The cause

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

The cause

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:34 pm

The mind needs a cause to attach itself to, otherwise it descents into Nihilism. If one looks at atheism too deeply life becomes to begin to be pointless.

Intelligent christian males, gifted with science, cling to Christianity because they view it as opposite to modernity - Moderns with no moral values. They view Christianity as the cause, the last bastion of purpose and meaning to their life.

Kevin Solway's cause is to bash religion. People who preach against attachment is suffering...That is the cause, to preach against attachment. They themselves are attached to the cause.

It is no coincidence that all ancient societies even pagans endorsed some kind of gods or religion. The human mind needs eternity to give itself weight and purpose. Otherwise, it begins to jump past the atmosphere, into the outer voids, possibly losing all gravity and attachment to everything. The human mind needs to look forward to an eternity of bliss...Because if it starts to believe that Earth is all there is, a bunch of reincarnations into random bodies, mix of suffering and pleasure, art and food merely meant to sustain itself, with no real goal, no real salvation or purpose, it starts to detangle and lose all sense of purpose.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: The cause

Postby Mackerni » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:54 pm

Trixi,

Are you familiar with Prager University? It is a conservative YouTube channel that is on the right about almost every issue. Prager U is very Christian, almost to a fault. There are some similarities between what you just typed and some of Dennis Prager's videos. Regardless of your politics, I think you'll enjoy this.

Okay, I tried to look up the video but for some reason I cannot find it. Something that you said and something that Prager U said was very similar. That the lack of attachments causes suffering and having attachments alleviates suffering.

Anyways, I hope you take a look at some of their videos, if you haven't so already. As someone who takes in account both science and faith I agree with about half of what Prager says about religion.
"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"
User avatar
Mackerni
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

Re: The cause

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:04 pm

The statement that "attachment causes suffering" or "non attachment causes suffering" is a half statement. It's like saying "an icecube causes suffering". Its not wrong enough to be wrong, nor right enough to be right. If put an icecube in a lemonade it is not suffering, if I put an icecube on my front teeth it is suffering. If you are attached to something negative, like unrequited love, attachment is suffering, but if you are attached to something positive, like a good meal, it is not suffering. I'd prefer not to watch videos of religious idiots, my time on the internet is limited.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: The cause

Postby Mackerni » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:09 pm

That's fine. It was just a suggestion. Your main point seemed to be that non-belief causes nihilism and Prager has multiple videos saying the same thing, and more. What you do with your time is not up to me, it was just a suggestion.
"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"
User avatar
Mackerni
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:11 am

Re: The cause

Postby James S Saint » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:46 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:The mind needs a cause to attach itself to, otherwise it descents into Nihilism.

That is one of the most fundamentally critical principles of the human race - a heart felt goal or purpose is required.

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote: If one looks at atheism too deeply life becomes to begin to be pointless.

And that is the purpose of atheism.

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:The human mind needs to look forward to an eternity of bliss...Because if it starts to believe that Earth is all there is, a bunch of reincarnations into random bodies, mix of suffering and pleasure, art and food merely meant to sustain itself, with no real goal, no real salvation or purpose, it starts to detangle and lose all sense of purpose.

You got it.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25609
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: The cause

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:39 pm

James S Saint wrote:
And that is the purpose of atheism

Atheism does not have a purpose

It is simply the non acceptance of a truth claim with regard to a specific type of entity
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: The cause

Postby surreptitious57 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:50 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
The mind needs a cause to attach itself to otherwise it descends into Nihilism

One can have a cause and still be a nihilist and so the two are not incompatible

Where nihilism is defined as there being no objective meaning to life which then allows for subjective meaning instead
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1931
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:05 am

Re: The cause

Postby James S Saint » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:46 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
And that is the purpose of atheism

Atheism does not have a purpose

It is simply the non acceptance of a truth claim with regard to a specific type of entity

Yes, and there is some ocean front property in Nevada that you should look into.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25609
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: The cause

Postby Gamer » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:56 pm

I like that original post. (I've never said that before.)

It's a handy summation of the problem. Another way of saying we need to worship something. More accurately, we do, always, worship something.

If not God, something else. As you chew through all the possible things to worship, money, beauty,art, knowledge, love, connection, courage, eventually you worship nihilism, or you bathe in the pain of it and call it the capital T truth, which is a form of worship.

If you continue to choose to live it's perhaps best to spend your time crafting good reasons to do so instead of brash lyric prose about the problem.

Sam Harris is non religious but tried to address this gravity problem in his book, Waking Up. If it doesn't hold compelling ideas for you and you raise objections it might be a catalyst to point you toward the next plateau of your existential journey.

For me it's about loyalty. I can't abandon the people in my life and flee toward Lady Nihilism's cold embrace. I have empathy and a sense of obligation. After all, there's a chance others actually exist. So we play the odds. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone; I feel their pain. This is true whether they exist or not. There's something in me that cares without even trying. I suppose that's what I worship, and I hope it never foresakes me, whatever it is. Maybe a thought, a bundle of neurons, a neurochemical, an idea, who knows.

Whatever it is, it's all that stands between me and the abyss. It deserves my respect. It deserves my heart and soul. It is the ultimate cause.
User avatar
Gamer
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:24 pm

Re: The cause

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:02 pm

Reason being is, the human brain has to focus on things. It needs a target of focus to exercise its neurons.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: The cause

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:03 pm

We are all feminine souls.
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: The cause

Postby James S Saint » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:05 pm

Gamer wrote:For me it's about loyalty. I can't abandon the people in my life and flee toward Lady Nihilism's cold embrace. I have empathy and a sense of obligation. After all, there's a chance others actually exist. So we play the odds. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone; I feel their pain. This is true whether they exist or not. There's something in me that cares without even trying. I suppose that's what I worship, and I hope it never foresakes me, whatever it is. Maybe a thought, a bundle of neurons, a neurochemical, an idea, who knows.

Whatever it is, it's all that stands between me and the abyss. It deserves my respect. It deserves my heart and soul. It is the ultimate cause.

That is more of what religion is about than anything, although most call it "devoted love".
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25609
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: The cause

Postby phyllo » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:10 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:We are all feminine souls.
Or masculine heels.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10101
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: ->.

Re: The cause

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:31 pm

James S Saint wrote:
Gamer wrote:For me it's about loyalty. I can't abandon the people in my life and flee toward Lady Nihilism's cold embrace. I have empathy and a sense of obligation. After all, there's a chance others actually exist. So we play the odds. I wouldn't want to hurt anyone; I feel their pain. This is true whether they exist or not. There's something in me that cares without even trying. I suppose that's what I worship, and I hope it never foresakes me, whatever it is. Maybe a thought, a bundle of neurons, a neurochemical, an idea, who knows.

Whatever it is, it's all that stands between me and the abyss. It deserves my respect. It deserves my heart and soul. It is the ultimate cause.

That is more of what religion is about than anything, although most call it "devoted love".


Religion is as gay as it gets.

Drive past a van that says Come To Jesus and on the side of it says "God Loves You".
trogdor
User avatar
Ultimate Philosophy 1001
BANNED
 
Posts: 8312
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:57 pm

Re: The cause

Postby Gamer » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:35 pm

"Reason being is, the human brain has to focus on things. It needs a target of focus to exercise its neurons."

The neuronal activity can be its own focus, like a mirror, which is the crux of the final existential challenge of being human and alone. But we are not only talking about the verb "focus." We are talking about ascribing or recognizing the highest source of meaning and value, which is a creative act. The problem is we will always decide which meaning is the highest, and we will almost always be wrong. There is no perfect object of worship but we must worship nonetheless. God is a creation designed to give us something permanent to worship. It makes a lot of sense to do that. I wish I could. Instead I worship certain conventions. Family. Health. Entertainment. Art. Science. Sports. I worship AOL channels essentially.
User avatar
Gamer
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 2129
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 5:24 pm


Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users