Plans for a religion

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:23 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:I guess, Dan, I see my post above as not having any zingers in it and certainly the kind of response I would make to those ideas if I was in person with someone, looking them in the eye. I don't think it showed animosity and could have been part of a respectful discussion of ideas relevant to the post I responded to. It also was not ad hom, which your post was, in question form.

But, as said, people can just ignore my post, if it seems offensive to them, and continue to discuss Dan's ideas the way they would like to.

I have no problem with this post.
I asked questions for clarity not for criticism.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Sun May 20, 2018 11:35 pm

Separating classes as superior and inferior was a paradigm i feel aristotle loved.
This means we determine which god is the highest and greatest.
This means we determine which god is the lowest and most evil.

In morality, we are to see what is best and what is worst.
Once we identify the highest virtue or moral, we persue it.
Once we reach the highest and most helpful god figure, we worship it.

hierarchy / tree building. That's all it is. For years.
This kind of thought is like drawing an overlay over a map,
and that overlay is names and qualities. Natures. Etc.
Some even call this knowledge.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Tue May 22, 2018 2:51 am

The best religions are about life, truth, positivity and morals.
Imagine one food that was good for you, but tasted awful.
Then another food was bad for you, but tasted wonderful.
What happens when we have to make a choice between health and pleasure?

Now imagine if you have truth, which is boring and very hard to fathom.
Next there is opinions from a low and foolish place, which is easy to entertain or appealing in some way.
It's like choosing between nonsense and enlightenment.

Now imagine a good religion that is all about truth.
It will naturally not do as well as a religion based on appeal.

In democracy, they forget that what the masses want is not always the best or the most right thing.

Advancement will almost always be a path that you walk alone.
And if someone does help, it's rare.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 30, 2018 10:12 pm

It seems that there were some among his own disciples who did not
appreciate this attitude of his. For, we have the example of one of them, Malunkyaputta by name, who put to the Buddha ten well-known classical
questions on metaphysical problems and demanded answers. One day
Malunkyaputta got up from his afternoon meditation, went to the Buddha, saluted
him, sat on one side and said: 'Sir, when I was all alone meditating, this thought
occurred to me: There are these problems unexplained, put aside and rejected by
the Blessed One. Namely, (1) is the universe eternal or (2) is it not eternal, (3) is the
universe finite or (4) is it infinite, (5) is soul the same as body or (6) is soul one thing
and body another thing, (7) does the Tathagata exist after death, or (8) does he not
exist after death, or (9) does he both (at the same time) exist after death, or (10) does
he both (at the same time) not exist and not not-exist. These problems the Blessed
One does not explain to me. This (attitude) does not please me, I do not appreciate it. I will go to the
Blessed One ask him about this matter. If the Blessed One explains them tome, then
I will continue to follow the holy life under him. If he does not explain them, I will
leave the Order and go away. If the Blessed One knows that the universe is eternal,
let him explain it to me so. If the Blessed One knows that the universe is not eternal,
let him say so. If the Blessed One does not know whether the universe is eternal or
not, etc., then for a person who does not know, it is straight-forward to say " I do not
know, I do not see".'
The Buddha's reply to Malunkyaputta should do good to many millions in
the world today who are wasting valuable time on such metaphysical questions and
unnecessarily disturbing their peace of mind: 'Did I ever tell you, Malunkyaputta,
"Come, Malunkyaputta, lead the holy life under me, I will explain these questions to
11
you?"' 'No, Sir.' 'Then, Malunkyaputta, even you, did you tell me: "Sir, I will lead the
holy life under the Blessed One, and the Blessed One will explain these questions
to me"?' 'No, Sir.' 'Even now, Malunkyaputta, I do not tell you: "Come and lead the
holy life under me, I will explain these question to you".
And you do not tell me either: "Sir, I will lead the holy life under the Blessed
One, and he will explain these questions to me". Under these circumstances, you
foolish one, who refuses whom? 'Malunkyaputta, if anyone says: "I will not lead the
holy life under the Blessed One until he explains these questions," he may die with
these questions unanswered by the Tathagata.
Suppose Malunkyaputta, a man is wounded by the poisoned arrow, and his
friends and relatives bring him to a surgeon. Suppose the man should then say: " I
will not let this arrow be taken out until I know who shot me; whether he is a
Ksatriya (of the low caste); what his name and family may be; whether he is tall,
short, or of medium stature; whether his complexion is black, brown, or golden; from
which village, town or city he comes. I will not let this arrow be taken out until I
know the kind of bow with which I was shot; the kind of bowstring used; the type of
arrow; what sort of feather was used on the arrow and with what kind of material the
point of the arrow was made." Malunkyaputta, that man would die without knowing
any of these things. Even so, Malunkyaputta, if anyone says: " I will not follow the
holy life under the Blessed One until he answers these questions such as whether
the universe is eternal or not, etc.," he would die with these questions unanswered by
the Tathagata.'
Then the Buddha explains to Malunkyaputta that the holy life does not
depend on these views. Whatever opinion one may have about these problems,
there is birth, old age, decay, death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, distress, " the
Cessation of which (i.e. Nirvana) I declare in this very life." 'Therefore, Malunkyaputta, bear in mind what I have explained as explained, and what I have
not explained as unexplained. What are the things that I have not explained?
Whether the universe is eternal or not, etc., (those 10 opinions) I have not explained.
Why, Malunkyaputta, have not explained them? Because it is not useful, it is not
fundamentally connected with the spiritual holy life, is not conducive to aversion,
detachment, cessation, tranquility, deep penetration, full realization, Nirvana. That
is why I have not told you about them.


