## Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

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### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

sorry, but that's a hypothetical situation without a good answer. It's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop.

The world will never know because that's not how it played out.

If you refuse to learn what I teach, then what more could I ever do to teach you any damn thing? At that point, you as a student fail yourself AND your teacher by refusing to learn and then furthermore by learning the wrong things for your own self gain, seeing the right, but refusing to admit it and the truth of it is written in your every action; you can't be so blind as not to see it. It is so obvious. And when the student fails them self in such a manner, they no longer have any right at all to blame or fault the teacher.

Some Guy in History
Philosopher

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### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

Some Guy in History

sorry, but that's a hypothetical situation without a good answer. It's like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop.

The world will never know because that's not how it played out.

At that point, you as a student fail yourself AND your teacher by refusing to learn and then furthermore by learning the wrong things for your own self gain, seeing the right, but refusing to admit it and the truth of it is written in your every action; you can't be so blind as not to see it. It is so obvious. And when the student fails them self in such a manner, they no longer have any right at all to blame or fault the teacher.

I don't think that the tootsie roll pop is a very good analogy. I was simply asking you how YOU would respond to your own statement. The former is random, the latter can be more concrete though not absolute.

I am sure that there are many books at least some that are entitled "The hypothesis of this or the hypothesis of that. For instance, the Hypothesis of Happiness. There could actually be a great number of "good answers" and discussions brought about by these books though perhaps nothing definitive. But is philosophy actually about the definitive.
I was simply asking you how you would choose to respond to your response.

But I don't think that any good teacher simply gives the lesson...utters words. He/she also explains why they feel that way and they give examples of it.

If you refuse to learn what I teach, then what more could I ever do to teach you any damn thing

At this point, I am questioning WHAT IT IS that you believe you have taught me. Constructive criticism itself does have a focal point to it, doesn't it? and yours was not so constructive at the start.

You pointed out to me that my response shuts down further discussion (paraphrasing of course). You haven't shown me HOW or WHY and I personally still think that there could be responses to what I said.

and the truth of it is written in your every action;

You can't point that out to me unless you point out to me the error of my ways, at least from your point of view.

How difficult can it be for you to show me what you feel I "ought to" have said? considering what you did say. You must have had an "ought" in there somewhere.

And when the student fails them self in such a manner, they no longer have any right at all to blame or fault the teacher.
[/quote]

Oh, I don't think in terms of my having failed myself. On the contrary, I was inquisitive and was asking WHY. I was looking for clarification or insight.
I was looking for your "more concrete" point of view ~~ how YOU might have answered your statement. I know that I'm getting redundant here.

The student may blame the teacher if the teacher does not follow through on the right kind of instructions and if the teacher is not so clear.
The student may blame himself if he doesn't ask questions. But what is he to do if the teacher is such an absolutist. He is doomed to fail.
SAPERE AUDE!

If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.

What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel

I learn as I write!

Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker

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Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm

### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

I don't presume to know any specific thing I've taught you in terms of what you've made applicable to your own life, but I can tell you a decent list of possible things I've taught you along with everyone else here since I began posting on these boards based on the possibility of the things you read that I posited or posted and since I can't claim to know specifics there, yet again, it becomes so much a matter that you've gained something from it all, otherwise why the continued interaction?

There are too many different ways to teach beyond what we are taught of teachers and teaching as we look around us, so what I'm mostly teaching is 'perspectivism' and changing perceptions to embrace and look through various perceptions and perspectives; to enjoy an experience as a new experience if you can't enjoy it for what it might be and try to find the catalyst in every action and reaction instead of just the bad and the good and to see it as a jumping stone to the next step. I teach how to turn victims and products of their environment into survivors and crafters of their environment.

I teach everything. What you learn is up to you and whatever else gives you a choice or not and depending on your own personal experiences and perspectives, you see things I don't and see things others don't and those others see things we don't and for all of the close-mouthed nature of the group for all the skeletons in the closet and the verbal hurdles to avoid do avoid the greater risk to run that gauntlet, and yet somehow it's all coming together through twisted and untwisted routes. I find that my unintentional self-centered perception makes it impossible to truly grasp 100% of the time what others experience their 100% of the time while I'm moving on and memories of my past are just that, memories. Am I capable of sympathy in one given moment only to seem cold when I can't seem to muster it at another? Does that sound emotional; it shouldn't.

