The Ethics of Divinity

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

The Ethics of Divinity

Postby Mackerni » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:42 am

Okay. So. Imagine you are a deity in control of a Universe. You can do whatever you want all the time. You are everywhere and have all the classical attributes we give deities.

What would be considered ethical, and what would be considered not? Should you create life, support it, and let it thrive from your works? Should you intervene in the matters of mortal affairs? Would they demand too much, and want to become a God such as you? What would be the most benevolent thing to do as a creator of a Universe? Should you do that, or should you be free to do whatever the heck you want to do?

This topic is shown on the Futurama episode, "Godfellas".

I guess it all boils down to this: What are the ethics of divinity? Are there rules to being a God? Should there be? Also, if there is a God is there a good reason why he doesn't interfere in our affairs?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject matter.
"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"
User avatar
Mackerni
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby James S Saint » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:42 am

Mackerni wrote:I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject matter.

Are you sure?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 24517
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby Mackerni » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:59 am

James S Saint wrote:Are you sure?


Yes.
"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"
User avatar
Mackerni
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby Pandora » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:52 am

The gods are not subject to ethics.

More like whims than ethics, if they're conscious. The gods are bored and we're their entertainment. WHO or WHAT can question a god?

Image

Or better yet, the deity itself cannot do anything because we are just its dream. :P

Image
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3582
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby Mackerni » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:49 am

Pandora wrote:The gods are not subject to ethics.

More like whims than ethics, if they're conscious. The gods are bored and we're their entertainment. WHO or WHAT can question a god?

Or better yet, the deity itself cannot do anything because we are just its dream. :P


I just have one thing to say to that...



I didn't really tell you my stance on this issue when I posted this thread.

Let me tell you my opinion then.

God must be benevolent. I don't consider a deity God unless that deity does good, and only good. Of course, this means sacrificing a large amount of freedom for security, but that's the price you have to pay for divinity. I think it all boils down to this: if God was apparent, then many people would ask God things that would either make him malevolent or not unique. If someone demanded God to give him a trillion dollars, it would severely hurt the economy if that wish was granted. As well, some people would demand to be a God themselves, and thus God wouldn't be unique. I think, if there is a God, it would only make sense that he purposely doesn't reveal himself - to do the most good. I see God creating the Universe, evolution, the big bang and the like, and humans are slowly but surely discovering the process to which this works. I also see to it that there will be a species - a post-human species, that will be equal to God but reversely opposite to him - being conscious, having freedom, obtaining divine wisdom, knowledge and benevolence.

When this happens, the Omega Point as it is called by Teilhard, then these qualities would merge with things such as ubiquity and eternalness. I see life as a test - the test is to reach this point someday. I would also attest to the belief that not only did God create these processes and purposely does not interfere with our lives on purpose, but also that there are limitations to this deity - this Omniverse - that forces it to not directly interfere with humans affairs. In other words, it's impossible for God to intersect with our lives. Thus I view the creation and the creator as two halves to one puzzle. Either are really God but when they come together in perfect harmony all will be made just. Anything else - any jealousy, pity or an unwise notion, and that God is just a mere deity. Not the one true God.
"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"
User avatar
Mackerni
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby phyllo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:12 pm

I don't consider a deity God unless that deity does good, and only good.
You must be the only one who thinks so. Mythology and scripture is full of evil, malevolent, fickle, jealous, nasty gods.
Of course, this means sacrificing a large amount of freedom for security, but that's the price you have to pay for divinity.
Gods would pay a price?? To who and how?

God is not accountable to anyone. That's one of the perks of being God. If God is good it's because that is the nature of God.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9486
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby Mackerni » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:47 pm

phyllo wrote:You must be the only one who thinks so. Mythology and scripture is full of evil, malevolent, fickle, jealous, nasty gods.


I would not consider those Gods. They fall short of omni-benevolence and I would also say omni-science. Of course, you can unlimited potency without those attributes, but without those other two qualities God falls short. Also, I would say that the most benevolent and wise thing to do is to not interfere in mortal affairs, which means that in a very real sense there could be an impersonal God. But an impersonal, and also in my opinion, unconscious God isn't really God at all until life can sprung it forth into existence.

I'm not saying one can't be a deity and be vengeful. But a deity doesn't have all the attributes of a true God. There is a bar that must be set and I just raised it. While not everybody might not feel the same, I'm sure there's a LOT of people who feel the same as I do. It's a fallacy to think not.

phyllo wrote:Gods would pay a price?? To who and how?

God is not accountable to anyone. That's one of the perks of being God. If God is good it's because that is the nature of God.


It's funny because Christians and other Abrahamic religions portray God as omni-benevolent but in actuality he really isn't. To pray and to worship to a vengeful God is not so smart. God is accountable to his creation. A God that kills millions of people, as the God the Bible, does not hold the true qualities of a supreme deity, and must be viewed as mere deity and not the true God. Again, we could argue about this all day and both of us would use circular logic to do so, but I think we have vastly different beliefs of what God is.

So, in order to save time I would like to say STOP, and just admit we have differences in opinion. You aren't going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to change your's. And I really don't want to spend days debating a false idea! The moment we can agree to disagree is the moment we make progress. I do understand where you are coming from. God isn't God if he can't be himself. But I also understand my argument as well. God cannot be God if he isn't wise and good. Technically, I don't even believe a God exists right now. Now, we could argue at what degree God needs to be benevolent to be worthy of divinity, but yet again, circular logic. I also believe that God isn't good simply by his nature, but because its a requirement to be God.

I know that what we are talking about falls into the realm of discussion that I laid before us. However that may be, I don't like arguing over semantics. (I do realize that true philosophy is just that, however.)
"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"
User avatar
Mackerni
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby James S Saint » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:58 pm

One might as well demand of mathematics that it is more ethical to have 2+2=5.

The child looks with scorn upon his father, "Thou art SO immature!"

Is one being stubborn? Or is it that there is something missing something in one's reasoning?
      aka. Does one know one's ass from a hole in one's ground?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 24517
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby phyllo » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:11 pm

So, in order to save time I would like to say STOP, and just admit we have differences in opinion. You aren't going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to change your's.
I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm just saying that some of your statements seem to be reflections of your wants and needs rather than requirements of a god. Somebody besides you might read this and he/she might be convinced by my posts.

The concept of God as omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent is a very Christian idea. I don't think it even makes logical sense but people believe it.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 9486
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: The Ethics of Divinity

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:12 pm

Gods have no ethics, they are garbage gods who drown themselves in hedonisms of heaven to ignore the screams of the mortals below.
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
the Grandmother.
 
Posts: 7753
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm


Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users