"God" in the Postmodern Era

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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby Meno_ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:36 am

Errata: In the last paragraph, the sentence should read: 'only in terms of' in stead of 'in terms of'.
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby felix dakat » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:58 am

The ontological uncertainty of the postmodern era we are living in is strikingly illustrated by this article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... imulation/ If we can't be sure about whether or not we are mere players in a computer simulation, what can we say about ultimate reality?

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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby Meno_ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:46 am

Yes, but that does not detract for the argument for returning to a pre simulation, unless all was simulated to begin with, in which case there is no argument.
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby felix dakat » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:02 am

jerkey wrote:Yes, but that does not detract for the argument for returning to a pre simulation...


Assuming that a simulation occurred, how would one return to a pre-simulation?

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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby Meno_ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:28 am

felix dakat wrote:
jerkey wrote:Yes, but that does not detract for the argument for returning to a pre simulation...


Assuming that a simulation occurred, how would one return to a pre-simulation?
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby Meno_ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:31 am

jerkey wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
jerkey wrote:Yes, but that does not detract for the argument for returning to a pre simulation...


Assuming that a simulation occurred, how would one return to a pre-simulation?



One that assumption is made, then the return would of course not be a literal one, unless the technology for time travel has already been developed. Without that a return, even an eternal one is strictly in terms of metaphor, or aphorism.
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:04 am

felix dakat wrote:The ontological uncertainty of the postmodern era we are living in is strikingly illustrated by this article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... imulation/ If we can't be sure about whether or not we are mere players in a computer simulation, what can we say about ultimate reality?


Felix ... you must be a soul-mate ... not in the romantic sense ... in the sense ... two people cut from the same cloth.

I find the article you suggested fascinating ... it dovetails perfectly with my OP "Experiment is nearing completion. ???"

The validation of my thoughts become a bit intimidating though. :-)

For me ... humanity is facing a choice ... a blank page full of potential ... the experiment will either move to a new level or terminate.

As I mentioned in other posts:

Place your bets folks!!
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby felix dakat » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:15 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Felix ... you must be a soul-mate ... not in the romantic sense ... in the sense ... two people cut from the same cloth.

I find the article you suggested fascinating ... it dovetails perfectly with my OP "Experiment is nearing completion. ???"

The validation of my thoughts become a bit intimidating though. :-)

For me ... humanity is facing a choice ... a blank page full of potential ... the experiment will either move to a new level or terminate.

As I mentioned in other posts:

Place your bets folks!!


Would you agree that, given ontological uncertainty, instead of basing our lives on ultimate knowledge maybe we should try basing it on ultimate ignorance?

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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby phyllo » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:29 pm

Would you agree that, given ontological uncertainty, instead of basing our lives on ultimate knowledge maybe we should try basing it on ultimate ignorance?
How do you base your life on "ultimate knowledge"?
How do you base your life on "ultimate ignorance"?

What is it that you do? :-?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby Meno_ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 pm

If you base your life on ultimate ignorance its acting in the tradition of piety, submission and blind Faith.

If you base your life on ultimate knowledge, it is presuming that an ultimate being will not punish you by letting your soul be stolen, in the way the attempt was made to steal Faust' soul. It literally validated the goodness of God's Word. It need no representation by various authorities and can work magic in a personal interpretation. It protests a self declared authority to spell it out.

The goodness of the word has intrinsic and unassailable meaning.
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:24 pm

felix dakat wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
Felix ... you must be a soul-mate ... not in the romantic sense ... in the sense ... two people cut from the same cloth.

I find the article you suggested fascinating ... it dovetails perfectly with my OP "Experiment is nearing completion. ???"

The validation of my thoughts become a bit intimidating though. :-)

For me ... humanity is facing a choice ... a blank page full of potential ... the experiment will either move to a new level or terminate.

As I mentioned in other posts:

Place your bets folks!!


Would you agree that, given ontological uncertainty, instead of basing our lives on ultimate knowledge maybe we should try basing it on ultimate ignorance?


Felix ... the way I see it ... we do base our life on ultimate ignorance ... whether we are willing to admit it or not.

We are playing the game of life without a full deck of cards.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby felix dakat » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:10 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Felix ... the way I see it ... we do base our life on ultimate ignorance ... whether we are willing to admit it or not.

We are playing the game of life without a full deck of cards.


So it seems. The Scientific American article illustrated for me how little we know of ultimate reality. So, to suppose that we live in knowledge of where we come from, or where we are going or even how it is that we are here at this moment is a mistake. As long as that is the case, it seems to me it would be reasonable to live in the constant awareness of the ultimate mystery of existence.

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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:36 am

felix dakat wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Felix ... the way I see it ... we do base our life on ultimate ignorance ... whether we are willing to admit it or not.

We are playing the game of life without a full deck of cards.


So it seems. The Scientific American article illustrated for me how little we know of ultimate reality. So, to suppose that we live in knowledge of where we come from, or where we are going or even how it is that we are here at this moment is a mistake. As long as that is the case, it seems to me it would be reasonable to live in the constant awareness of the ultimate mystery of existence.



K: I believe that what we see is the ultimate reality.... we like to think that there
is some onion thing going on with reality and we haven't peeled open the "real" reality but
the fact is, we have......there is no mystery, no "ultimate" reality to find.... we are already
in the only reality that exists....look about you.. this is it.....and for some reason, we can't accept
that this is the only reality we have.........and the only one we are going to find......
deal with that reality kids.....

Kropotkin
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stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:17 am

felix dakat wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Felix ... the way I see it ... we do base our life on ultimate ignorance ... whether we are willing to admit it or not.

We are playing the game of life without a full deck of cards.


So it seems. The Scientific American article illustrated for me how little we know of ultimate reality. So, to suppose that we live in knowledge of where we come from, or where we are going or even how it is that we are here at this moment is a mistake. As long as that is the case, it seems to me it would be reasonable to live in the constant awareness of the ultimate mystery of existence.


Amen ... with a mellow heart!!
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:23 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
felix dakat wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Felix ... the way I see it ... we do base our life on ultimate ignorance ... whether we are willing to admit it or not.

We are playing the game of life without a full deck of cards.


So it seems. The Scientific American article illustrated for me how little we know of ultimate reality. So, to suppose that we live in knowledge of where we come from, or where we are going or even how it is that we are here at this moment is a mistake. As long as that is the case, it seems to me it would be reasonable to live in the constant awareness of the ultimate mystery of existence.



K: I believe that what we see is the ultimate reality.... we like to think that there
is some onion thing going on with reality and we haven't peeled open the "real" reality but
the fact is, we have......there is no mystery, no "ultimate" reality to find.... we are already
in the only reality that exists....look about you.. this is it.....and for some reason, we can't accept
that this is the only reality we have.........and the only one we are going to find......
deal with that reality kids.....

Kropotkin


Peter ... for me the mystery Felix refers to is the "stuff" on the other side of the 'veil' ... yeah ultimate reality permeates our existence ... and some may have imagined IT correctly ... no one has proven it ... with any degree of certainty.

If we truly could "see" all ... there would be no further inspiration/motivation for the pursuit of philosophy, science or religion.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: "God" in the Postmodern Era

Postby omar » Sat May 27, 2017 7:43 am

felix dakat wrote:We are living in a time of great confusion as to who or what "God" is. The problem with talking about God is that the word "God" no longer has any clearly circumscribed meaning. Instead, it is used in many contradictory ways. For a growing number of people "God" has become an empty signifier or place holder. The content of the word "God" has come to depend on people's personal preference. If "God" can mean anything, doesn't it actually mean nothing?

While reading this all I could think of was: nothing new under the sun. The condition you describe is not new. In the first century for example, "god fearers " would court various gods. No religion which I am aware of has had a god which was not contradictory or paradoxical.
The post modern condition is a return to a default condition which was only alleviated by arbitrary means, by force. Without this option you have the variety of opinions about god we see today. I'm not saying that god is meaningless or that it means different things to different people all of the time because we do have communities which use the word in a somewhat consistent way. That said there are different communities with their own meaning
Or use of the word god.
The interesting part of postmodernism, what might be new, is that the will of the individual is king in our day. The desire to belong is declining (whether that's a fact or a linguistic fashion) and so god's meaning is left to the personal tastes of individuals. Although this is the philosophical consequence of postmodernism, I believe that the communal instinct in all of us means that the majority shy away from the enormous responsibility of defining what god is for them.
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