The Phenomenon of Man ... Wo-man

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

What are God's laws?

There is only one ... get drunk on agape ... selfless ... LOVE

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

I heard many years ago that the OT can be summed up in 9 words and the NT in one word.

OT ... I am your God and you are My people.

NT ... LOVE

[WendyDarling]

I like care better. Care for yourself and for others, including God. Care is more directive, less ambiguous.

Care for all that lives.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

I like care better. Care for yourself and for others, including God. Care is more directive, less ambiguous.

Care for all that lives.

Wendy ... you have such a way with words ... such a "feminine" way.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

I've written many times ... words in and of themselves are impotent.

Readers ... be vigilant ... you may feel someone tapping you on your left shoulder ... someone who wants to give you an experience of agape love ... an experience involving God.

[Pandora]

For example, the Second "Law" of Thermodynamics has been proven wrong for over a century...

Show me.

[James S Saint]

For example, the Second "Law" of Thermodynamics has been proven wrong for over a century...

Show me.

Science Forum

But first, prepare and read up on Maxwell's Demon (1867).

[phyllo]

NT ... LOVE

I like care better. Care for yourself and for others, including God. Care is more directive, less ambiguous.

Care for all that lives.

Good thing that Jesus was a bit more verbose.

[phyllo]

In a word ... "arrogance"

Attempts to usurp the authority ... superiority of God.

Organizations attract people with authoritarian personalities. That's not going to change.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

NT ... LOVE

I like care better. Care for yourself and for others, including God. Care is more directive, less ambiguous.

Care for all that lives.

Good thing that Jesus was a bit more verbose.

Really?

2,000 years of the "ping pong" of verbosity has literally killed the story of Jesus. Simple fatigue and frustration ... the absence of a clear and credible critical mass to the story ... seems to have driven the most pious of believers away.

What is the alternative?

Silence!

In todays' world silence is about as attractive as a shit sandwich for lunch.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

In a word ... "arrogance"

Attempts to usurp the authority ... superiority of God.

Organizations attract people with authoritarian personalities.

Well yeah! ... like flies to shit!

Probably explains why the Hebrews are still waiting for a "messiah" ... they have always expected an "authoritarian personality" ... seems to be a natural outcome of patriarchal society(s).

That's not going to change.

The one thang that is absolutely certain ... beyond the shadow of doubt ... universal ... is "change".

Yet ... that reality provides no assurance ... one way or the other ... that the change you mentioned will remain cast in stone.

[phyllo]

Probably explains why the Hebrews are still waiting for a "messiah" ... they have always expected an "authoritarian personality" ... seems to be a natural outcome of patriarchal society(s).

Ever heard of domineering mothers?

[phyllo]

Really?

2,000 years of the "ping pong" of verbosity has literally killed the story of Jesus. Simple fatigue and frustration ... the absence of a clear and credible critical mass to the story ... seems to have driven the most pious of believers away.

What is the alternative?

Silence!

In todays' world silence is about as attractive as a shit sandwich for lunch.

What? You think that even Jesus should have kept his mouth shut?

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

Really?

2,000 years of the "ping pong" of verbosity has literally killed the story of Jesus. Simple fatigue and frustration ... the absence of a clear and credible critical mass to the story ... seems to have driven the most pious of believers away.

What is the alternative?

Silence!

In todays' world silence is about as attractive as a shit sandwich for lunch.

What? You think that even Jesus should have kept his mouth shut?

Hardly!

I would like to 'know' what Jesus said ... unfortunately His words are suffocated in obfuscation across time and space.

While my comments may seem pejorative ... my intention is the opposite.

All that has transpired is part of the puzzle.

The 'god' of science hasn't done much better ... seems science is as malleable as religious doctrine/dogma.

1) Newtonian laws of gravity are being challenged today.

2) JSS claims the second law of thermodynamics has been refuted.

3) Hawkins flip flopping on his black hole theory(s) in the past 10 years or so.

[phyllo]

Don't worry.

If the sky is falling, you can still use Newtonian mechanics to calculate when it will hit you. Newtons laws are suitable for 99.9% of the problems that you will encounter on Earth.

Engineers will still calculate entropy, in spite of what James says.

I can't believe that theories of black holes carry that much weight.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

Don't worry.

If the sky is falling, you can still use Newtonian mechanics to calculate when it will hit you. Newtons laws are suitable for 99.9% of the problems that you will encounter on Earth.

It's the 0.1 % that may do us all in.

Engineers will still calculate entropy, in spite of what James says.

I can't believe that theories of black holes carry that much weight.

That's my point ... the man of science extrapolates on "what he knows" far beyond "what he knows"

The man of religion/spirituality extrapolates on "what he knows" far beyond "what he knows"

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

Spiritualist: Spirit is substance ... though invisible.


Scientist: Provide me with a flask filled with spirit ... I will examine it through the prism of known science and share my
results.

Spiritualist: Spirit can not be harnessed ... therefore I can not provide you with a flask full of spirit.

Scientist: Awe! ... then the conclusion is simple ... spirit does not exist. Furthermore, since God is spirit ... God does not exist.

Place your bets folks.