Things fuck with things for the sake of drama and entertainment; so I teach how to give a better entertainment in the process. And, it's the same entertainment, I'm just the host of hosts and the centerstage centerpiece, jester in clown-suit complete.

What more is there to be said? Let's say it. Let's hash it all out again and again; let's fight in ever-increasing circles of the same old thing as we push beyond the set patterns. Mixed martial arts of the mind and soul, all of existence, all of creation, all of art from the art of art to the art of war, from crafting buildings to crafting blueprints of destruction, tools of surgery become the implements of torture. What experiences are you missing? By the time your lives are over, you'll experience a lot, no doubt. All I'm saying is that I paid attention to that; that is my thing, what I notice; close enough to the skin to throw you off. Choice or no choice, to see what goes on in others minds without even trying, just by reading body language and understanding it. And, isn't it funny that that same body language is just a huge amount of tiny things moving and calling out what's going on? It's interesting to think that this goes on all over and yet so many don't see it simply because their own self and their own manipulations get in the way. They see the twisted version of things and thus can't truly imagine a conversation with someone beyond the need for the insecurities of ego, pride and vanity to the degree where they become what religions know of as 'sin'. The duality of everything must dictate that there is a healthy version of these things, a right way to exercise them. And nobody is truly expecting others to be perfect, that's ridiculous. They're shell-shocked by their own experiences, ptsd, victims of trauma and avoiding the truth. And then the truth is that healed of that, there's still the eternal war and song and dance constantly and continuously shifting and turning and we all have to get back up and fight again, that this is what we do, that this is not just how it's done, not just cycles and patterns, but psychology, true and tried; tested emotion to logical limits and beyond only to understand a complexity of psychology on a mass-consciousness level.

And, beyond teaching, this is the war I've been fighting; my charlie foxtrot that others step into; my battlefield. Finding the order in what others would call chaos and knowing it for what it is as I walk through it, every second of my life with one of my mental eyes caught eternally in a staring contest with death, another on life itself, staring it dead in the eye and getting back up even when I don't feel like it and by the end of every day, get back in swing. And if that sounds like something so simple that everyone does it, imagine drowning in what everyone else thought was a shallow pond that in your own perception was the vastest of oceans and that such a simple thing for so many others has been somes most epic victory of a truly epic fight. And, if that shit puts others to shame, not a damn thing I can do about it and isn't that just teaching others if they get past the envy and jealousy? Hit'em a couple times until they work properly?

