Why God is inherently right

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:51 am

gib wrote:
pilgrim_tom wrote:
phyllo wrote:Canadian, eh?


Yup!


A fellow Canadian too, eh? Where aboots in Canada are you?


I'm not living der at the moment ... spent most of the last 11 years in China ... grew up in Northern Ontario ... spent most of my adult life in Southern Ontario ... never lived in Toronto.

Time zones suggest you live in the West? How many generations your family been in Canada?
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby James S Saint » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:20 pm

Eleven YEARS in China?!? :shock:

dat bealot.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby gib » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:58 pm

pilgrim_tom wrote:I'm not living der at the moment ... spent most of the last 11 years in China ... grew up in Northern Ontario ... spent most of my adult life in Southern Ontario ... never lived in Toronto.

Time zones suggest you live in the West? How many generations your family been in Canada?


On my dad's side, I'm the first to be born in Canada. Before that, he was in Iraq. On my mom's side... oh, lots. I think at least 3. Before that, they were British.
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“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:02 am

James S Saint wrote:Eleven YEARS in China?!? :shock:

dat bealot.


Oui ... t'as raison! :-)

James ... I have long ... and hard ... pondered the purpose of my time in China. Some of the stuff that popped into my consciousness ... in no particular order is:

1) In part an escape from the pain associated with proximity to my family in Canada. I have often thought and stated that my immediate family, friends, acquaintances ... ergo ... everyone ... has consistently rejected and persecuted me. Today I realized I was lying to myself and others. More accurately stated all these people are comfortable living with their "world view" which is diametrically opposite to my own. Hasn't always been that way ... I lived the first 43 years of my life with the same world view. At age 43 my world view was turned upside down ... inside out ... ergo ... shattered. I have countless times tried to go back to my old world view for the sake of my family ... it didn't work. I have found that interacting with family despite opposing world views is simply 'duty' ... filial piety ... and duty is a poor proxy for love. The story of my life is exquisitely stated in the words of Paul Anka's song "My Way"

2) In part my fascination with Chinese culture history and philosophy. I arrived with typical preconceived Western notions of China ... Chinese people are oppressed ... atheists ... Communists ... ergo ... evil. My experience has taught me exactly the opposite. Let me share a taste of the irony ... irony for me anyway. October 1, 1949 Mao Zedong became the undisputed leader of China. His famous quote ... "today China has stood up" ... ergo ... before today China was on it's knees. One of the first things Mao Zedong did was order the construction of an "indoctrination centre" for the indoctrination of future Chinese leaders. His choice of location ... Beijing ... is not surprising. His choice of location within Beijing is intriguing. He chose the spot that housed the tombs of Matteo Ricci and about 63 of his successors ... all of them 16th - 17th century Jesuit missionaries. One would expect given Mao Zedong's aversion for all things religious ... especially Western religion ... that he would have ordered the tombs be destroyed or at a minimum relocated. He built the "indoctrination centre" around the tombs ... careful not to disturb them. For the past 66 years or so all the Chinese leaders have often walked by these tombs. Most would argue ... so what! ... insignificant. Yet we all stumble around in the dark ... every day ... ergo ... not a single individual has ever been conscious of Total Reality.

3) An infatuation with the philosophy of Lao Tzu and Confucius ... stemming from my belief in the existence of stunning parallels between Lao Tzu/Confucian thought and Western religious/philosophical thought. Read a story about a well respected Chinese man from Hong Kong. He said ... paraphrasing ... I converted to Christianity because of Confucius ... I converted to RC faith because of Ste Therese of Lisieux.

My recent affection for Zhuang Zi may point to the answer(s) to my dilemma. I was introduced to him many years ago but until very recently I didn't want to dilute my affection for Lao Tzu ... his predecessor. I stumbled on a quote from Zhuang Zi ..
. "I don't know ... with any degree of certainty ... that I don't know"
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:08 am

gib wrote:
pilgrim_tom wrote:I'm not living der at the moment ... spent most of the last 11 years in China ... grew up in Northern Ontario ... spent most of my adult life in Southern Ontario ... never lived in Toronto.

