All of it is gods fault

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All of it is gods fault

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:58 am

If you create the universe...

Everything is your fault, by definition.

God could have created everyone going to heaven forever, or created baby rape.

God created baby rape.

I know why people worship god, it's the same reason trump is president - apologetics for being a fascist asshole dictator
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Some Guy in History » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:48 pm

Fuck you. How could one being create it all? It only flowed through that entity and you want to blame that on it when it didn't have much of a choice in the matter? You added your touches to it, Ecmandu; you know you did. Where is your personal responsibility and how could you shirk it to blame it all on one being.

I'm going to blame you for you existence and being a little bitch even though you didn't have a choice in either one and I'm going to condemn you to an eternal Hell for all that you've done that you barely understood and again, had no choice in, and believe me when I say I'm not lying, you will go through Hell eternal for the things you had no choice in and remember back on the days when you blamed 'God', blamed the creator for simply adding his own touches that you failed to understand and put it in motion and remember when, in direct response, the lord replied and said 'Fuck you.'
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:08 pm

Ha!

I'm trying to send everyone to philosophic zombie universes!

I'm blameless!
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Some Guy in History » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:09 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Ha!

I'm trying to send everyone to philosophic zombie universes!

I'm blameless!

That's like claiming to be innocent. Nobody is innocent.
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Ecmandu » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:13 pm

Random Factor wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Ha!

I'm trying to send everyone to philosophic zombie universes!

I'm blameless!

That's like claiming to be innocent. Nobody is innocent.


I am.

Put me on trial.
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Some Guy in History » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:07 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Random Factor wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:Ha!

I'm trying to send everyone to philosophic zombie universes!

I'm blameless!

That's like claiming to be innocent. Nobody is innocent.


I am.

Put me on trial.


Okay. You're guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Ready, get set.... Go.
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Amorphos » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:55 pm

everyone is innocent in a causal universe.

if original sin is true [its not] then I agree its Gods.
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Some Guy in History » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:04 pm

Amorphos wrote:everyone is innocent in a causal universe.

if original sin is true [its not] then I agree its Gods.


Why is it Gods? And why do you assume that because we live in a Causal Universe that everyone is innocent? Are you confusing the definition of innocence with 'ignorance'?

And even if everyone were innocent, how then would they prove it without moving past their ignorant innocence to prove it and in proving it prove themselves not to, through the knowledge of what made them innocent being forbidden?

And at that point of thinking that everyone is innocent in a causal universe, you can't even say it in a cohesive and conjoining way as to say what you insinuate that you agree everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If you've ever been innocent by what should be, and put through the system knowing you were innocent of wrong-doing, you would note very quickly that it is guilty until proven innocent and they don't give you the time or space to prove innocence and just assume guilt. Why do you think the police arrest before a trial; why it never even gets to trial most of the time these days, but gets plea-bargained out, and the afterlife and eternity are no different. Before you even prove your innocence, someone on a warpath kills you just for your idiocy.
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Amorphos » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:29 pm

Why is it Gods? And why do you assume that because we live in a Causal Universe that everyone is innocent?


Cause is caused by cause and if God is the creator, then he caused all original causes. We don’t make the causes and situations we find ourselves in = are innocent [irrespective of ignorance]. being innocent is not the same as being ignorant; a killer has the genes to be a killer because we all do [nature], they could know what they are doing but the situation and the reasons are the causes which make them act that way.

guilty until proven innocent


I agree Napoleonic politics occurs, even though British justice is supposed to be the opposite. I don’t think they know what else to do with things, so rather than understand causality they just throw people in jail. It is more expedient to just do that, but if we want to actually improve the situation, surely we need to find ways of dealing with situation [prevention] and its causes where blame achieves nothing. For example, if a guys dad beats the crap out him during childhood, and that guy becomes violent, then that’s causality with no blame for that individual. What we need to do and women too, is find ways to prevent such causes and not put half the planet in jail.

Do we want to live on a prison planet?
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:42 pm

No blame for that individual? Are you saying that they felt good about their received beatings, so never felt that the violence perpetrated against them was wrong?
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Ecmandu » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:48 pm

Evil (guilt) is that which harms against the will to eliminate harm against the will.

