Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

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Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:07 am

A rather recent and rather broad illustration is:

"Everything to do with her is mysterious and paradoxical. In the Bible she is always female... She is continually being sought and found, lost and found; she ascends and descends; she finds her place in Israel, she can find no place in Israel. She is the divine female companion of God, eternal with Him before creation, and is herself involved in the cosmos as creator, nurturer, teacher and artificer. She acts as intermediary between God and humans and is willing to share herself with them and with the world. She may be married to God or to selected men, and she may be the mother of the created world. Human beings must follow her rules if they are to succeed in this life and also possibly partake in an afterlife with God. It was she who helped God create the universe and she knows all its secrets. She moves through it and orders it well". (A. P. Long. in: Pirani. A. (ed.) The Absent Mother (1991:46))


Recently I've have been flogging the possibility of a convergence of Science, Philosophy and Religion.

Two days ago JSS defined philosophy as:

James S Saint wrote:Wisdom is higher than reasoning. Philosophy is first and foremost about wisdom. Reasoning is the philosophical approach to achieving that goal.


James obviously was not referring to Biblical Wisdom ... yet ... are they the same phenomenon?
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:35 am

Do you need it to be?

Are you sure that moving your body to a specific point that it'll aid insight into your mind?

Perhaps your mind will find exactly what it aims to find?
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:01 am

mannikin wrote:Do you need it to be?

Are you sure that moving your body to a specific point that it'll aid insight into your mind?

Perhaps your mind will find exactly what it aims to find?


Excellent questions Mannikin!

mannikin wrote:Do you need it to be?


Suppose the short answer is "no". If one reaches the goal ... "Ultimate Wisdom" ... who cares how you get there eh! Krishnamurti expressed this sentiment ... "Truth is a pathless land". I understand his intention using the word "Truth" to be synonymous with the term "Ultimate Wisdom". Though perhaps I err in my understanding.

mannikin wrote:Are you sure that moving your body to a specific point that it'll aid insight into your mind?


Nope! yet in the past lots of individuals believed it ... I'm thinking of the hermits/monks who took up semi-permanent residence in remote caves.

mannikin wrote:Perhaps your mind will find exactly what it aims to find?


Seems we agree on this point ... today I said as much in a post in the OP "What is prophecy?"

My personal world view is the fruit of my personal experiences and reflections.

Seems the cosmos sends me 'stuff' ... often written by people long gone from this planet ... that confirms my personal world view.

In essence ... my personal self fulfilling prophecy.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:50 am

Some readers may be asking ... yet again ... how does this guy profess to cling to his Catholic faith?

As I mentioned in several posts ... it's my view that Catholic dogma/doctrine is and always has been in a constant state of flux.The changes may have been slow in coming and don't appear to be linear ... change/evolution nonetheless.

Perhaps a watershed moment was the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD.

Another change I find myself attracted to was adoption of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception ... no doubt in part because this change was the tipping point in the Catholic Church endorsing the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes France in 1858.

Wiki
the doctrine was not dogmatically defined until 1854, by Pope Pius IX in his papal bull Ineffabilis Deus.[1


A ShieldMaiden pointed out a much more recent shift ... not yet formalized ...

The following are some of the Pope’s statements.

-“When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so.”

-“The Big Bang, which today we hold to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of the divine creator but, rather, requires it.”

-“Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve.”

Really?

Pope Francis says there is not any room for 'fundamentialsm" in Christianty.

He said “A fundamentalist group, even if it kills no one, even it strikes no one, is violent. The mental structure of fundamentalism is violence in the name of God.”

It would seem the Pope has a problem with people that believe the Scriptures are literally true.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:13 pm

Are you sure there is a truth, an ultimate wisdom?


Does there need to be?

Various theological strains will naturally attempt to adapt to modern science, especially if it is backed by a large amount of evidence, then those strains will find a way to incorporate it into its essence, validating itself continuously as to not break the stronghold it has maintained for several years.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:38 pm

mannikin wrote:Are you sure there is a truth, an ultimate wisdom?