Time zones suggest you live in the West? How many generations your family been in Canada?


On my dad's side, I'm the first to be born in Canada. Before that, he was in Iraq. On my mom's side... oh, lots. I think at least 3. Before that, they were British.


Gib ... there has been some discussion in this OP on the issue "know thyself".

What do you think about the extent "know thyself" depends on the knowledge and scope of one's genetic/DNA/blood lineage?
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby phyllo » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:12 am

Yet we all stumble around in the dark ... every day ... ergo ... not a single individual has ever been conscious of Total Reality.
"total reality" and "certainty" are very important to you. Why?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:20 am

phyllo wrote:
Yet we all stumble around in the dark ... every day ... ergo ... not a single individual has ever been conscious of Total Reality.
"total reality" and "certainty" are very important to you. Why?


Phyllo ... I mentioned in another OP that for the past 25 years I have been on a personal quest for the Holy Grail
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby phyllo » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:31 am

The Holy Grail is certainty?

Why do you need this Grail? What purpose would it serve?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:57 am

phyllo wrote:The Holy Grail is certainty?

Why do you need this Grail? What purpose would it serve?


Let me start by explaining what I mean by "Holy Grail"

the not's first

not Dan Brown's Mary Magdalene

not some cup or chalice from the last supper

not the "Round Table" holy grail

the specifics ...

the 'whole enchilada'

the 'big kahuna'

Some readers may wonder "How will you know if you find it? For me, analogous to the question ... "How do you know when it's time for a poop? ... You just know!

Some readers may wonder "What is there to do after you find it?" Hypothetical in the extreme ... yet I will offer some speculation. For me ... if the 'whole enchilada' is revealed to me it ... it seems logical that my task would be to 'help' others who are on the same path.

Let me explain my use of the word "help" ... I use it in this context ...

Lifting the 'veil' ... removing the 'veil' ... is the purview of the Author of Creation. Those who attempt to usurp this authority are all charlatans.

To your question Phyllo ... I would no longer stumble around in the dark ... I would walk in the light.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:35 am

tom wrote
Some readers may wonder "What is there to do after you find it?" Hypothetical in the extreme ... yet I will offer some speculation. For me ... if the 'whole enchilada' is revealed to me it ... it seems logical that my task would be to 'help' others who are on the same path.

Let me explain my use of the word "help" ... I use it in this context ...

Lifting the 'veil' ... removing the 'veil' ... is the purview of the Author of Creation. Those who attempt to usurp this authority are all charlatans.


Help how exactly? If you know what God knows, what would you be exactly?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:21 am

WendyDarling wrote:tom wrote
Some readers may wonder "What is there to do after you find it?" Hypothetical in the extreme ... yet I will offer some speculation. For me ... if the 'whole enchilada' is revealed to me it ... it seems logical that my task would be to 'help' others who are on the same path.

Let me explain my use of the word "help" ... I use it in this context ...

Lifting the 'veil' ... removing the 'veil' ... is the purview of the Author of Creation. Those who attempt to usurp this authority are all charlatans.


WendyDarling wrote:Help how exactly?


be a "cheer leader"



WendyDarling wrote:If you know what God knows, what would you be exactly?


I would be the same entity I am today ... no change ... simply a "servant"
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:24 am

Wendy ... and other interested readers ... let me try to bring the abstract comments in my previous post(s) to the concrete ... my personal experiences.

Almost 25 years ago I had an "experience" ... for the first few years following this experience I would seek help ... from time to time. I went to doctor(s), psychologist(s), psychiatrist(s), priest(s) ... and one day I was referred to Jack Milan in Guelph ... a wise and learned man ... a Spiritual Director who operates outside the RC church. Inside the RC church one must obey the appointed Spiritual Director. The very well known ... in the global Catholic community ... Ste Teresa of Avila ... is renowned for her comment ... "don't send me any more stupid priests."

