A greater accomplishment?

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A greater accomplishment?

Postby Mutcer » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:18 pm

It has been considered that the greatest accomplishment would be an existent god creating the universe. If an existent god creating the universe is a great accomplishment, would it not follow that a non-existent god creating the universe is an even greater accomplishment?

I vaguely remember hearing this being discussed on a podcast and figured there may be some folks in here who have some more details.
In the event of an impending catastrophe, only a coward would sit back and do nothing if given the power to do anything.

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Re: A greater accomplishment?

Postby Meno_ » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:51 pm

Mutcer wrote:It has been considered that the greatest accomplishment would be an existent god creating the universe. If an existent god creating the universe is a great accomplishment, would it not follow that a non-existent god creating the universe is an even greater accomplishment?

I vaguely remember hearing this being discussed on
a podcast and figured there may be some folks in
here who have some more details.


But what of a god who can not be understood in terms of existence? If existence is defined as a manifestation, and a manifestation is a revelation only to those who have a capacity to understand it ,
then what's so strange about denying a God, who cannot 'come through'?

To god, existence and non existence may not be predicates. He is the predicated ideal of the reason for being.Otherwise, there is no point to it all, and it would have not started in the first place, and no object to it either. It would have been a senseless enterprise in the first place.

If you do not believe that, then, may as well fold it up now, let nuclear war begin asap, let all the innocents burn with those who simply don't care, and get it over, already. Life is simply a bore and a pain in the you know what, anyway.
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Re: A greater accomplishment?

Postby Mutcer » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:29 pm

Here it is in more detail. It is called Gasking's Ontological argument for the non-existence of God.

1. The creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement imaginable.
2. The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
3. The greater the disability or handicap of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
4. The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
5. Therefore, if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator, we can conceive a greater being—namely, one who created everything while not existing.
6. An existing God, therefore, would not be a being than which a greater cannot be conceived, because an even more formidable and incredible creator would be a God which did not exist.
7. (Hence) God does not exist.
In the event of an impending catastrophe, only a coward would sit back and do nothing if given the power to do anything.

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Re: A greater accomplishment?

Postby Prismatic567 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:52 am

When the concept of 'creator' for the universe is introduced, one has already lost half the battle. In this case one is ceding a 50% possibility to the theists, then one has to disprove that possibility.

I prefer to argue it is 100% [or 99.99999%] certain it is impossible for a God to exists in reality.
The idea of a God is raised as security blanket from a psychological state of primal fears.
see my post re;
Re: The fear of death is innate.
viewtopic.php?p=2665000#p2665000
I am not going into the details of this argument as it is off topic.

Another point is humans are co-creators of 'what is so-called "created" i.e. the Universe. There is no absolutely independent God [or any Absolute] that created the universe and sustaining it. Again this is another complex argument.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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