Does there need to be?


Frankly ... no! ... and ... no!

Yet ... hoping there is seems to provide some comfort.

JSS ... labelled those who cling to prophecy and belief "desperate" ... his label may be more accurate than pejorative.



mannikin wrote:Various theological strains will naturally attempt to adapt to modern science, especially if it is backed by a large amount of evidence, then those strains will find a way to incorporate it into its essence, validating itself continuously as to not break the stronghold it has maintained for several years.


You nailed it Mannikin!!
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby phyllo » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:47 pm

Seems the cosmos sends me 'stuff' ... often written by people long gone from this planet ... that confirms my personal world view.
Can you say confirmation bias? Sure you can.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby James S Saint » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:01 pm

Be careful to not conflate Truth with Wisdom. Wisdom, by definition, is whatever is best to believe. Truth is not necessarily what is best to believe for all people.

pilgrim_tom wrote:Recently I've have been flogging the possibility of a convergence of Science, Philosophy and Religion.

That would be RM:AO:Sociology/SAM (Rational Metaphysics:Affectance Ontology:Sociology/Social Anentropic Molecule).

Religion, the retention of the legion (maintaining cohesion of the group), is based upon ordained revelation (realization of a truth), aka "faith in the prophets". Philosophy is based upon reasoning, and Science was based upon measured empirical evidence. What is required is to merge those concerns into a coherent structure. Rational Metaphysics provides the intellectual means to accomplish that while SAM provides for the social means.

Rational Metaphysics is the combination of Definitional Logic, Scientific Methodology, and Resolution Debating. It is the Resolution Debating that provides for sufficient faith to mend damaged faith as well as ensure good reasoning to have faith.

The end result is that when doubt arises to challenge faith, there is a path of reasoning available that can be verified so as to restore any lost faith. Most of the time, faith is all that is needed or wanted. But blind faith has issues that lead to discontent, disharmony, and disillusion. If a means to verify faith is provided whenever such is required, faith becomes far more sensible because it is being checked against reason.

Such provides wisdom for all concerned, the "best thing to believe", regardless of endeavor and/or Truth. And it isn't the same for everyone.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
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From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:55 pm

James S Saint wrote:Be careful to not conflate Truth with Wisdom. Wisdom, by definition, is whatever is best to believe. Truth is not necessarily what is best to believe for all people.

pilgrim_tom wrote:Recently I've have been flogging the possibility of a convergence of Science, Philosophy and Religion.

That would be RM:AO:Sociology/SAM (Rational Metaphysics:Affectance Ontology:Sociology/Social Anentropic Molecule).

Religion, the retention of the legion (maintaining cohesion of the group), is based upon ordained revelation (realization of a truth), aka "faith in the prophets". Philosophy is based upon reasoning, and Science was based upon measured empirical evidence. What is required is to merge those concerns into a coherent structure. Rational Metaphysics provides the intellectual means to accomplish that while SAM provides for the social means.

Rational Metaphysics is the combination of Definitional Logic, Scientific Methodology, and Resolution Debating. It is the Resolution Debating that provides for sufficient faith to mend damaged faith as well as ensure good reasoning to have faith.

The end result is that when doubt arises to challenge faith, there is a path of reasoning available that can be verified so as to restore any lost faith. Most of the time, faith is all that is needed or wanted. But blind faith has issues that lead to discontent, disharmony, and disillusion. If a means to verify faith is provided whenever such is required, faith becomes far more sensible because it is being checked against reason.

Such provides wisdom for all concerned, the "best thing to believe", regardless of endeavor and/or Truth. And it isn't the same for everyone.


James ... an interesting ... and entertaining post.

For me ... you have once again ... through intention or accident ... revealed a profound Truth.

Words are a poor proxy for communication ... more sophisticated words only exacerbate the obfuscation.

Ditto for "Naming Conventions".


Confucius introduced this menace 2,500 years ago in his "Rectification of Names" writings.

Sadly ... as yet ... we have no better alternative. While experience appears to influence individual consciousness deeper than words ... we only have words/images to describe experience(s).
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:11 am

more emerging thoughts ...

