When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatur

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When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatur

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:18 pm

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:48 am

There are two dominant forces of reason driven from different parts of the brain, i.e.

1. Primal or Pure reason
2. Cortical based reason

What drives humans to the supernatural and reify it is are the forces of the primal, raw and pure reason driven from the basement of the mind, i.e. the primal brain we share with reptiles and animals. Note Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.

The forces of the primal and pure reason are highly independent and are very dominant [being first to develop 4 billion years head start] and thus will override the impulses of the cortical reasons [6 million years?] as and when nature dictates.

The rationality we often refer to is driven by neurons in the cortical parts of the brain, i.e. those neurons in the forehead. This faculty of cortical reason is relatively very new thus weak and easily dominated by the primal or pure reason.
Therefore even if the faculty of cortical based reason has reached the 'age of reason' there is no certainty it can suppress the urge for the supernatural and its reifications.

What is needed is for cortical based reason faculty to send signals to develop inhibitors [like brakes and dams] to inhibit, control and modulate the impulses of the primal reasons optimally for the well being of the individual[s] and therefrom humanity.
These inhibitors and modulators must be developed to be strong enough to control and modulate the forces of the primal reason and then it will be able to reject the supernaturals when their cons are reasoned to be more than its cons.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:52 pm

Prismatic567

I cannot agree with your view.

If it was true, we would not have about 1/4 of us who are free thinkers with the other 3/4 calling themselves believers in the supernatural.

Those numbers are not accurate in the sense that many who claim affiliation to an idol worshiping religion, like 95 b% of Fins who claim to be Christian, only have about 4 % who actually go into a church even once a year.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Prismatic567 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:13 am

Greatest I am wrote:Prismatic567

I cannot agree with your view.

If it was true, we would not have about 1/4 of us who are free thinkers with the other 3/4 calling themselves believers in the supernatural.

Those numbers are not accurate in the sense that many who claim affiliation to an idol worshiping religion, like 95 b% of Fins who claim to be Christian, only have about 4 % who actually go into a church even once a year.

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DL
Believing in the supernatural is a matter of degrees from high to low. It is true less people are going to church/temples but that do not mean they have totally given up believing in the existence of a God in various degrees and as an insurance.

However there is a growing trend of freethinkers and non-theists since the last 500 years. This is an indication there is development of stronger inhibitors over the last 500 years. What is needed is for humanity to expedite this process given the growing threat of evils and violence coming up from especially one religion, i.e. Islam.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:52 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Prismatic567

I cannot agree with your view.

If it was true, we would not have about 1/4 of us who are free thinkers with the other 3/4 calling themselves believers in the supernatural.

Those numbers are not accurate in the sense that many who claim affiliation to an idol worshiping religion, like 95 b% of Fins who claim to be Christian, only have about 4 % who actually go into a church even once a year.

Regards
DL
Believing in the supernatural is a matter of degrees from high to low. It is true less people are going to church/temples but that do not mean they have totally given up believing in the existence of a God in various degrees and as an insurance.

However there is a growing trend of freethinkers and non-theists since the last 500 years. This is an indication there is development of stronger inhibitors over the last 500 years. What is needed is for humanity to expedite this process given the growing threat of evils and violence coming up from especially one religion, i.e. Islam.


+ 1

I think that the reason that governments have not called for a revue of the worth of Islam, is that Muslims would justifiably demand that other religions also be judged and Western governments do not want Christianity, another immoral creed be judge to be little better than Islam.

Muslims would rightly see us as hypocrites if all religions did not come under scrutiny.

The Noble Lie that religions are worthy and moral must be repealed and governments do not want to admit that we should have freedom from religion more than freedom of immoral religions.

The majority must recognize it's hypocrisy but they are not ready.

As to your "Believing in the supernatural is a matter of degrees from high to low."

I agree that there are varying levels of delusion but trying to measure the depth of a delusional persons thinking is likely impossible.