Some Guy in History
Philosopher

Posts: 2259
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 am

### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

Months ago, I wrote "Shadows On The Wall". I was standing outside of my workplace and I noticed a weather beaten wall. On the wall, I "saw" the image of a man with his arms held out invitingly. God spoke to me for the world, as he often does. The human and many other species who interact with humans have brains that are hotwired to pick out the face from the rest of the body. For humans that aids in socialization. The chest, arms and legs do most of the movement, yet babies look for the person's face. When humans look at a conglomerate image, the first instinct is to make it into a face if at all reasonable. I can make a conglomerate of dots, and a human will see a face if a face is anything near reasonable.
The children of god are hotwired to see God's movement in what the earthly man sees as chance and coincidence. I am desperate and someone comes and gives me 5$or I find it. Earthly man discounts that activity as chance or coincidence. The children of God see God. The earthly man is missing a faculty like vision or hearing. He cannot see the God that is so obvious to me. Silentsage March 2017 Look for John Walker on Facebook. On Facebook, John Walker is the picture of a black man in a martial arts pose. If your nature is to seek the truth, God has given me answers to questions people and Christians do not think to ask Silentsage Posts: 2 Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:37 pm ### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness? Some Guy in History I don't presume to know any specific thing I've taught you in terms of what you've made applicable to your own life, but I can tell you a decent list of possible things I've taught you along with everyone else here since I began posting on these boards based on the possibility of the things you read that I posited or posted and since I can't claim to know specifics there, yet again, it becomes so much a matter that you've gained something from it all, otherwise why the continued interaction? Ah, okay. I was more zoned in on the above post where you did not answer my question of how you would have answered your own question. I didn't realize that you were speaking of everything that you have posted ~ that i might have gained knowledge from. There are too many different ways to teach beyond what we are taught of teachers and teaching as we look around us, so what I'm mostly teaching is 'perspectivism' and changing perceptions to embrace and look through various perceptions and perspectives; I may be wrong here but I tend to think of myself as a perspectivist or at least I try. I like to see different perspectives but I also realize that I have some biases. I realize that the more information or light that is shed on a subject the better equipped we can be to form legitimate thoughts or opinions. to enjoy an experience as a new experience if you can't enjoy it for what it might be Maybe I'm not understanding you here but for me that would depend on what the new experience is as not all experiences are enjoyable ones, right? As for the second half of that, I tend to agree. That would be called living in the present moment without having expectations either way. As humans, that is not such an easy thing to do but it is a more reasonable thing to do and it can be more fun since we're not falling into the trap of complicating the joyful experience with future expectations. If that made sense. and try to find the catalyst in every action and reaction instead of just the bad and the good and to see it as a jumping stone to the next step. The catalyst or the "trigger". We have formed and unconscious patterns so I can agree with this. This is where honest reflection without pre-judgment comes in ~ just observations. If we can see "what brought us to this place" we can avoid the mistake next time around, hopefully. I teach how to turn victims and products of their environment into survivors and crafters of their environment. What would be your first step in doing this? I'm not being facetious here. I teach everything. What you learn is up to you and whatever else gives you a choice or not I think that sometimes what people tend to learn is what they intuit has been somewhere waiting in the wings - what they are ready to learn but that's just my perception. and depending on your own personal experiences and perspectives, you see things I don't and see things others don't and those others see things we don't Exactly. We all see with different eyes of perception depending on where we have come from. This is where the difficulty comes in when we don't try to rise above our "own" seeing into realizing that we are products of our own environment and changing that. It's not so easy letting go of beliefs and our old ways of thinking. I find that my unintentional self-centered perception makes it impossible to truly grasp 100% of the time what others experience their 100% of the time while I'm moving on and memories of my past are just that, memories. No one can grasp 100% of the time of everything or even close to that. I don't think that we are capable of experiencing what others have experienced unless "we ourselves have been there". But there is such a thing as trying to understand... or in a sense "going under" where we ourselves stand in order to see more. Am I capable of sympathy in one given moment only to seem cold when I can't seem to muster it at another? Does that sound emotional; it shouldn't. It hardly sounds emotional to me. It's just a question seeking an answer though there are some questions which can lead us down an emotional path. Being human, that can't be avoided. But if we're looking for honest answers or resolutions, the emotional part is less than the part seeking the real answers or resolutions though there may not be answers. What experiences are you missing? By the time your lives are over, you'll experience a lot, no doubt. All I'm saying is that I paid attention to that; that is my thing, what I notice; close enough to the skin to throw you off. Choice or no choice, to see what goes on in others minds without even trying, just by reading body language and understanding it. And, isn't it funny that that same body language is just a huge amount of tiny things moving and calling out what's going on? It's interesting to think that this goes on all over and yet so many don't see it simply because their own self and their own manipulations get in the way. They see the twisted version of things and thus can't truly imagine a conversation with someone beyond the need for the insecurities of ego, pride and vanity to the degree where they become what religions know of as 'sin'. The duality of everything must dictate that there is a healthy version of these things, a right way to exercise them. And nobody is truly expecting others to be perfect, that's ridiculous. They're shell-shocked by their own experiences, ptsd, victims of trauma and avoiding the truth. And then the truth is that healed of that, there's still the eternal war and song and dance constantly and continuously shifting and turning and we all have to get back up and fight again, that this is what we do, that this is not just how it's done, not just cycles and patterns, but psychology, true and tried; tested emotion to logical limits and beyond only to understand a complexity of psychology on a mass-consciousness level. And, beyond teaching, this is the war I've been fighting; my charlie foxtrot that others step into; my battlefield. Finding the order in what others would call chaos and knowing it for what it is as I walk through it, every second of my life with one of my mental eyes caught eternally in a staring contest with death, another on life itself, staring it dead in the eye and getting back up even when I don't feel like it and by the end of every day, get back in swing. And if that sounds like something so simple that everyone does it, imagine drowning in what everyone else thought was a shallow pond that in your own perception was the vastest of oceans and that such a simple thing for so many others has been somes most epic victory of a truly epic fight. And, if that shit puts others to shame, not a damn thing I can do about it and isn't that just teaching others if they get past the envy and jealousy? Hit'em a couple times until they work properly? I read both of these. Much room for thought there. Thank you. I think that Kierkegaard and "Fyodor" would greatly enjoy you. SAPERE AUDE! If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped. What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs. Thomas Nagel I learn as I write! Arcturus Descending Consciousness Seeker Posts: 14445 Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm ### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness? I teach how to turn victims and products of their environment into survivors and crafters of their environment. What would be your first step in doing this? I'm not being facetious here. I was conceived in the womb. My literal first step. Some Guy in History Philosopher Posts: 2259 Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 am ### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness? Recently approved post. Silentsage wrote:Months ago, I wrote "Shadows On The Wall". I was standing outside of my workplace and I noticed a weather beaten wall. On the wall, I "saw" the image of a man with his arms held out invitingly. God spoke to me for the world, as he often does. The human and many other species who interact with humans have brains that are hotwired to pick out the face from the rest of the body. For humans that aids in socialization. The chest, arms and legs do most of the movement, yet babies look for the person's face. When humans look at a conglomerate image, the first instinct is to make it into a face if at all reasonable. I can make a conglomerate of dots, and a human will see a face if a face is anything near reasonable. The children of god are hotwired to see God's movement in what the earthly man sees as chance and coincidence. I am desperate and someone comes and gives me 5$ or I find it. Earthly man discounts that activity as chance or coincidence. The children of God see God. The earthly man is missing a faculty like vision or hearing. He cannot see the God that is so obvious to me.