The perhaps very very old ... yet still emerging ... forms of communication without words ... telepathy and collective consciousness ... may point to a future alternative.

Same dilemma though ... science has yet been unable to verify the authenticity/veracity of these two forms of communication ... not that they aren't trying though ... eg. the Princeton Global Consciousness Project.

Perhaps the Biblical notion of Lady Wisdom points in the same direction.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:08 am

pilgrim_tom wrote:
mannikin wrote:Are you sure there is a truth, an ultimate wisdom?

Does there need to be?


Frankly ... no! ... and ... no!

Yet ... hoping there is seems to provide some comfort.

JSS ... labelled those who cling to prophecy and belief "desperate" ... his label may be more accurate than pejorative.





and what brings about this discomfort?
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:17 am

You don't seem overly infected, there is still time.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:39 am

mannikin wrote:
pilgrim_tom wrote:
mannikin wrote:Are you sure there is a truth, an ultimate wisdom?

Does there need to be?


Frankly ... no! ... and ... no!

Yet ... hoping there is seems to provide some comfort.

JSS ... labelled those who cling to prophecy and belief "desperate" ... his label may be more accurate than pejorative.





and what brings about this discomfort?


Mannikin ... your signature photo says it much better than any picture/image I could draw with words.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:40 am

mannikin wrote:You don't seem overly infected, there is still time.


the gazillion dollar question ... how much time do we have?
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:00 am

Ah, you are referring to the perception of human decay, makes you feel a little traumatized does it?

One only has to notice it and be aware of it to protect oneself from it, this is enough for any healthy mind.. even if it closing in on you, near you and surrounding you, it will not be able to reach you if you remain aware...

However, if by any chance you are possessed with an overwhelming need to help and save people then it may prove to be detrimental to oneself...

and this need, in that direction, may also reveal a lot about you..

If you are healthy then you have all the time a healthy mind and body can naturally have...
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:29 am

mannikin wrote:Ah, you are referring to the perception of human decay, makes you feel a little traumatized does it?

One only has to notice it and be aware of it to protect oneself from it, this is enough for any healthy mind.. even if it closing in on you, near you and surrounding you, it will not be able to reach you if you remain aware...


Mannikin ... your posts are both titillating and vexing. To write so eloquently of such incredibly complex issues you surely have a deep reservoir of rich personal experiences.

mannikin wrote:However, if by any chance you are possessed with an overwhelming need to help and save people then it may prove to be detrimental to oneself...

and this need, in that direction, may also reveal a lot about you..


Not me ... I have a generous ... yet selfish ... heart.

mannikin wrote:If you are healthy then you have all the time a healthy mind and body can naturally have...


The notion of time is a human construct and I wrote of it in that sense.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:05 am

Mannikin ... your posts are both titillating and vexing. To write so eloquently of such incredibly complex issues you surely have a deep reservoir of rich personal experiences.

Mannikin, The king of the damned, I knock upon the doors, who is it? but I..who peers into the abyss, the screams, the ideals, the dreams..but it is never good when the tank is empty of the thankless many.. Will the room be consumed by your personal doom?

Is a mirror necessary for one to see themselves?

Not me ... I have a generous ... yet selfish ... heart.


Generosity loses it's value when it's holder becomes self-less, similar to love losing its meaning when dispensed to all.

Generosity guarded by selfishness is enough to protect the heart, for this is one of the openings the virus attempts to crawl into and build its nest, taking over the mind and body distancing you from yourself. Generosity guarded by selfishness allows you to acknowledge its value, manifesting as a comprehension of differences...

The virus seeks to delude you that these differences don't exist.

The notion of time is a human construct and I wrote of it in that sense


To the virus, time is a tool, a very useful one, a fertile ground to plant its deceptive seeds, once it takes root to a certain degree, even if the plant develops a flower, its beauty will be overshadowed by it's thorns..
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:07 am

Mannikin ... let me put your signature photo and your written words "perception of human decay" side by side ... so to speak.

