## Plans for a religion

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

### Re: Plans for a religion

barbarianhorde wrote:You kind of need a god to create a religion, nay?
There was the guy who started EST. There's Scientology which might be argued to have a God or gods, but it sure does trickle down much to participating in the religion. Buddhist can be non-theists, though some are. All you need the 'the' answer.
Karpel Tunnel
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### Re: Plans for a religion

List:

Indoor electric heaters for a large insulated main room.
Lots of room outside for tents.
Unheated rooms for storage and other purposes.
Large fence around the main tent area.

Recommended donations:
10$per day without food, 20$ per day with food included.

Green houses, goats, and chickens.

Public items such as gaming consoles.
2 TVs.

2 shower rooms. 1 tub room. 3 toilets.

Large kitchen with electric cooking devices.

Inviting monks and public speakers.
Anyone allowed to speak though.

Let's do it, danno. But we'll need an area where we can park the Volkswagen vanagons and a big fire pit around which we'll sit at night and drink jagermeister, smoke Mexican brick weed, rip each other off for small, personal possessions, play cheap Yamaha acoustic guitars with terrible intonation, sing harmony, and watch the stars in the southern sky. If you can set something like that up... I'm there, dude.
promethean75
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### Re: Plans for a religion

promethean75 wrote:Let's do it, danno. But we'll need an area where we can park the Volkswagen vanagons and a big fire pit around which we'll sit at night and drink jagermeister, smoke Mexican brick weed, rip each other off for small, personal possessions, play cheap Yamaha acoustic guitars with terrible intonation, sing harmony, and watch the stars in the southern sky. If you can set something like that up... I'm there, dude.

I was hoping to facilitate low cost rent and living,
so that they can grow closer to liberation.
Even a 1 week vacation to the place would be encouraged.

(this would be in the distant future)
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
barbarianhorde wrote:You kind of need a god to create a religion, nay?
There was the guy who started EST. There's Scientology which might be argued to have a God or gods, but it sure does trickle down much to participating in the religion. Buddhist can be non-theists, though some are. All you need the 'the' answer.

Ill give you this one.
cause you deserve it
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

THE HORNED ONE

barbarianhorde
Philosopher

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### Re: Plans for a religion

Developing Piety:

In my own case,
piety consists of:

Wisdom, Compassion, Harmony, Non-Abuse,

These are very possible goals when a person tries hard.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

https://www.filehosting.org/file/detail ... 20A%20.mp3

Today I'd like to talk about holism.

When many small things form larger things,
this is considered the form of holism.

What good is a brain without a mind?
What good is a car without wheels?
And in enlightenment, increments, are wholistic.

When we think, the more we think about one thing,
the more it grows. It touches the whole.
This is why I consider some of mass media as dangerous.
Not dangerous as in immediate danger,
but dangerous to nobility.
The wrong thing is often the easiest thing which requires
the least intelligence.
This is how zombies are made. They move, but they have no intellect.

When we rerout our whole so that it feeds back
into the center of our mind, (the crown chakra)
it changes. The more you send in, the more it changes.
Petty entertainment can consume our mind if we let it do so.
Principles of the nature of the mind,
also apply to principles of the whole.

When we change, as we live, it is noble
to try to produce the highest possibel good for the longest possible time.
In theory, just like a car is in need of its parts entirely,
life's parts are needed entirely for true living.

(( These things seem important to me. I hope you enjoy the audio format or you can just view the text.
They are both essentially the same ))
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

https://www.filehosting.org/file/detail ... ing%20.mp3

Melting is the best way i can describe this process.
You let go of everyone and everything.
You must not fear loss.

As you breath out, you let go, and relax,
so that you are like water instead of like a stone.

If you totally stop effecting your existence,
it will revert to a more natural, original form.

Also, when you attain this, it is permanent.
It doesn't go away or ware off.
Unless you try very hard to screw yourself up.

Excitation is an opposite to relaxation.
You probably spent most of your life trying to
find fun activities. This can be fun, yes,
but what is best for our whole self can be,
counter-intuitive and in someways they
deal with void and nothingness too.

So, we have excitation, then also, relaxation.
Between proper exciting and proper relaxing, we can produce,
harmony, in its various forms.

Melt every knot in your energy body.
Let old un-needed habits slowly dissolve and fade away.

Letting go and melting will be surprisingly easy and helpful.
its original form.

There are multiple levels of this, too.
Various energy structures are connected to people
between lives. Some of those things need to be either
healed or dissolved depending on what is best
for the whole self.