[WendyDarling]

I'll bet all of humanity on God for a gazillion in Spanish Galleon gold coins. Hey, I'm part Jew.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

I'll bet all of humanity on God for a gazillion in Spanish Galleon gold coins. Hey, I'm part Jew.

Wendy ... there is some thang bout ya that folks gotta luv ... you manage to inject a delightful sense of humour into an immensely serious issue. kudos to you!

In a previous post I wrote ... the 'god" of science is malleable"

I probably should explain my meaning ...

True Science is not malleable ... man's science is malleable ... ergo ... as man increases his knowledge of True Science he revises his story.

Paraphrasing ... True Science is "Immutable".

Some religious/spiritual people argue that God is "Immutable".

Using the science of mathematics ... if A=B and B=C ... than A=C

Et Voila ... the fusion of True Science and God.

Now if only we could get the man of philosophy to join the same party ... something exciting could really begin to happen.

[Pandora]

But first, prepare and read up on Maxwell's Demon (1867).

I'll check it out. 1867 eh?

[phyllo]

In a previous post I wrote ... the 'god" of science is malleable"

I probably should explain my meaning ...

True Science is not malleable ... man's science is malleable ... ergo ... as man increases his knowledge of True Science he revises his story.

Paraphrasing ... True Science is "Immutable".

What you describe is the limitation of human knowledge. As one discovers more, one gets closer to "what actually is". But that's true of all human knowledge ... history, philosophy, economics, etc.

Some religious/spiritual people argue that God is "Immutable".

Then they are wrong. Knowledge of God is just as limited as scientific knowledge. Therefore, God is "malleable" in exactly the same sense as "the 'god' of science". Sure, there is a "True God" out there, but humans don't know that True God.

[phyllo]

Spiritualist: Spirit is substance ... though invisible.


Scientist: Provide me with a flask filled with spirit ... I will examine it through the prism of known science and share my
results.

Spiritualist: Spirit can not be harnessed ... therefore I can not provide you with a flask full of spirit.

Scientist: Awe! ... then the conclusion is simple ... spirit does not exist. Furthermore, since God is spirit ... God does not exist.

Place your bets folks.

If spirit is substance, then where is this substance?

If spirit is substance, then why can't it be "grabbed" or harnessed?

Energy is not substance but one can see it in the motion of physical objects. Can one see the workings of spirit in any consistent way?

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

In a previous post I wrote ... the 'god" of science is malleable"

I probably should explain my meaning ...

True Science is not malleable ... man's science is malleable ... ergo ... as man increases his knowledge of True Science he revises his story.

Paraphrasing ... True Science is "Immutable".

What you describe is the limitation of human knowledge. As one discovers more, one gets closer to "what actually is". But that's true of all human knowledge ... history, philosophy, economics, etc.

Good morning Phyllo

Agreed ... yet wouldn't it be nice if Science, Philosophy and Religion could converge ... all else is subordinate to these three (insert here).

Some religious/spiritual people argue that God is "Immutable".

Then they are wrong. Knowledge of God is just as limited as scientific knowledge. Therefore, God is "malleable" in exactly the same sense as "the 'god' of science". Sure, there is a "True God" out there, but humans don't know that True God.

Agreed ... yet wouldn't it be nice to "know". Sure it may take another million years ... than again a tsunami change in human consciousness could happen any day now ... as a result of one of those gravitational waves.

[pilgrim-seeker_tom]

Spiritualist: Spirit is substance ... though invisible.


Scientist: Provide me with a flask filled with spirit ... I will examine it through the prism of known science and share my
results.

Spiritualist: Spirit can not be harnessed ... therefore I can not provide you with a flask full of spirit.

Scientist: Awe! ... then the conclusion is simple ... spirit does not exist. Furthermore, since God is spirit ... God does not exist.

Place your bets folks.

If spirit is substance, then where is this substance?

If spirit is substance, then why can't it be "grabbed" or harnessed?

Energy is not substance but one can see it in the motion of physical objects. Can one see the workings of spirit in any consistent way?

Within the ILP audience ... at least most of the ILP audience ... the notion of "spirit as substance" is gobbly gook.

Yet within the larger community ... across time and space ... there are countless individuals ... in all cultures and geographies ... that testify ... by their life or by their words ... that spirit is substance ... spirit is omnipresent ... Spirit is God.

[phyllo]

Agreed ... yet wouldn't it be nice if Science, Philosophy and Religion could converge ... all else is subordinate to these three (insert here).

I see a benefit from having a diversity of approaches so I don't think that convergence is necessarily good.

One could say " wouldn't it be nice if got rid frying, sauteing, barbecuing and just boiled all food".

Well no, it wouldn't be nice.

Within the ILP audience ... at least most of the ILP audience ... the notion of "spirit as substance" is gobbly gook.

Yet within the larger community ... across time and space ... there are countless individuals ... in all cultures and geographies ... that testify ... by their life or by their words ... that spirit is substance ... spirit is omnipresent ... Spirit is God.

Then you have to clarify what you and those other people mean by the word 'substance'.

This is a dictionary defn :

substance :
1 A particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
2 The real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/substance