Silentsage
March 2017

Look for John Walker on Facebook. On Facebook, John Walker is the picture of a black man in a martial arts pose. If your nature is to seek the truth, God has given me answers to questions people and Christians do not think to ask

MagsJ
The Londonist

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### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

Some Guy in History wrote:
I teach how to turn victims and products of their environment into survivors and crafters of their environment.

What would be your first step in doing this? I'm not being facetious here.

I was conceived in the womb. My literal first step.

Figuratively speaking, that wouldn't be Your first step ~ it would have been your parents' first step.

Anyway, I didn't expect you to go back that far.

I woudn't tell you how to go about it BUT don't you think that perhaps the very first step would be in changing their perception that they are "victims"? Insofar as we are "products of our own environment, we can acknowledge that this is true BUT at the same time, we can transform and enhance ourselves, no?

But you did use the term "survivors" and "craftors" so perhaps I spoke too soon.
SAPERE AUDE!

If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.

What we take ourselves to be doing when we think about what is the case or how we should act is something that cannot be reconciled with a reductive naturalism, for reasons distinct from those that entail the irreducibility of consciousness. It is not merely the subjectivity of thought but its capacity to transcend subjectivity and to discover what is objectively the case that presents a problem....Thought and reasoning are correct or incorrect in virtue of something independent of the thinker's beliefs, and even independent of the community of thinkers to which he belongs.

Thomas Nagel

I learn as I write!

Arcturus Descending
Consciousness Seeker

Posts: 14445
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm

### Re: Is belief in a creator a sign of weakness?

Well, to be honest, first step towards being a survivor and crafter is first to be coming from a place that is not those things. I live my life in the open and show people my wounds and scars. I show them where I've been and what I've been through and then I show them how I throw down. I lead by example, I give objective and subjective lessons; I strike every chord, every frequency and do so in every way.

Some Guy in History
Philosopher

Posts: 2259
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:26 am

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