Would a casual observer ... looking only at your signature photo ... grasp the true intention of the message you are attempting to convey?

Paraphrasing ... human decay is only a perception ... an illusion ... in fact, humanity is inching ever closer to it's spiritual origins.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby mannikin » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:16 am

Would a casual observer ... looking only at your signature photo ... grasp the true intention of the message you are attempting to convey?


The picture speaks for itself, my display of it is merely humorous....but behind the humor it serves as reminder of the horror..

Paraphrasing ... human decay is only a perception ... an illusion ... in fact, humanity is inching ever closer to it's spiritual origins.

If it is an illusion, then there is no need for it to make you feel uncomfortable ...are you sure it's just an illusion?
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:02 am

mannikin wrote:
Would a casual observer ... looking only at your signature photo ... grasp the true intention of the message you are attempting to convey?


The picture speaks for itself, my display of it is merely humorous....but behind the humor it serves as reminder of the horror..

Paraphrasing ... human decay is only a perception ... an illusion ... in fact, humanity is inching ever closer to it's spiritual origins.

If it is an illusion, then there is no need for it to make you feel uncomfortable

My discomfort stems largely from the stubbornness of humanity ... and I vacillate on that ... for a while I see it as stubbornness and later empathy and compassion seeps in ... until the scales are removed from their eyes they are as blind as bats.
Eventually I return to my only refuge ... patience and humility.

mannikin wrote:...are you sure it's just an illusion?


I'm hopeful ... never certain.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:01 am


Pilgrim
wrote:
Another change I find myself attracted to was adoption of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception ... no doubt in part because this change was the tipping point in the Catholic Church endorsing the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes France in 1858.

I can only agree with nearly all unbiased historians in regarding the worship of Mary as a close parallel to that of ancient heathenism. Nowhere in Scripture is she an exception from universal sin or transformed into a sinless holy co-redeemer.

To think otherwise is a figment of one's imagination.
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:57 pm

pilgrim_tom wrote:[b]
Another change I find myself attracted to was adoption of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception ... no doubt in part because this change was the tipping point in the Catholic Church endorsing the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes France in 1858.


A Shieldmaiden wrote:I can only agree with nearly all unbiased historians in regarding the worship of Mary as a close parallel to that of ancient heathenism. Nowhere in Scripture is she an exception from universal sin or transformed into a sinless holy co-redeemer.

To think otherwise is a figment of one's imagination.


Finally, someone has acknowledged my affection ... actually much more than affection and much less than worship ... for Mary. Thank you A. Shieldmaiden.

A Shieldmaiden wrote:I can only agree with nearly all unbiased historians in regarding the worship of Mary as a close parallel to that of ancient heathenism. Nowhere in Scripture is she an exception from universal sin or transformed into a sinless holy co-redeemer.


You can add my name to your long list ASM

A Shieldmaiden wrote:To think otherwise is a figment of one's imagination.


With the absence of convincing objective evidence I suppose all belief in Scripture is a figment of one's imagination. Bigous would certainly agree.

For those readers expecting an emotional outburst ... sorry to disappoint you ... I suppose Mary wouldn't allow it.

For any reader who may be curious how my personal experiences lead me into an intimate relationship with Mary ... here are some old notes.

My Consecration to Mary
For a long time I felt that Jesus sent me to His Mother Mary that She might help me through my catharsis ... my purgation. In his book 'True Devotion to Mary ... using the story of Rebecca and Jacob, St Louis de Monfort describes this process eloquently ...

"They bring to her and give her, not two kids, as did Jacob to Rebecca, but their body and their soul, with all that depends on them, symbolized by the two kids of Jacob. They bring them to her: (1) that she may receive them as things which belong to her: (2) that she may kill them, that is, make them die to sin and self, by stripping them of their own skin and their own self-love, so as by this means to please Jesus, her Son, who wills not to have any for His disciples and friends but those who are dead to themselves; (3) that she may prepare them for the taste of our heavenly Father, and for His greatest glory, which she knows better than any other creature; and (4) that by her care and intercession this body and soul, thoroughly purified from every stain, thoroughly dead, thoroughly stripped and prepared, may be a delicate meat, worthy of the mouth and the blessing of our heavenly Father. Is this not what the predestined do, who by way of testifying to Jesus and Mary an effective and courageous love, relish and practice the perfect consecration to Jesus Christ"

My healing journey has been rather long and difficult. While I haven't experienced much human tenderness and affection along the way ... I always felt that Mary was never very far away.