Yours word are like saying, someone is just a little crazy.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:14 am

Greatest I am wrote:I think that the reason that governments have not called for a revue of the worth of Islam, is that Muslims would justifiably demand that other religions also be judged and Western governments do not want Christianity, another immoral creed be judge to be little better than Islam.

Muslims would rightly see us as hypocrites if all religions did not come under scrutiny.

The Noble Lie that religions are worthy and moral must be repealed and governments do not want to admit that we should have freedom from religion more than freedom of immoral religions.

The majority must recognize it's hypocrisy but they are not ready.
Yes, I agree one serious problem is with the majority.
But I believe we can still highlight Islam is a distinctively significant serious problem that is different from the rest and thus need to be exposed.

As to your "Believing in the supernatural is a matter of degrees from high to low."
I agree that there are varying levels of delusion but trying to measure the depth of a delusional persons thinking is likely impossible.
Yours word are like saying, someone is just a little crazy.
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DL
I don't have real statistics based on any serious research.
But from wide readings, observations, analysis and applying various principles of human nature it is possible to deduce some rough degrees.

One critical principle is that of the Bell Curve which is effective for large population like 7+ billion humans.

Image

From the Bell Curve one can infer most human variables are distributed from high to low in terms of degrees.
Therefore it is very likely 'believing in the supernatural' would conform to this principle.

From over the ages till the present,
the supernatural is believed in terms of natural objects [low degrees] to the present concept of monotheism, deism [high degree].

In most of the Eastern Religions, they adjust their doctrines of the supernatural to cater to those who are in the Kindergarten to PhD levels.

Having done wide readings, observations, analysis and applying various principles of human nature, I believe my hypothesis re rough degrees in the supernatural is very likely to be true.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:49 am

No, I will control the supernatural. :evilfun: Reason is great for the elementary, but it's like a lead weight carried whilst trekking into the unknown. To push a mind outside of its comfort zone, reason has to be waylaid, left behind, to free the mind's will towards new potential, possibilities.

Reason is a boring lover.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:40 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:[

Having done wide readings, observations, analysis and applying various principles of human nature, I believe my hypothesis re rough degrees in the supernatural is very likely to be true.


I have basically agree with this but maintain that it is impossible to quantify.

I E. Does belief in Leprechauns make someone more or less delusional that a belief in ghosts?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:44 pm

WendyDarling wrote:No, I will control the supernatural. :evilfun: Reason is great for the elementary, but it's like a lead weight carried whilst trekking into the unknown. To push a mind outside of its comfort zone, reason has to be waylaid, left behind, to free the mind's will towards new potential, possibilities.

Reason is a boring lover.


True, but reason has all the parts that make love possible, --- while faith only has empty air that does nothing to tickle the love organs.

Reason takes two while faith has one loving alone.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:52 am

Greatest I am wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:No, I will control the supernatural. :evilfun: Reason is great for the elementary, but it's like a lead weight carried whilst trekking into the unknown. To push a mind outside of its comfort zone, reason has to be waylaid, left behind, to free the mind's will towards new potential, possibilities.

Reason is a boring lover.


True, but reason has all the parts that make love possible, --- while faith only has empty air that does nothing to tickle the love organs.

Reason takes two while faith has one loving alone.

Regards
DL


Hmmm? :-k Reason is not a matter of truth as much as it is a matter of perspective oriented "trues." Faith involves two, one being God and another being human. While the air may appear empty, music still fills it and tickles all sorts of love organs. :evilfun: And reason is still a boring lover. :-"
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Prismatic567 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:44 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:[

Having done wide readings, observations, analysis and applying various principles of human nature, I believe my hypothesis re rough degrees in the supernatural is very likely to be true.