It is classified in two distinct forms:

Not having the conscience to realize within
Not having the drive to act upon good when told by others.

Anyone who wants to be better than others in this world and cares about harm will someday realize that being better is the root of harm, and they will never be happy with their spoils once they see this profound problem: that no matter what you do, you're going to hurt someone in this zero sum world system.

The goal then is to not scramble for superiority here, but for a different world system entirely.

I am innocent of clause 1 and 2 of evil ...

It took me 40 years to get there
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Some Guy in History » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:59 pm

Amorphos wrote:
Why is it Gods? And why do you assume that because we live in a Causal Universe that everyone is innocent?


Cause is caused by cause and if God is the creator, then he caused all original causes. We don’t make the causes and situations we find ourselves in = are innocent [irrespective of ignorance]. being innocent is not the same as being ignorant; a killer has the genes to be a killer because we all do [nature], they could know what they are doing but the situation and the reasons are the causes which make them act that way.

guilty until proven innocent


I agree Napoleonic politics occurs, even though British justice is supposed to be the opposite. I don’t think they know what else to do with things, so rather than understand causality they just throw people in jail. It is more expedient to just do that, but if we want to actually improve the situation, surely we need to find ways of dealing with situation [prevention] and its causes where blame achieves nothing. For example, if a guys dad beats the crap out him during childhood, and that guy becomes violent, then that’s causality with no blame for that individual. What we need to do and women too, is find ways to prevent such causes and not put half the planet in jail.

Do we want to live on a prison planet?


If God is the creator, how did he create; how do we create? I know the answer, I can explain it and then expect you to understand it and know it to be true based on evidence and logic, but that's being overly idealistic in my expectations. To blame it all on God is still faulty and I could prove it and have and still, here we are, so what's the point. I'm continually disappointed and disgusted with the rate of progress of others in understanding the concepts that I wrap my head around so easily; too easy to get pissed off at how long it's taking them to actually show better. It's not that I'm impatient or intolerant, but it has everything to do with the facts of the matter and being an emotional being.

I think, technically, we already do live on a prison planet. We can't get off of it. And, we might as well be in prisons for where each person is behind the eyes and outwardly. I think that outwardly, we express our 'truths' as what we want society to be, a shining ideal; we don't intentionally lie, it's what we actually think it is at times, more than we should for what it truly is and where we truly are. What we actually are isn't too far removed from the idealistic version, and yet very far from it all the same. It is what we want, that we are innocent until proven guilty, but the truth is that it isn't that and while it can be at times, we're often disappointed when we let that guard down for what moves in in the process of letting it down. We d the best we can for what it is, how things are and, in truth, do better than the appearance of things, but we're cracking at the seams, and breaking down behind the scenes and all I did was catch it all when it began to fell; broke a few reality barriers a few years back, tossed it all up in the air and learned how to juggle the hard way and still it all falls down around me like so many falling plates breaking, balls bouncing off me and around me and so much glass shattering and like shrapnel impaling and shredding all around and there was nothing any of us could do; caught up in the motion of events from ages past, from the future and all around us, in motion before we had a chance to find our feet and finding out that things were too little and too late.

What we fight for in our youths, all around, isn't what we continue to fight for as our years pass by, regardless of face-value, regardless of what goes on on the surface of our interactions, but those surface distractions and the emotions that fly mixed with the under the surface interactions and the extreme shit storms that fly there...

All I speak are simple truths, I don't mean to disillusion, but know that I do, don't mean to impale others on the truths I've come to know, non-pessimistically and even sometimes optimistically, but I know that I do. I would still rather have it be what it all claims itself to be and under the surface; scratch; and see that it still is as much as it can be; but all I do is embrace the truth to figure out the best way to proceed and to some extent, I am grudgingly still having to admit that some things were right that I really wish hadn't been, and yet they still aren't as right as they claimed to be and I'm tired of assuming that they're upset by it, because what they see in what is called negativity isn't what many of them want and we're all suffering here.