Similarily, it seems Mary introduced me to St Joseph and several Saints ... with the life and teaching of each Saint contributing to my 'spiritual evolution'.

My first several encounters with the Blessed Virgin Mary are described in my posts ... Marmora and Medugorje ... and ... Camino Santiago June 2000. In my view, the most significant being when she sent me on my first pilgrimage to Santiago Compostella Spai... via Lourdes France ... and starting out on the same day the Third Secret of Fatima was made public. While I feel the connection to the Third Secret of Fatima is significant ... this part of my spiritual journey remains active and the purpose remains a mystery.

When I found the above picture of Her and read the caption ... I was reminded of my encounter with St Pio in San Giovanni Rotondo ... at the time Padre Pio.

I first heard about Padre Pio from my friend Michelle ... she wanted to visit San Giovanni Rotondo during our tour of Italy ... following my first visit to Medugorje. We were in Ancona at the time ... buying a statue of Our Lady of Grace. Seems this was one of the occasions that I was 'drunk on love' ... out of the blue I decided to buy this statue. The vendor didn't even ask for any money ... he said I could pay for it after it arrived safely in Canada ... how trusting eh!

I remember picking up the statue in Toronto ... had an old Jeep at the time. They tied this very large wooden crate to the top of my Jeep and I drove from Toronto to Huntsville. Along the way I picked up a gentleman who was hitchhiking to Barrie. During our short ride together he was lamenting about his many recent troubles. After listening to him for a while I nonchalantly said to him ... " the woman who helped me through many similar struggles is in the box tied to the roof of my Jeep. I can't imagine what he thought about my comment ... he probably figured I was some kind of nut case. :-)

Back to Padre Pio.

A year or so later I was back in Medugorje with my son Kevin. We had a pleasant stay and when the time came to leave we didn't know where to go. On the bus out of Medugorje a young American man ... Michael ... who had also just visited Medugorje started chatting with us about our impressions of Medugorje. He mentioned that he was on his way to San Giovanni Rotundo to visit the sites associated with Padre Pio ... and he invited us to join him. My son Kevin had seen a television show involving the stigmata ... the XFiles ... and as a result he was interested in Michael's invitation.

We had a very pleasant visit ... was really impressed with how the local people were so sociable ... hundreds of people would stroll together along the streets in the evening. We even met an older man who had known Padre Pio personally ... yet the real mystery started on our way out of town. At the time I depended completly on my bank debit card ... didn't possess a credit card. Also at this time ATMs were not very popular in Europe. To make a long story short we ran out of money in Foggio. Fortunately for us ... Michael offered to loan us enough money to get to Padua in Northern Italy. I figured if worse came to worse we could find help with Paula's family who I knew lived near Padua ... mind you ... I never met any of them and I couldn't speak any Italian ... don't know how I planned on communicating with them ... international body language I suppose.:-)

While Kevin and I were on the train to Padua we discussed our concerns about what we would do for money when we arrived.

I suggested we take Padre Pio’s advice and send our angels ahead to prepare the way for us. What happened is full of mystery. We arrived in Padua … with barely enough money for my morning coffee … and no bank machines. I decided to forgo my morning coffee … a significant event in itself … and wait for the bank to open on the hope there would be a bank machine inside the bank.

After several hours I realized the bank would not open … it was Saturday and all banks were closed … why did it take me so long to realize it was Saturday? Hmmm!