Jack informed me in the first few minutes of our first chat that he does not accept cases where he judges the problem to be psychological. He said we would have a few sessions after which time he would decide. One day he said to me ... "think what you want but don't act on your thoughts until you consult with me." I understood this to suggest Jack was thinking my case was spiritual. What Jack didn't know ... I wasn't honest with him ... his comment dealt a mortal blow to our relationship. I have always been too independent and self reliant to submit myself totally to anyone. I stopped seeing Jack a few weeks later ... though I my gratitude for his help stays with me to this day.

I think it was 1996 ... my first trip to Israel ... worked on a kibbutz. One day I decided to give this Spiritual Director thang another shot. I remembered the name of a Franciscan Brother I had met on the phone some time earlier ... I remembered his name Maurice Richard because of my fondness for hockey as a child. I wrote this Franciscan a letter asking him about the role and usefulness of a Spiritual Director. To my great surprise he answered me and I actually received his response while still on the kibbutz ... see snail mail is OK :-)

Father Richard told me in the letter there is only one Spiritual Director ... the Holy Spirit ... the closest another human could get would be a "cheer leader". I have always remembered his sound counsel.
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:58 am

Okay, continue. O:)

You have a spiritual body and a physical body right now. If you go "in"(behind the veil) with your spiritual body, you will have to make a choice once there to stay and explore or return to your physical body. If you worry about your physical body, you will fall from Grace, essentially kicking yourself out of Heaven. I've made that mistake already. Even now, I'm undecided on what I would do should I embark on a return to the Divine before my physical body dies. One moment I love God, the next I'm spitting nails angry with Him. Do I trust? Biggest question there is for me. My answer is WTF?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby gib » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:25 am

pilgrim_tom wrote:What do you think about the extent "know thyself" depends on the knowledge and scope of one's genetic/DNA/blood lineage?


I think it can help in figuring out what in your personality and behavior is genetic and what is unique to you. For example, if you have a passion for music, does it run in your family or is it something you might ween yourself off of? If it runs in your family, that's a good sign it's got its roots stuck deep into your personality and is more or less there to stay. Otherwise, you might think of it as a passing phase, or if it's been with you all your life, you might wonder what caused it to be there? Some life experience? The environment you grew up in?
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“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

- Claire Boucher
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:11 am

WendyDarling wrote:Okay, continue. O:)

You have a spiritual body and a physical body right now. If you go "in"(behind the veil) with your spiritual body, you will have to make a choice once there to stay and explore or return to your physical body. If you worry about your physical body, you will fall from Grace, essentially kicking yourself out of Heaven. I've made that mistake already. Even now, I'm undecided on what I would do should I embark on a return to the Divine before my physical body dies. One moment I love God, the next I'm spitting nails angry with Him. Do I trust? Biggest question there is for me. My answer is WTF?


Wendy ... in my previous posts I shared some concepts I subscribe to ... don't misunderstand me ... being a spiritual cheer leader is a much too serious ... too dangerous ... too risky ... undertaking for a numbscull like me.

Having said that ... here's some more anecdotal support. In the late 90's I made several trips to Medugorje ... Bosnia Hertzgovina. On one of my trips I had a brief encounter with a middle aged man from the Netherlands. He had been in India working with a spiritual Master/Guru and apparently hit a "ceiling" so he came to Medugorje looking for help. One of the priests in Medugorje at the time acted as his cheer leader ... told him to back home and sit still and do nothing for a year. The man was ecstatic about this counsel. Go figure eh!
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:43 am

gib wrote:
pilgrim_tom wrote:What do you think about the extent "know thyself" depends on the knowledge and scope of one's genetic/DNA/blood lineage?