So, when I look at it objectively and subjectively, even self-righteously and righteously, with myself as God incarnate in the flesh and then from the outside viewing the greater God-being, all I see is that any creator is only partially responsible for their creations and those creations must at some point take some responsibility for themselves because none of us had a choice but to exist once we were on the scene and once we started fucking and giving birth and creating our own creations, how could we blame God for our creations if God can't even be fully blamed for his own? And when I look at it as such, do I blame myself? Of course I do, to take personal responsibility is to accept blame, to accept fault and such acceptance isn't stupid when the fault and the blame is there, where it becomes stupid is when we take more than our fair share, of that we can all be agreed that it is stupid to be greedy.

And when I do look at it as such, then God, no matter how powerful of a creator, no matter how great, is still just another equal that has been accredited and faulted and blamed for far too much that it did not do.
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Ecmandu » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:31 pm

I know how to answer it!

You cannot abstract the infinite without the discrete nor the discrete without the infinite.

For every discrete, there must be the infinite, and for every infinite, there must be the discrete.

For time to have never started, it must start

Count to infinity?!

Oh that's right!

You need discrete measures to count with - otherwise, no infinity

In order for time to be infinite, it must have starts

An infinite number of starts
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Re: All of it is gods fault

Postby Some Guy in History » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:46 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I know how to answer it!

You cannot abstract the infinite without the discrete nor the discrete without the infinite.

For every discrete, there must be the infinite, and for every infinite, there must be the discrete.

For time to have never started, it must start

Count to infinity?!

Oh that's right!

You need discrete measures to count with - otherwise, no infinity

In order for time to be infinite, it must have starts

An infinite number of starts


The only thing infinite is the fact that there is no infinite, only beyond the finite and the finite repeated. There is no infinite without the finite, no finite without the confusion of it being infinite and being some convoluted and fucked up compromise of what's wrong and right at the same time, and I've seen the truth beyond the lies and the lies that stand in place of the truth and each of those is a truth of the psychology of our reality, of the people and things around us; a truth of society, a truth of universal deceit in a reality where everybody can handle the truth and can't at the same time. Paradox over paradox and then in the same equation as paradox triumphed over paradox fell to, in the same equation as paradox thought around without triumph or falling, third options and fourth options, green, red and blue beyond black and white, yellows and ochers and reds and oranges, purples and browns. Like tan equations in trigonometry, but so wholly different and maybe all too similar for comfort, is a thought I had recently as I thought of the paradox equations with others in the mind and compared it to trig that I saw, in all things, a comic called Love Hina; a manga; once a webcomic.

And, I've gotten used to this, this feeding me of information when I need it, when I can make use of it; a path laid out before me where even the out of the ways don't get me angry because I find something of worthy in even them, before backtracking to where I was again.

Where the paths end and the walls knock you down, do you have what it takes to travel the broken paths? to step from what is there and prescribed? Do you have what it takes to knock the walls down or go around or under or over them, like so many ants in a line? Do you have what it takes to take a leap of faith where you know that you don't have enough to make the journey based on what you know, but to go back is no longer an option you want to take; a leap of faith that you'll either make it to where you're going, or you'll die and you just take that leap and walk those broken paths, break down the walls, get around in so many ways outside of the box, bending with the winds, riding the waves, finding your feet underneath you to keep up on them even when all seems intent to knock you down. And, it's like I'm preaching to a silent choir that's seen it, been it, done it, but just can't say it, couldn't see it, had to have help finding their feet, but refuse to admit it, we play these games of back and forth, avoid the truth because it's too intimate, too sensitive, and we're too tired of having our heartstrings tugged, our emotions caching us up and out.

In the end, it will have out; wax on and wax off, when it waxes and wanes and rains and sunny days. Going into the future is something we do regardless; change is what we do whether we look at it, notice it, or not. But to go into the future knowing, accepting change, to look it dead in the eyes just the same as staring death down and braving the abyss; takes balls. To completely turn your back on the past because you've squared away with it and are ready to push off to wherever you go next... that's something that takes too much to put into everyone and everything, and yet the potential is always there. For all that people go together, they still have to walk it again later on their own and see it play out entirely different.
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