After a brief discussion of alternatives with Kevin … we really didn’t have any ... Kevin didn’t like the idea of visiting Paula’s family in Godigo as beggars … arriving with no money and asking them to borrow some money didn’t sit well with Kevins’ personal dignity … didn’t bother me any. :-)

We learned that we had exactly enough money for two train tickets to Venice. I figured since Venice was such a popular international tourist location there would surely be a bank machine that would accept my bank debit card. We got off the train in Venice … a large platform area swarming with people. We found a bank machine and tried my card … no luck! YUK! What to do now?

Wandering around the crowd of people we heard some English conversation … likely a rare enough situation even in Venice. The small group that were chatting broke up and one of the men noticed that we were hanging around them … he probably figured we needed help. He was right … and he was our ‘angel’. He gave us instructions on how to find another bank machine … located somewhere off one of the waterways of Venice. He paid for our boat fare … told us to go to his hotel if the bank machine didn’t work and told us to ask the receptionist at his hotel for some money to eat. Imagine that! … a complete stranger … so trusting and generous. Perhaps not an earth shattering experience … yet if someone suggested I go to Venice as a beggar and all will turn out OK … no way!

Surprisingly enough we found the bank in some back alley … surprising because I get lost in a parking lot. :-) The machine accepted my card and that sound … the one that tells you money is coming out of the machine … at that particular moment … was the most beautiful music in the world. :-) Perhaps Padre Pio ... now St Pio ... did go ahead of us and prepare the way?

Today is the feast day of Our Lady of the Rosary and it seems fitting that I should leave the unfinished posts on St Therese of the Child Jesus and St Francis of Assisi to write about some of my experiences involving Our Lady of the Rosary.

In my post "My Tribute to Our Lady of the Rosary" I mentioned how I offered the balance of my life to the Virgin Mary in October 1995 at the Greenshield’s farm in Marmora.

Seems the 'seed' for this relationship was planted in my 'soul' during the bus trip from Huntsville to Marmora in July 1995. I say my 'soul' because I only received the knowledge necessary to make a 'conscious' connection a couple of years ago when I learned that the woman of the apparitions in Fatima Portugal in 1917 introduced herself as 'Our Lady of the Rosary'.

A year or so later ... probably 1997 ... I would find a book that helped me to understand what I had done ... "True Devotion to Mary" by St Louis de Montfort (18th century).

In December 1998, during my visit to Israel ... the same visit where I had my 'mystical' experience at Mount Carmel and the cave of Elijah ... I found an interesting article in the Jerusalem Post (an English daily newspaper in Jerusalem). The article deals with the story of Jacob and Esau from a Jewish perspective. At the time ... and still today ... I find it particularly interesting that more words of the Torah are 'spent' dealing with this historical act than the Sabbath.

On the bus trip between Huntsville and Marmora in July 1995 a kind lady gave rosaries to the passengers on the bus ... she stated that these were special rosaries ...'a scapular rosary yim

'The same lady suggested to me that I revisit Marmora on September 13th and October 13th ... that these were somehow very special dates. September 13, 1995 I visited Marmora with my sister and October 13, 1995 I visited Marmora alone. On the second one of those visits, I offered the balance of my life to the Blessed Virgin Mary ... a tearful and emotionally charged experience.

Several years later I learned that September 13th and October 13th were two of the days of the apparitions of the Virgin Mary in Fatima Portugal back in 1917.

My own experience with the rosary goes back to my early childhood. My mother would bring us children to her bedroom and force us to kneel around her bed while she recited the rosary. My mother who has passed her 90th year continues to practice her 'passion' for the rosary ... simply reciting the prayers several times each day.

From my childhood years(less than 10 years old) until July 1995 I had little or no experience with the rosary ... I did not own one and I did not pray the rosary. Since that time it is rare that I do not have my rosary with me ... where ever I am ... and I carry a 'scapular' in my wallet.