I think it can help in figuring out what in your personality and behavior is genetic and what is unique to you. For example, if you have a passion for music, does it run in your family or is it something you might ween yourself off of? If it runs in your family, that's a good sign it's got its roots stuck deep into your personality and is more or less there to stay. Otherwise, you might think of it as a passing phase, or if it's been with you all your life, you might wonder what caused it to be there? Some life experience? The environment you grew up in?


That makes a lot sense Gib.

Kinda suggests that knowing little or nothing about your ancestors makes the "know thyself" task that much more difficult.

Take my case for example ... if I knew that lots of my ancestors were really messed up ... as in psycho ... I would feel much better about my life :D
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby gib » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:02 pm

pilgrim_tom wrote:Take my case for example ... if I knew that lots of my ancestors were really messed up ... as in psycho ... I would feel much better about my life :D


:lol: You must be joking. ;) ...unless you hide a side to yourself that's completely hidden from us (or me).

In some cases, though, you have to wonder if a certain trait is really passed on genetically or just learnt. For example, they say that the cycle of abuse that is often seen in families where one or both parents abuse their children and that abuse repeats for the next generation, is a result of that very abuse--as in, if took the child from birth and handed him/her over to a couple of foster parents who did not abuse the kid, the cycle would be broken. Or would it? It's hard to tell in these cases whether the abuse is purely learned, purely genetic, or a mix of both. There very well might be a gene that makes one quick to violence, or unable to control their angry outburst, or lacking the skill of solving problems through reason and discussion, etc. My thoughts in my last post make the most sense in regards to ancestors or family members whom you have had little contact with.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:18 am

gib wrote:
pilgrim_tom wrote:Take my case for example ... if I knew that lots of my ancestors were really messed up ... as in psycho ... I would feel much better about my life :D


:lol: You must be joking. ;)


No ... not at all

I don't know of any history of mental illness in my extended family ... nor are there any priests and the like.

Surely I qualify as "weird" or "misfit" ... if not insane.


gib wrote:...unless you hide a side to yourself that's completely hidden from us (or me).


there is a side(s) of me completely hidden from me ... I have always shared what I know about myself.
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby gib » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:54 am

Pilgrim,

All misfits feel like they're "insane"--it's part and parcel of mis-fitting. But there are those who are genuinely psychotic, and there are those more like you and Wendy.

You guys are among the few who make humanity better.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:57 am

Gib

You would have had a Muslim influence in your formative years?
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:01 am

pilgrim_tom wrote:

Almost 25 years ago I had an "experience"



Sexual, spiritual, physical? .........care to elaborate.

It must have had a great impact on you, for you to pursue counselling.
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby gib » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:35 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Gib

You would have had a Muslim influence in your formative years?


Maybe indirectly, but I wasn't raised Muslim. My dad wasn't a practicing Muslim. He came to Canada to get away from that culture. While he was raised Muslim, his father was a banker who instilled Western values and ideals into him. He encouraged my dad to find a better life in the West. When my dad came to Canada, he left all that behind. And when he raised me, he instilled those same Western values into me.

So while I can't say a Muslim upbringing had any formative influence on me directly, it certainly must have for my father, and these kinds of influence don't go away after one generation.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

“Everyone is always like ‘how do you feel about feminism? how do you feel about feminism?’ and it’s like maybe I don’t wanna fucking talk about feminism, maybe I just wanna be a female producer, because it’s like even being a female producer is so rare it drives people fucking crazy. It’s like my sheer existence is like a political act, I think, to a lot of people. It’s not to me.”

- Claire Boucher
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:53 am

A Shieldmaiden wrote:pilgrim_tom wrote:

Almost 25 years ago I had an "experience"



Sexual, spiritual, physical? .........care to elaborate.

It must have had a great impact on you, for you to pursue counselling.


Shieldmaiden ... the experience I refer to is the demarcation line between no conscious awareness and conscious awareness ... the baby chick breaking through the egg shell. Here are some notes I wrote about this experience many years ago.