The principle of melting forms,
applies to many things not yet covered.
You can melt back many things in many ways.
Just remember to do what you can and wait
for what you can't.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

Here is a monk talking about letting go.

Letting go is part of the melting process that i already wrote about.

However, it is not about throwing away, in the case of melting,
Don't burn bridges or throw away everything you have.
However, repair the bridges and conserve your energy.

Hopefully this will be understood.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

https://www.filehosting.org/file/detail ... ue%201.mp3

Virtue is real.
Virtue is true.
Virtue is attainable.
Virtue is the best and highest thing in existence.

We can call this classicalism:
Higher and lower, left and right, short and tall.
Abstraction.
Thinking is percieved as work;
Work is precieved as progress.

Once the majority of ideas are labelled, dualized, temporalised, etc.
There is a human sense of accomplishment.
This, "creating knowledge", is like mc donalds.
It's not real beef anymore at one point.
Just kidding.
It's hard to have raw, pure thoughts.

However, creating knowledge, it is like
And once you have a chunk of knowledge,
without forgetting it,
or miss-managing it,
you can accept it. But maybe it, essentially,
is boring, then that is another way which haults the process.

Virtue in thinking is like this:
Presistance, Clarity, Dedication, Patience,
Wisdom, Harmony, Agility, Strength, Resiliance, etc.

There is pure thought, then there is impure thought.

Often pure awareness is obstructed heavily.
The human mind is filled with pollution.

What is the best highest virtue?
What is the best wish?
Wish for unlimited wishes?
Value unlimited values.
This means: that which ceates virtue,
is more fundamental than virtue.
That which creates virtue can be called meta virtue.
Or the source of virtue.

Healthy mind, healthy body, healthy soul.
These things produce virtue.
Good and kind beings, are actuating virtues.
Even if a good and kind animal has a simple mind,
they may also be good-natured even without the
extra help of a large intellect.

What created the creator of virtue?
Can we trace creation?
Cells. Cells cooperating.
This has been written on the Holism document.
Virtue can only exist as a whole.
A molecule alone doesn't equate to anything.
But a living structure is made of those molecules.

The whole, is the ultimate virtue.
And it can create beyond itself, too.
The ultimage virtue can create virtues,
of any imaginable kind.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

This one seems useful too.
There is a series i will be watching from time to time.
I plan to learn the teaching at least a little bit.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

You're starting to worry me Dan.

You remind me of someone.

Remember: Buddhism and yogi teachings were developed in a world that was much older than ours is. Their priorities were different, most of their conquests were behind them.

If you like, the wheel of Dharma knows all this and might frown upon so much detachment.

The world is worth fighting for. Worth fighting in. What is it you want to disassociate yourself from so much that you have taken recourse from such an old and dangerous method?

What is, exactly, the quarrel you have with your ego?

Nobody denies these dudes are very smart about what they are saying. But how many people ask: why are they saying it?

Why dissociation? Why eliminate the ego?

Is there not much wisdom to be attained before one affords one's self the arrogance of dissociating from one's self?

Always remember: yogis and Buddha monks aren't looking for ultimate truth. So be careful when you couch their teachings as that.
Pedro I Rengel
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### Re: Plans for a religion

As much as I am in awe of the Buddha himself, and as much as Zen is a powerful philosophy and way of life, there is this issue, that remains unaddressed if you don't have some psychology at your disposal.

What is this one thing

Well, it is called the satiation pushback crux.

We all know that prince Siddharta was the former name of the Buddha, before he became the Buddha. Before he sat down and renounced all his wealth.

Now, consider. If it wasn't Siddharta, but a son of a very poor and sick old farmer, and he was having a tooth ache on top of his poverty.

Say he, too, sat down and like Siddharta, thought: Screw it, Im gonna renounce all my worldly conditions.

What would have happened.

Would a supreme bliss have come over him, too?

I find that highly doubtful.

What Siddharta relinquished and renounced was his to renounce.

He was sexually satisfied so he had comparatively few ego issues. He has known what is means to eat more than you can desire so he had little neurosis about food. He had known great wealthy families so he knew very well the happiness that wealth does bring as well as the type it doesn't bring.

She he was, by his wealthy past, already set free from desires.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

THE HORNED ONE

barbarianhorde
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### Re: Plans for a religion

barbarianhorde wrote:As much as I am in awe of the Buddha himself, and as much as Zen is a powerful philosophy and way of life, there is this issue, that remains unaddressed if you don't have some psychology at your disposal.

What is this one thing

Well, it is called the satiation pushback crux.

We all know that prince Siddharta was the former name of the Buddha, before he became the Buddha. Before he sat down and renounced all his wealth.