Until July 1995 I had never heard of the 'scapular' ... since that time I have learned that the scapular is affiliated with the 'Carmelites' ... St Teresa of Jesus, St Therese of the Child Jesus and St John of the Cross are all well known Carmelites. St Teresa and St John are both well known 16th century Spanish mystics who dedicated their lives to the reformation of the Carmelite Order. The reformed order came to be known as 'Discalced Carmelites'. I believe the name 'Discalced Carmelites' was mentioned in the book I read in December 1995, one of the 2 volume series written by St Teresa that I had purchased in Assisi a few months earlier. I had no idea what the word 'discalced' meant and no appetite to try and find out the meaning.

In August 2003, I had just finished walking the 'Ruta de La Plata' (Seville to Santiago Compostella) and I found myself in Segovia Spain, the home of St John of the Cross. I had just purchased new shoes in Santiago de Compostella a few days earlier and I tried wearing them in Segovia ... nope ... seemed my feet needed some time to heal from the long walk. I went around without shoes ... barefoot ... even in the Cathedral dedicated to St John of the Cross. A few weeks later, back in Canada, a priest mentioned during a homily that the word 'discalced' simply meant 'barefoot'. This brought to mind my experience in Segovia ... maybe St John of the Cross was trying to tell me that if I wanted to follow in the spirit of the "Discalced Carmelites' I would have to go around bare feet.

In December 1998 I found myself sitting on top of Mount Carmel in Israel (Haifa). I visited the Carmelite Monastery there and had a ‘mystical’ experience in the chapel. While I was sitting in the chapel ... simply sitting all alone ... looking at this statue of Elijah ... I had never seen a statue of Elijah before and I don't think at the time I knew that Elijah was considered the 'spiritual' father of the Carmelite Order.

A couple of people came into the chapel and sat across and slightly behind me ... I never did see their faces. I overheard a gentleman telling these people some of the story of Elijah ... a few minutes later the same gentleman starting playing a flute and said the tune he was playing was written to commemorate Elijah's flight to heaven in the chariot of fire.

Some say music is the doorway to the soul ... there are no words to describe what was going on in my soul a few seconds after hearing this music in the chapel on Mount Carmel that day. I remember feeling like I was 'floating' as I walked back down the hill to the hostel where I was staying. I also remember saying to myself along the way ... "I feel like I have enough love for the whole world at this moment". This indescribable sensation lasted a few hours ... I had some difficulty trying to get to sleep that night.

On December 7, 2003 I found myself sitting in this same chapel on top of Mount Carmel Israel. A couple of months earlier my inner voice told me to be in Mount Carmel on December 8th ... the feast day of the Immaculate Conception. Who asked me? ... Don't know ... it was one of those interior 'locutions'. Later that day I learned that the actual site of the showdown between Elijah and the prophets of Baal was about 25 kilometers away.

The next morning (December 8th) I decided to go to this Al Muhakra ... the site of Elijah's showdown. I arrived about 4:00PM ... the place was deserted and it was almost closing time ... a short yet pleasant visit ... nothing special. On my way out of the place I realized it was almost 4:30 and I hadn't been to mass yet ... I had a 5-6 kilometer walk back to the village and I was told finding a bus back to Haifa after dark(5:30PM) would be difficult. Seemed getting to the church on time for mass would now be impossible ... oh well! ... I didn't feel particularly disturbed.

Walking along the road I said to Mary ... "I am on my way down the mountain and if You want me to attend mass You will have to get me back to Haifa before 6:00 PM" … the time for the last mass.

A 100 meters or so down the road there was a small white car parked on the opposite side of the road. As I was walking alongside the car, on the opposite side of the road, the driver and I exchanged glances. He asked me if I wanted a ride into town ... hmmm! On the way into town he explained how and where I might find a ride into Haifa ... a 'sherut' ... a communal taxi of sorts. I found the 'sherut' and I was sitting in a pew in the church at ten minutes before six ... hmmm! Unbelievable!! Seems Mary did want me to attend mass that day.

During this same trip to Israel I was almost arrested in Bethlehem ... I spontaneously decided to visit the home of suspected Palestinian terrorists in Bethlehem. In Canada, on my way to the Toronto airport, walking back to the bus station in Brampton, ... on this particular trip I took a rather circuitous route to the airport ... still don't know why, a stranger had told me about this 'miracle baby' born in ??? (He wasn't sure).