When did Jesus first call me? I have no idea … I don’t even know that the story of Jesus is true. Perhaps I have been using the story of Jesus as a ‘crutch’ … to get me through the trauma in my life. It doesn’t matter … with faith … with hope … not with knowledge ... I will continue to believe in the story of Jesus. As they say along the Camino Santiago in Spain … Ultreya! … keep going.

I have two thoughts concerning the above question:

Psalm 139 Verses 13 to 18

For it was you who formed my inward parts;
You knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made
Wonderful are your works;
That I know very well.
My frame was not hidden from you,
When I was made in secret,
Intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
Your eyes beheld my unformed substance.
In your book were written
All the days that were formed for me,
When none of them yet existed.
How weighty to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
I try to count them – they are more than the sand;
I come to the end … or I awake … I am still with you.

The above verses talk about the notion of predestination … suggesting I was called by Jesus before I was born … Hmmm!

The second possibility took place at Angie’s Kitchen, a restaurant in Waterloo Ontario in 1993 … a rather innocuous setting and circumstances. I was sitting in the restaurant waiting for a colleague from Waterloo Maple Software … we had arranged a breakfast meeting. While drinking my coffee, my attention drifted to a table not far from mine … where two men were engaged in a conversation. On their table was a large and elegant white book.

For some strange reason I became interested in the book on the table. I approached the strangers and asked how I might obtain a copy of the book. The two men were very friendly and assured me they would send me a copy of the book.

Satisfied, I returned to my table. I recall two additional things that happened while waiting:

I heard … or at least believed I heard … a comment about me … spoken by a priest. Something to the effect that I didn’t know what to do with my life … I was lost.

The two gentlemen opened the large elegant book and were reciting the Beatitudes.

My colleague joined me a few minutes later and we had our breakfast meeting … like nothing had happened while I was waiting.

Nothing earth shattering here eh! The Heavens didn’t open up … the Mountains didn’t tremble. So what’s the big deal eh?

I went home that evening and nonchalantly told my wife … “I saw Jesus today”.

To say the event at Angie’s Kitchen altered my life is a huge understatement … it turned my life upside down … inside out … and completely shattered my world view … a world view that I had been nurturing for 43 years!

So what happened at the restaurant? I still don’t know … but I have learned since that St Augustine had a similar experience in the garden at Milan … the centerpiece of his ‘conversion’. Something to the effect that he heard a child saying … “Pick up the book and read”. St Augustine picked up his Bible and opened it randomly. He literally responded to what he read. St Augustine’s books … Confessions … and … City of God … would have a profound effect on my spiritual journey.

Also, we are told in John’s Gospel that God is the ‘Word Incarnate’ … the ‘Word’ taking on human form. When I said … “I saw Jesus today” … was this my soul reporting it’s experience? … my soul seeing Jesus in the ‘Word Incarnate’?

I was drawn to a book titled ... "The Message" ... this would seem to infer that I am to be a 'messenger' ... perhaps like St John the Baptist ... my mission is to prepare the way for the Lord ... such arrogance eh! ... what vanity!

Briefly, I was struck by LOVE, the notion that LOVE is more important than anything else in life. Again, in John’s Gospel he writes … “God is LOVE.”

This notion of LOVE would cause several ‘storms’ in my life during the following 18 months:
_

1) I would start to meddle in people’s affairs at work earning me the nickname ‘Father Bruce’

2) The large elegant white book never showed up in the mail. I would find a book with the same title … The Message” ... at a book store in North Carolina. By this time I had changed jobs and my new employer sent me to North Carolina on business. Strange that I never connected the book in the restaurant with the Bible even though I heard them reciting the Beatitudes.

3) Several ‘storms’ at home culminating in the termination of my second marriage.

Seems the end of my second marriage opened new doors and several months later I would have my second personal experience with Jesus.