Now, consider. If it wasn't Siddharta, but a son of a very poor and sick old farmer, and he was having a tooth ache on top of his poverty.

Say he, too, sat down and like Siddharta, thought: Screw it, Im gonna renounce all my worldly conditions.

What would have happened.

Would a supreme bliss have come over him, too?

I find that highly doubtful.

What Siddharta relinquished and renounced was his to renounce.

He was sexually satisfied so he had comparatively few ego issues. He has known what is means to eat more than you can desire so he had little neurosis about food. He had known great wealthy families so he knew very well the happiness that wealth does bring as well as the type it doesn't bring.

She he was, by his wealthy past, already set free from desires.
He renounced, by default, being creative. He could have been India's Shakespeare or Davinci. Your point is great, but I want to take it further. He turned away from himself and the world, and in the end, for no good reason. I have sympathy for his choice, but it came down to a kind of self-hatred. However much discipline and genius when into that self-hatred.
Karpel Tunnel
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### Re: Plans for a religion

Yep. That is also an approach with much truth.
I wasn't going to say anything about California but now I should.
Because in California, Zen and Buddhism as well as Yoga and such related philosophies (Buddha was from India, no?) are all very popular, world-renouncing is all very popular, except among the 90 percent of people struggling to stay afloat.

I was in Upper California for a time as well as Oregon and Washington and there were a lot of Buddhistic people there that I met on my trails. And all of them owned their houses and even built them on their own plots of land, beautiful stuff.

This extends all the way to the Big Tekk and Big Street playaz. They all have their meditation rooms and Pilates-coach. This is what they do with their wealth. They make it enclose them so they need to renounce it in their thoughts.

What instead if they were Da Vincis or Shakespears? Then maybe they would give some of their wealth to lofty projects which fertilize the earth, and enrich the population of it, rather than renounce it to experience some pleasure.

Because the science of pleasure that comes from the Hymalayas has been developed to great efficiency. This is the screwed up part. Nirvana is extremely pleasurable so once you taste it or even smell ir or even hear rumours of it, it makes you covet.
It is true that liberty is precious; so precious that it must be carefully rationed.
~ Владимир Ильич Ульянов Ленин

THE HORNED ONE

barbarianhorde
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### Re: Plans for a religion

https://www.filehosting.org/file/detail ... nal%20.mp3

Intead of saying the ego is bad and the light is good,
It took a long time to build a self;
now you must transcend what you've made.
You must update your inner parts.

Transpersonal is that which is beyond the self.
When the self is reasonably complete,
it's time to master what is beyond the personal.

You realize that the univese is infinite.
It's transpersonal.

Imagine living inside of a motionless bubble.
You need to exit that bubble in order to reach
a different, distant bubble.
Each bubble is a self.
Each individual that works beyond a single self,
is transperonal.

Eventually the self reaches so far,
to so many, that it becomes like an infinite force.
The bubbles of existence can become
very many. It forms into deities eventually,
sometimes. Most deities are transpersonal,
and old. With enough time, that which was
small, can become great.

Sometimes all that we need is safety.
Safety is a very important thing for
developing beings. One guy in the forest
wont last long. But when there is a lot
of people working togehter, things can
reach a higher level of this or of that.

Our existence is a lot like a layered sphere.
But it can reach beyond itself, more and more.
Relocate the ego, don't destroy it.
https://dannerz.itch.io/ -- a new and minimal webside now hosting two of my free game projects.

Dan~
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### Re: Plans for a religion

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I've heard quite a few people express the desire to found a new religion, philosophy or ideology, but they never seem to get around to working out the details.

It take work to start a religion. Jesus was likely walking and talking to a lot of people after years of rigorous study. Even people we might consider wackos worked hard. They studied, they engaged in religious practices, the wrote, they spoke, they branded themselves, they challenged current religious leaders, much in the way any successful entrepreneur needs to work their ass of. And then they generally need to have some kind of charisma.

It's not coming up with a nice idea. It's work and gifts, and if you don't have the gifts - like my examples above of charisma and branding - then you have more work cut out to train in those gifts as skills.

On the other hand, practicing a religion doesn't usually take much work, unless it's a cult that demands 100% devotion.

Gloominary
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### Re: Plans for a religion

"The difference between a religion and a cult is the amount of real estate involved" - F. Zappa
promethean75
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### Re: Plans for a religion

Religion is wobbling to a thought.
It is actually what stands at the threshold of the duality of causality in Spinoza that Promethean just talked about. It is neither thought nor thing, but it is a thought that substitutes for a thing and a thing that substitutes for a thought.

For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals

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