I have basically agree with this but maintain that it is impossible to quantify.
I E. Does belief in Leprechauns make someone more or less delusional that a belief in ghosts?
Regards
DL
There various types of illusions;

Illusion:
1. a thing that is or is likely to be wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses.
"the illusion makes parallel lines seem to diverge by placing them on a zigzag-striped background"
synonyms: mirage, hallucination, apparition, figment of the imagination, trick of the light, trompe l'oeil; More

2. a deceptive appearance or impression.
"the illusion of family togetherness"
synonyms: appearance, impression, semblance; More

3. a false idea or belief.
"he had no illusions about the trouble she was in"
synonyms: delusion, misapprehension, misconception, false impression; More


In this case, the closer the illusion is related to empirical reality the lesser the delusion.
For example a person who believe in a mirage is real, that is a lesser degree of illusion or delusion because the illusion can easily be proven.

Thus the degree of illusion increases as the thing of the illusion move away from empirical reality possibility to impossibility. If a person believed in an apparition or ghost that is human like, the delusion would be of lesser degree.
Believing in a leprechuan [no likeness empirically] would be more delusional that something that is exactly human like [old man with a beard, long hair women, etc.]

As we move from empirical related things to merely mental concepts and ideas, then the degree of illusion increases. To believe a square-circle [contradiction] and human who can fly with own power would be highly delusional.
A belief in a God [illusory] is also highly delusional despite that 80-90% of humans do that.

Another factor to determine delusional is related to how insistent, emotional and persistent the person belief in the illusory thing.

If we are to put the above on paper and analyze it systematically we can roughly arrive at some sort of objective analysis in terms of degrees of delusion.
For example how it is possible for an organizer to rate beauty objectively as in Miss Universe and it is somehow accepted by many? It is possible because it is highly qualified to a set of criteria.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:49 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:No, I will control the supernatural. :evilfun: Reason is great for the elementary, but it's like a lead weight carried whilst trekking into the unknown. To push a mind outside of its comfort zone, reason has to be waylaid, left behind, to free the mind's will towards new potential, possibilities.

Reason is a boring lover.


True, but reason has all the parts that make love possible, --- while faith only has empty air that does nothing to tickle the love organs.

Reason takes two while faith has one loving alone.

Regards
DL


Hmmm? :-k Reason is not a matter of truth as much as it is a matter of perspective oriented "trues." Faith involves two, one being God and another being human. While the air may appear empty, music still fills it and tickles all sorts of love organs. :evilfun: And reason is still a boring lover. :-"


Love is all about sensation, interaction and sharing. Love can only be between two who, as Jesus said, recognize each other by works and deeds. Just look at your own love relationships to confirm this.

You thus cannot love a God that is not around to love you back with the expressions of love which are works and deeds.

I guess you were too busy trying to find the right emoticon to bother thinking of your own life experience.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:01 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Prismatic567 wrote:[

Having done wide readings, observations, analysis and applying various principles of human nature, I believe my hypothesis re rough degrees in the supernatural is very likely to be true.

I have basically agree with this but maintain that it is impossible to quantify.
I E. Does belief in Leprechauns make someone more or less delusional that a belief in ghosts?
Regards
DL
There various types of illusions;

Illusion:
1. a thing that is or is likely to be wrongly perceived or interpreted by the senses.
"the illusion makes parallel lines seem to diverge by placing them on a zigzag-striped background"
synonyms: mirage, hallucination, apparition, figment of the imagination, trick of the light, trompe l'oeil; More

2. a deceptive appearance or impression.
"the illusion of family togetherness"
synonyms: appearance, impression, semblance; More

3. a false idea or belief.
"he had no illusions about the trouble she was in"
synonyms: delusion, misapprehension, misconception, false impression; More


In this case, the closer the illusion is related to empirical reality the lesser the delusion.
For example a person who believe in a mirage is real, that is a lesser degree of illusion or delusion because the illusion can easily be proven.

Thus the degree of illusion increases as the thing of the illusion move away from empirical reality possibility to impossibility. If a person believed in an apparition or ghost that is human like, the delusion would be of lesser degree.
Believing in a leprechuan [no likeness empirically] would be more delusional that something that is exactly human like [old man with a beard, long hair women, etc.]