In February 1996, while living at the Maples Inn in Guelph, the only place in Guelph where you could rent a self contained apartment for a day, a week, a month etc. I was still very much in limbo ... no job ... no hobby ... no purpose etc. I read St Teresa of Avilla's book and remember particularly the section titled 'Interior Castles' ... deeply moved or touched by St Teresa's writings about her mystical experiences. Learned later that many scholars consider her writings on mysticism some of the best available; yet she was an uneducated Spanish peasant.

Also read the book on the life of St Francis ... again deeply moved and touched... difficult to explain.

One night while lying on my bed I heard the name Jesus in my mind. I can't remember if I intentionally attempted to form the name or if it arrived in my mind without effort on my part. A few seconds later I felt an 'electrical current' in my body. I can't really explain the feeling. I decided to get my mind to say the word Jesus ... this time intentional ... my lips didn't move ... this all happened in my mind. Again the same result; like an electric current running through my body. I was afraid to do it again. This experience left me with an unusually quiet and peaceful feeling.

Reflecting on this experience today, seems there may be a connection between my ‘Jesus’ experience in my room at the Maples Inn and a few days later my rather abrupt and unexpected privilege of walking the very ground He walked during his life on earth. Scary!

Rev. Karban writes “Most of us live our lives as though they’re just a series of disconnected events. We rarely find anything to join and make sense out of even one day’s happenings, much less a lifetime filled with them. We constantly go from one thing to another without being able to"connect the dots."

Socrates stated “the unexamined life is not worth living”. Surely, Socrates is suggesting that regular and sincere examinations of our life will help us to ‘connect the dots’, discover the thread that holds the countless events of our life together. Our self-portrait is painted by regular and sincere reflections on the ever growing repository of our life experiences.. We will never know who we really are otherwise.

Perhaps my life’s mission was foreshadowed in this room at the Maples Inn … as more and more time passes seems I am becoming increasingly involved with the reconciliation of families.

The notes I wrote in 1995 describe the basis for the ‘mission’ referred to above. The notes follow this writing.

After these 2 personal experiences with Jesus … it seems He sent me back to school … with His Mother … the Virgin Mary … as my teacher … guide … and protector.

The specific experience that is now 'top of mind' was the day I lie on my bed in the Maples Inn … staring at the wall ... looking at four walls is a common pass time for lonely people ... seems I was no exception.

This wall was no ordinary wall ... it was not painted drywall ... bland and empty. This wall was painted bricks ... the large ones .. 8" by 14". The wall served to divide the rooms and support the structure at the same time. Seems the owner was content not to 'dress up' the cement block supporting wall with drywall ... good thing ... or I would not have had the contemplation I am about to share!

1,000's of years ago man learned that if you stack stones in a staggered pattern ... the result is a strong and sturdy wall ... capable of holding up tremendous loads ... the walled cities of Europe and the middle east ... Jerusalem. In times past they didn't use mortar to cement a bond between the stones ... a tight fit was all they used and 1,000's of years ago the 'stone arch' was discovered ... by placing stones in a certain pattern ... each stone pressing against its' neighbors. They built an arch which was used to join two walls ... and soon large and complex buildings ... Parthenon ... Greek Temples etc

Back to the wall in my room at the Maple's Inn ... as I looked at the cement blocks ... neatly piled in a staggered pattern ... and evenly bonded to each other with mortar. It occurred to me that this same structure symbolizes 'civilization' with each cement block representing an individual ... the mortar symbolizes the bond that holds individuals together in a 'collective' ... a tribe ... a clan ... a village ... a family ... a culture ... a society etc

The strength of the bond manifests the strength of the unity of the tribe ... clan ... culture. A wonderful example is the 12 tribes of Judaism ... and equally impressive are the local tribes ... clans of Inuit. The Inuit camp or village was never more than an 'extended' family and seems as they roamed around members of one clan would be given in marriage to members of another clan and so on and so on ... avoiding the obvious threat of 'in-breeding' ... amazing ... profound ... wow!! Contrast this with 'marriage used as a 'tool' to gain more property and consolidate power! ... the ancient ... and perhaps still current custom.