While in Jerusalem, I read an article about this 'miracle baby' and learned that the family lived in Bethlehem ... thought to myself ... why not go visit this child? As I write this ... it reminds me of the Three Wise men who went to visit the 'miracle child' born in Bethlehem 2000 years ago.

I had no idea how dangerous such a visit could be ... a few minutes after leaving the house I was accosted by several Israeli soldiers ... I hadn't given any thought to the possibility that I could be considered a 'terrorist suspect' simply by visiting the home ... yikes!!

I was saved in Rachael's tomb ... a minute or two after reading the inscription on Rachael's tomb ... Joseph speaking to his mother ... something to the effect ... "mother ...come up out of your tomb and help me" ... Rachael's response was ... " go wherever God takes you and do not worry He will protect you"

Fortunately for me, one of the Israeli gentlemen visiting the tomb spoke a little English ... he heard the bus running, the bus that chauffeurs the Orthodox Jews to and from Rachael's tomb, which is in Palestine territory. The bus had just dropped off several men and was waiting just outside the door ... he suggested I hurry ... get on the bus and get a ride to the check point at the entrance to Bethlehem. I had been told by Israeli soldiers a few minutes earlier that I was not allowed to leave the tomb. I ran out and climbed on the bus ... whew!!

Also on this same visit to Israel, I would unexpectedly visit a place called Megiddo ... formerly known as Har Megiddo. Some say this is the place referred to as 'Armageddon' in the Book of Revelations.

I had lots to think about on my flight back to Canada ... why did I feel I had been asked to visit Mount Carmel on December 8th? ... A specific location on a specific date. Why did I take the circuitous route to the airport? Why did the stranger on the street in Brampton tell me about this 'miracle baby'? Why did I feel compelled to visit this 'miracle baby' in Bethlehem? Why did I visit Megiddo on the way home?? Only questions ... as always ... no answers!!

I had a similar experience of 'being asked' to do something in particular in June 2000. I was sitting in a chapel in Lisieux France, home of St Therese of the Child Jesus and I experienced another one of those 'interior locutions' ... asking me to walk from Lourdes France to Fatima Portugal via Santiago Compostella. I had left Canada planning to walk from Col Somport to Santiago Compostella. Within 2 weeks I was walking out of Lourdes ... direction Fatima.

I would learn after arriving in Fatima that the 'Third Secret' of Fatima was made public the same day I left Lourdes ... June 26, 2000 ... this 'Third Secret' had remained unpublished for more than 50 years.

Seems to me there are only 3 possibilities concerning the 'pledge of the remainder of my life' to the Blessed Virgin Mary in October of 1995:

1.The story of the Blessed Virgin Mary is only a 'myth' and I have used this 'myth' as a crutch to keep going after the trauma of my marital separation in July 1995.

2.The story of the Blessed Virgin Mary is true and She declined my offer in 1995 ... I am not worthy to be Her servant.

3.The story of the Blessed Virgin Mary is true and She accepted my offer in 1995 ... and She has been my guide, protector, comforter etc for the past fifteen years.

The 3rd possibility scares me the most. My often times unusual behavior of the past almost 15 years could perhaps be solved with the regular consumption of lots of alcohol and/or some good drugs. On the other hand, if the 3rd possibility is in fact true ... YIKES!!
[/quote]
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby phyllo » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:11 pm

Why do you have to go to all those places?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:55 pm

phyllo wrote:Why do you have to go to all those places?


Excellent question Phyllo ... I can only answer with a metaphor.

When you sit in a boat with a large sail and no rudder ... you go where ever the boat takes you.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Who is Lady Wisdom? ... the Biblical Icon

Postby phyllo » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:08 pm

When you sit in a boat with a large sail and no rudder ... you go where ever the boat takes you.
But you're attributing these travels to the will of the Virgin Mary or God. It seems odd that She/He/They would want you to wander around (aimlessly?).

Of course, you might be choosing to wander around because you want to. IOW, maybe God got nothing to do with it.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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