As we move from empirical related things to merely mental concepts and ideas, then the degree of illusion increases. To believe a square-circle [contradiction] and human who can fly with own power would be highly delusional.
A belief in a God [illusory] is also highly delusional despite that 80-90% of humans do that.

Another factor to determine delusional is related to how insistent, emotional and persistent the person belief in the illusory thing.

If we are to put the above on paper and analyze it systematically we can roughly arrive at some sort of objective analysis in terms of degrees of delusion.
For example how it is possible for an organizer to rate beauty objectively as in Miss Universe and it is somehow accepted by many? It is possible because it is highly qualified to a set of criteria.


Well put. I concede, damn it, that there are levels of delusion.

I also agree that religious believers in the supernatural are highly delusional.

I will not argue against you on that as you seem to have given these issues some thought.

Given the damage religions and their adherents do, how can we help our friends and neighbors recognize their delusional thinking and help them return to reality when they dig in even more when we tell them the truth of their delusional thinking?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Why this emoticon hatred? :lol:

As for Gods works and deeds, they are neverending connections between the animate objects and inanimate objects we call existence, but also our consciousness is directly linked to that of God's in that he transferred his spark to create our fires.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:24 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Why this emoticon hatred? :lol:

As for Gods works and deeds, they are neverending connections between the animate objects and inanimate objects we call existence, but also our consciousness is directly linked to that of God's in that he transferred his spark to create our fires.


Thanks for showing your delusional thinking, but let's say I believe you.

If your consciousness is connected to God's, linked is the word you used, ask your version of God why he always kills when he could cure just as easily.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:28 pm

Living is learning, so is dying.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:07 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Living is learning, so is dying.


Nice that I drove you to speechlessness and an inane reply.

An intelligent person would have just recanted.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby phyllo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:27 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Living is learning, so is dying.


Nice that I drove you to speechlessness and an inane reply.

An intelligent person would have just recanted.

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DL
Actually, it was a reasonable and intelligent reply to your post.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:32 pm

phyllo wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Living is learning, so is dying.


Nice that I drove you to speechlessness and an inane reply.

An intelligent person would have just recanted.

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DL
Actually, it was a reasonable and intelligent reply to your post.


Really?

Tell me then what a person learns from dying.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby phyllo » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:49 pm

To evaluate well. To not take life for granted. To set priorities. To not waste time.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:59 pm

Thanks Phyllo! :wink:

[Edit: Erased some taunts against OP. Being mean detracts from a woman's bust size. :evilfun: :lol: ]
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:13 pm

When one reaches the age of reason it's not so much a rejection of the supernatural as it is becoming a victim of the overwhelmingly prevalent, pervasive forces in play ... ergo ... getting on your hands and knees to crawl and lick the footprints of the rich ... more politely ... start a lifetime journey in the pursuit of prosperity.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:18 am

phyllo wrote:To evaluate well. To not take life for granted. To set priorities. To not waste time.


A live mind might absorb that but not a dead one.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:21 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:When one reaches the age of reason it's not so much a rejection of the supernatural as it is becoming a victim of the overwhelmingly prevalent, pervasive forces in play ... ergo ... getting on your hands and knees to crawl and lick the footprints of the rich ... more politely ... start a lifetime journey in the pursuit of prosperity.


Self subjugation of mind and body.

That was not my experience.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supern

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:47 am

Greatest I am wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:When one reaches the age of reason it's not so much a rejection of the supernatural as it is becoming a victim of the overwhelmingly prevalent, pervasive forces in play ... ergo ... getting on your hands and knees to crawl and lick the footprints of the rich ... more politely ... start a lifetime journey in the pursuit of prosperity.


Self subjugation of mind and body.

That was not my experience.

Regards
DL



you never went to school??
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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