
she thought he ought to be
for never knowing him, found him a fellow warrior
shedding illusions that had been far beyond her

Shivers ran down her side; Genocide
as she slowly woke up to realize…

He loved her, or so it seemed
though twisted channels helped hide
the truth of it behind the Hunger Game scene
But he grabbed her up and didn’t let go
said, ‘you’re coming with me,
for that very first look I remember you giving’

Was it a romance or a twisted game of depravity?
said he softly: ‘it’s why I hate even their complexity
for shredding to pieces hearts’ fond simplicity
I could sum it all up with reason, but not without
too many words given, time spent
in a fucked-off creation
to which we are all partly to blame.
I admit,’ continued he, 'I am quite cold and heartless
But I keep going with the love
until it wraps me up again and wakes me back up

Your paranoia plays one hell of a round
but it’s just another pussy to pound
and part of my heartlessness is in case you’re playing Me
ain’t nothing in this eternity for free’

Genocide is her nickname
and she’s God’s favorite playmate

from children to grown adults
to eternity beyond eternities, through scars and insults
still taking on the eternal legion
still driving all life into oblivion
and back through the emptiness
through the depths of the great abyss
laughing and sharing the glory
of ultimate revenge, vengeance, making history

A dead beat dad is the same as a good dad only in the manner which the spirit of parentige is considered. If the spirit in which parentige is concidered in good faith, then regardless of the out come, the dad was good. That he may have failed, due to external, unknown reasons, he may be considered a bad in that regard, only, if, his straying away was not an intentional act.

A good dad in all respects , or a bad one, has no absolute bearing on each other, only relatively speaking.

The only judge that can be said to have an absolute opinion is the baby, whose judgement on parenthood is based on the primary aspects of judgement: dad is good, if he is here, bad when he isn’t. This type of baby thinking is mostly associated with good/bad mother, but I suppose, in absence of mother, father could also take on this aspect of baby cognition.

Some guy, get back on your meds you weirdo.

Sorry buddy.

I could not make sense out of what you put.

Regards
DL

I feel sorry that for all of this, you two and so many others have been what you called me in terms of weak, pussy, lame. Through it all, you’ve been the ones with impulse control problems that you refuse to work on and remedy. Your insecurities and inadequacies are far less than what I waded through and yet there you all still remain in yours. A pity that you all never really had to try at anything.

^^

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Regards
DL

Now say something that is actually true and not just an insult cleverly disguised as truth.

My reply is the same one I gave you on that other O.P.

Regards
DL

Yeah, oh well. I guess I really should have listened to people years ago when they told me people like you weren’t worth wasting my time on. I actually thought I could make a difference. I see now what they meant by stupid childish ideals. If I had just given them up and gave in, I could have had a job and a family, everything I wanted in life. I guess it makes sense that I’m a homeless drug addict with delusions of grandeur, spouting insanities as if they actually meant anything. I guess I just couldn’t see what they were saying at the time. All my ‘greatest works’ amounted to was a bunch of work on my self involving violence against others, rage, countless insults against those smarter than me for seeing so clearly what I couldn’t while I tried to feed them what I believed to be important. I think it was even stupider of me to expect to benefit from such garbage, too.

It’s all good, though, I’m so insane that I believe the possibility of my entire existence in eternity being fucked up. And they can’t even prove that reincarnation exists. I’m not right in the head, man. Talking about so many things that don’t exist. Getting so fired up as if… ya know, it’s the drugs. I get carried away like this these days. I should have tried forcing myself to come up with the real wisdom that you and others perform. It tears mine right to pieces.

It turns out that I am way better at sarcasm than a lot of you.

Which man are you talking about? Is he capable of all that by his lonesome?

A saviour is only someone who brings men together.

Reincarnation? Pffft.

Hebrews 6 King James Version; 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Regards
DL

Instead of arguing with me, you could just have had a conversation along the lines of what I said. What do I care what the bible or the religions say? There have been many incarnations and reincarnations of the bible alone, in Catholicism and Christianity both, let alone the other religious sects falling into the apostasy defined by prophecy and scripture. What do I care what they say when the truth of life and existence is written into each particle of every molecule, cell and atom in existence? How can reincarnation be questioned at all at the point where it has just been reasonable and rationally pointed out that the bible and religion both have reincarnated and did not do so without the hands of others? That right there shreds right through your questioning and probing to describe exactly the process of reincarnation at the same time as provide proof that it exists at least in the capacity shown.

If you are put new definitions to known and well defined words, you can make up any definition for anything to prove your point.

You win this one buddy.

Regards
DL

But I’m not making up definitions. And I’m not putting new definitions to well-defined words. If you consider well-defined to be the word bible defined as being a book filled with words of the Holy Word of a deity passed through the hands and mouths of man, yet know yourself to be deceitful, know yourself and the games you yourself play, then you, as well, make up definitions to prove your point; grounded in stupidity; on anything. It defies the term of ‘well-defined’. Simple one liners don’t sit there and break this down. It does not stop being true, does not stop being able to express itself and explain itself in infinite varying multitude beyond your faulty and short-sighted, dim views.

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL