Paganism

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Paganism

Postby mannikin » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:20 pm

Why is paganism associated with evil, devil, satanic etc?

I know early christians may of done that as a strategy to remove it etc, but then why are there a lot of evil worshiping people embracing pagan rituals?
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:17 am

manni ... has the notion/source of evil ever been definitively determined? ... with any degree of certainty?

talking about evil ... perpetuating human rituals that are perceived as evil fuels it's vitality and reach.

I've posted this graphic a few times ... have you seen it before?

Group Logo.jpg
Group Logo.jpg (48.05 KiB) Viewed 544 times
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Re: Paganism

Postby barbarianhorde » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:18 am

Pig were tortured in Belgium. Biologicall meat-pigs no less.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

THE HORNED ONE
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:47 am

barbarianhorde wrote:Pig were tortured in Belgium. Biologicall meat-pigs no less.


thanks for validating my post
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:01 am

fighting hostility to achieve harmony is like fornicating to achieve chastity
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:35 am

the notion of evil is an enigma ... empirical evidence confirms ... at least in some cases ... what is perceived as an evil act gives birth to unbounded goodness.

Take the case of Little Margaret ... an infant born blind, deformed, crippled and ugly ... so much so that her parents ... who were aristocrats ... refused to give her a name ... and hid the knowledge of her existence from their entire social network ... to the point of sealing her in a virtual coffin for 13 years.

The kindest act her parents did for her was to abandon her completely around age 20 ... left her alone in a church rather far from their home.

This final act spawned an abundance of goodness.

Potential for goodness is embodied in what we perceive to be evil.
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:49 am

pilgrim_tom wrote:manni ... has the notion/source of evil ever been definitively determined? ... with any degree of certainty?

talking about evil ... perpetuating human rituals that are perceived as evil fuels it's vitality and reach.

I've posted this graphic a few times ... have you seen it before?

Group Logo.jpg



Well, I don't wanna get hung up on the definitions at this moment, but i think if we take into consideration a bunch of blokes standing in a circle with a baby in the middle of it with candles and pagan symbols around it , then one of the blokes starts to stab the baby continuously killing it while chanting ritualistic offerings to some some god...is kind of fucked up..it's not like i would be standing there with them..

despite the word evil, is this what paganism is about?
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:34 am

mannikin wrote:despite the word evil, is this what paganism is about?


manni ... the horror of the anecdote you shared can be seen in most ... if not all religions ... the Bible has lots of examples ... the Christian crusades are an example ... and so on ... and so on.

I guess I'm saying the definition of a religion can hardly be limited to the horror inflicted in the name of such religion.
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:56 am

Yeah I agree with that and that is apart of what I'm trying to get at..

I'm wondering if this is just human behaviour regardless, but it's interesting to see how this behaviour relates to paganistic tradition.

I guess paganism and other things expose living creatures in many ways..

I guess what I'm getting at is, is the fundamental reality of paganism support it or against it?

Hmm maybe I'm just thinking in black and white terms
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:10 am

As I posted in another OP ...we live in 'darkness' all our lives ... the unknown is a 'darkness' within human consciousness. Full knowledge may well reside in each individual mind ... but if so ... if resides deep in the shadows of our subconscious mind.

The essence of religion is an attempt to peer into this 'darkness' ... embracing as Truth ... many presumptions along the way. These presumptions have waxed and waned over space and time ... some that appeared to have 'died' only to reappear in a different form ... like the many pagan practices in Christian faith. Winter solstice as the date of choice for the birth of Jesus and so on and so on.
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:15 am

Winter solstice as the birth date of Jesus may explain why birth records have never surfaced for Jesus ... and the people of his day paid fastidious attention to genealogy. ergo birth records

Imagine the consequences of Jesus' birth records surfacing ... let's say proving his birthday was in May ...

JSS shared some of his keen insight recently:

truth is destructive

lying is always present
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:16 am

Jesus just seems like a more recent reference to the previous sun gods..

The birth sequence is completely astrological. The star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion’s Belt. These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times: The Three Kings. The Three Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th. This is why the Three Kings “follow” the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise — the birth of the sun.


etc

That Jesus character hasn't penetrated my mind as much as it as with you it seems, perhaps you grew up in a very religious household. However, my school system did try to force it upon me and make me pray every morning during assembly, but somehow it just didn't work, i was immune to it...

Personally, i don't really care about all that Christian stuff, i'm more interested in what came before it..that's what i'm trying to figure out..
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:06 am

mannikin wrote:perhaps you grew up in a very religious household.


Nope! not me.

The closest I ever heard my dad pray was the day he said ... "Hail Mary, full of grace ... wash your hands before your face"

Don't misunderstand me ... in his actions he was often more 'Catholic' than my Catholic mom.

mannikin wrote:However, my school system did try to force it upon me and make me pray every morning during assembly, but somehow it just didn't work, i was immune to it...


You are so lucky ... perhaps you were born with an immunity to the virus!

mannikin wrote:Personally, i don't really care about all that Christian stuff, i'm more interested in what came before it..that's what i'm trying to figure out..


A vexing statement! ... yet ... I think we are on the same page. For me, the genealogy of a religion is just as important as the genealogy of a person. You can't know one without the other ... they are inextricably linked.

My first thoughts on the genealogy of Christianity are:

1) The ancient city of Ur where apparently child sacrifice was an acceptable part of culture.

2) Sun worship from Egypt ... Egypt is too conveniently woven into the fabric of the Jesus story to ignore it.

Again ... don't get me wrong ... if I'm right ... the above elements were inserted into the true story... and the 'hybrid' story has come down to us.

Are we still on the same page?
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:23 pm

You are so lucky ... perhaps you were born with an immunity to the virus!


The school was a Christian school, my neighborhood was very islamic, and there was also Jews nearby.

Christians saying Jesus was God, Muslims saying he was only a Prophet and the Jews saying he was neither...

I grew bored of this reoccurring circumstance, it seemed very trivial to me, like kids arguing over stickers.. it made it very easy for me to dismiss it at that point...

I figured they wouldn't know about any of these things had they not been told them or raised to identify themselves with them...Although i do enjoy watching them from my window, placing everything into understanding where the information is presented..

This is what paganism is to me, some kind of natural world where i feel automatically connected to everything, there is this inspiration, words become real in reference to reality, clarity shines through..like you wake up to yourself..
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:32 pm

Those religions make it very easy to dismiss reality by defaulting to a scripture, rather than a sense of self, the scriptures define words which has no relation to reality, there are jews nearby, close proximity to me, my self where reality becomes a discussion between my essence/survival in relation to the environment, the scriptures certainly blinds them from seeing me in my nature, but they are told something that being a believer is becoming the book, human books are walking, pages are thinking, not thinking, but being thought of in imitation and projection, occupying the mind.
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:46 pm

mannikin wrote:
You are so lucky ... perhaps you were born with an immunity to the virus!


The school was a Christian school, my neighborhood was very islamic, and there was also Jews nearby.

Christians saying Jesus was God, Muslims saying he was only a Prophet and the Jews saying he was neither...

I grew bored of this reoccurring circumstance, it seemed very trivial to me, like kids arguing over stickers.. it made it very easy for me to dismiss it at that point...

I figured they wouldn't know about any of these things had they not been told them or raised to identify themselves with them...Although i do enjoy watching them from my window, placing everything into understanding where the information is presented..

This is what paganism is to me, some kind of natural world where i feel automatically connected to everything, there is this inspiration, words become real in reference to reality, clarity shines through..like you wake up to yourself..


Brilliant post Manni !!
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 pm

mannikin wrote:Those religions make it very easy to dismiss reality by defaulting to a scripture, rather than a sense of self, the scriptures define words which has no relation to reality, there are jews nearby, close proximity to me, my self where reality becomes a discussion between my essence/survival in relation to the environment, the scriptures certainly blinds them from seeing me in my nature, but they are told something that being a believer is becoming the book, human books are walking, pages are thinking, not thinking, but being thought of in imitation and projection, occupying the mind.


Manni ... hate is an obstacle to enlightenment.

Who would intentionally want to constipate their consciousness?

If you are sincerely interested in Paganism you should study the evolution of the Judaic/Christian/Islam ... the answers are all there ... some exquisitely camouflaged.
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:00 pm

Manni ... if you are interested in a short cut ... read this book

"The Classic of the Dao ... A New Investigation" by Wang Keping
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:48 pm

Will check it out
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:31 pm

Why would you recommend me that book?
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:28 am

mannikin wrote:Why would you recommend me that book?


manni ... self discovery is a personal journey ... ingesting the thoughts/intuitions/experiences of an "other" would put us in the same category as the children in your neighborhood as a child.

OTH ... thoughts/intuitions that are confirmed by personal experience are not only helpful ... they encourage us to continue on our personal journey of self discovery.

you mentioned several times your preference for a "nature" based world view. The thoughts/philosophy in the Dao De Jing are almost entirely "nature" based.

The Dao De Jing is a short poem ... about 5,000 Chinese characters ... written about 2,500 years ago ... yet ... IMO the thoughts expressed in the poem owe their genesis to a much earlier period ... perhaps as much as 5,000 years ago (from today)

Some say the book is the most read book after the Bible ... translated into many languages ... and interpretation/commentary for more than 2,300 years.

People are still arguing over interpretation especially in light of recent archeological discoveries.

The book is a rare opportunity for English speaking people to get a peek into an "alien" perspective.

I personally have read the book 15-20 times ... each time expanding my comprehension ... I personally found so many parallels between the stuff expressed in the poem and the Judaic/Christian/Islam faith stories.
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Re: Paganism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:15 am

Manni ... have you read this? ... from Wiki on the author of the book ... seems like decent credentials

Wang Keping is philosophy professor and PhD supervisor of Beijing International Studies University (BISU), China.[1] He is also Director and doctoral supervisor at the Institute of Philosophy of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS).[2] He enjoys the Chinese State Council Special Allowance since 1998 and is currently Vice President of the International Society for Universal Dialogue (ISUD). He has been honorary member of the Olympic Center for Philosophy and Culture under the University of Athens since 2007.
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Re: Paganism

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:01 pm

Satan isn't evil. He is just a beast with needs.
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Re: Paganism

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:03 pm

God is evil. Satan is a metaphor of the Noble angel who rebelled against a tyrant. You can't tell me God is not evil, God is evil. God is a metaphor for the folks in elysium, hipsters, yuppies, high heeled angels who live in the clouds, who don't care about the male misery below. Nobody wants to understand or hear the male damnation, they just plug into their iphones, eat their butchered arby beefsteak and just don't care. God sits in his throne like a high heeled lady, who could care less about the hell and damnation of all her dumped exes.
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Re: Paganism

Postby mannikin » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:05 pm

Richard Dawkins once said if God exists then the first question I will ask is " why so distant?"
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