Back to the 'bond' mentioned above ... as I stared at the wall and contemplated this analogy ... I thought of the bond as 'love' ... when 'love' between individuals ... first in a single family ... and simultaneously ... among families who share a common bond ... eg a tribe ... as long as this bond ...'love' remains strong the 'collectives' remain strong ... seems it is directly proportional. The 'bond' ...'love' ... is intangible ... the alchemist gold ... what is the recipe for a solid bond ...'love' ... a mortar that will not disintegrate ... crack ...erode.

Seems to me if we could measure the 'holding' strength or power of the 'bond' between individuals today ... be it individuals within a family ... among families ... within a village ... among villages within a province etc. We would find that the strength has diminished profoundly ... corroded ... disintegrated ... melted ... whatever!!

United we stand ... divided we fall ... my dad would say this expression often when speaking of our family ... the words are so few ... so simple ... so logical ... and yet so profoundly true.... while our minds could easily understand the 'notion' ... this understanding is not enough ... the recipe is more complex and seems we have lost track of the ingredients ... the combination and mixing process etc.

Words are not enough.

Writing these words reminds me of the time I was contemplating potential strategies to destroy the human species ... I placed my mind on the other side of the wall so to speak

The two strategies I remember well are:

· divide and conquer ... a well documented and effective war strategy (united we stand ... divided we fall)

· destroy the female species ... not as in kill all females ... no ... destroy them by distractions … encouraging abdication of their primary role ... to bring new members into the species and nurture their early years ... according to the proper recipe ... prepare them to live out their lives in a 'holistic' and 'healthy' way

Without holistic and healthy young mothers how can we expect healthy and holistic new members. This problem exacerbates itself with successive generations ... becoming progressively worse!

Look at what the woman's liberation movement has done to 'motherhood'

Look what living in this space age costs ... the basic entry price is a 2 member working family ... both the father and the mother ... so now a woman has a fulltime job ... nurturing their children is farmed out to a stranger ... motivated by $$$ only ... for the most part.

Seems to me all young women today are 'damaged' before their first child is born ... psychologically ... emotionally ... and likely physically ... fatigue etc

How many people today require Prozac or equivalent simply to keep going with today’s lifestyle?

We humans are all created in the image and likeness of our 'Creator' ... according to the book of Genesis ... I take the word 'all' at face value ... 'all' .... simply means ... 'all' ... each and every one of us regardless of gender ... sexual orientation ... or religious beliefs etc.

Seems to me for the above statement to be True ... each of us is a 'person' first ... a 'gender' second ... and all else third, fourth etc ... By limiting comments to the level of 'personhood' may provide a common denominator across all genders, cultures, societies etc. Perhaps with such a restriction we can establish a framework for some meaningful contemplation.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:20 am

gib wrote:
A Shieldmaiden wrote:Gib

You would have had a Muslim influence in your formative years?


Maybe indirectly, but I wasn't raised Muslim. My dad wasn't a practicing Muslim. He came to Canada to get away from that culture. While he was raised Muslim, his father was a banker who instilled Western values and ideals into him. He encouraged my dad to find a better life in the West. When my dad came to Canada, he left all that behind. And when he raised me, he instilled those same Western values into me.

So while I can't say a Muslim upbringing had any formative influence on me directly, it certainly must have for my father, and these kinds of influence don't go away after one generation.


Gib ... you are much too modest. Your lineage on your father's side may well go back to the time of the City of UR ... imagine how helpful it might be if you had all the data ... might explain why your life is unfolding the way it is.

Apparently the records are in the Hindu Akashic and the Noosphere. :-)
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: Why God is inherently right

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:30 pm

For god so loves the world that in his idleness and absence allows cruelty or malice to manifest.....bullshit if you ask me.
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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