in simple terms, some things are more important than a others.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Wed May 30, 2018 10:17 pm

I've recently been into the idea of conservation of energy.
To the point of conservation of spirit.
Letting go of the habit to externalize one's energy.
Almost all of our energies go to waste.
They are either stagnant or depleated.
The stagnant needs maintainance, the depleation needs restraint.
Letting go of all goals, dreams and ideas.
They liquify into a more important, paraconsciousness, if dealt with and reclaimed properly.

Being without mind, do nothing, letting go of attachments,
these can cause reabsorbing, back into someone's true core/source.

Leading a simple life by choice, instead of being forced to live in a simple life,
means that there is less distraction, and the simplicity only exists on the surface.
At the depths, it is really more fundamental than simple and complex.
It is depth beyond common goals and conditions.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Thu May 31, 2018 1:49 am

http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?fil ... itingid=54
A Total Commitment to Truth
Anybody can awaken to the truth of being. And yet, when it is realized, often the person who has committed a large portion of his or her life to the spiritual path is more readily able to let go and flow with that realization than the person who hasn’t been on a spiritual path. Does that have anything to do with some sort of merit earned by sitting on a meditation cushion, or whatever the spiritual practice was? Absolutely not! It has nothing to do with that. It has nothing whatever to do with preparing the field, tilling the soil, or fertilizing the soul. It’s just that it’s possible, though not a guarantee, that someone who has made the spiritual search his or her priority in life is already in fidelity to truth when realization happens. Realization was wanted more than anything else, and his or her life has been a living, walking, breathing demonstration of this fidelity.

But if those who walk in off the street and realize the truth of their being want it just as much as those who put in decades of spiritual practice, guess what? They are at no disadvantage whatsoever. None. Zero. And by the way, having put decades into the spiritual life and spiritual practice does not necessarily mean that we actually value the truth more than anything else. It’s no guarantee. But to take awakening into enlightenment requires a certain sort of fierce commitment to the truth. It is a surrender to what is realized, a surrender to not be moved in the face of anything. And for anybody who loves the truth, really loves the truth, this surrender is not going to be avoided.


I worry that this guy has an imbalance.
Life is more important than truth.
Jesus healing on the sabbath, was a msg about how human life is more important than the sabbath, or any other religious holiday or doctrine.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Thu May 31, 2018 11:59 pm

Conservation of energy:

Today i tried to talk to Joe about this principle.
He seems to think it is humanly impossible.
He says you use 2000 calories to sit on a chair and do nothing.

I will explain conservation of energy:

Weakness and death occurs when we externalize the majority of our vital elements.
Madness and burn out occurs when we greatly externalize our mind on the outside world.

To conserve energy, as soon as a desire to do anything at all comes up,
let go of the desire. Do only what you need. Natural needs come up on their own without
need for forcing yourself outside your center. Unnatural needs die quickly,
and they use up no more excess energy.

Reabsorb your will, you hopes, your dreams, etc.
Melt it all down into your core, located in your solar plexus and linked to your heart.

Only buy what you need. Food, water, shelter, medicines, etc.

In meditation, all your extra energy should be compressed and cherished.
Storing it so that it does not decay or overwhelm.
Use it to strengthen its casing.

The truth reveals itself quickly, when you dethrone untruth.
Energy comes to you freely, if you let go of your artificial fire.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:33 am

All things in reality which have motion, have cause, and all who has cause has source.
If reality moves in some way, it is the result of a movement. Movement passes between things.
Movement is easier to see than stillness.

A moving world is a caused world.

Silence and non motion are eternal.
Formless planes are super efficient because they have less requirements in order to exist.
In fact, the planes which are the easiest to exist, use the least energy,
and are most receptive to force, having no resistance at all.

So the astral plane can associate with the motionless forces.
The motionless forces can be acquired, through peace and tranquility.
They are endless, limitless, free, and perfect.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:15 am

An excellent tree requires a good seed, good soil, good water, and enough luck to land on a nice patch of dirt, and not get eaten.

An excellent soul is a product of luck.
Joe would disagree, but, i must explain.

Do not consider your goodness your own, because your whole human existence came about from non-self.
Your parents, your food, your water, was the outside world nurturing you.

So, appreciate the golden rarity of virtues.
If you are very virtueous, you are also very lucky.

Likewise, child soldiers are an example of someone, who was born into a dangeruos corrupt land.
This child soldier is unlucky from birth. Do not hate him. Hate if anything, the world that forced him to do what is wrong.

When a good being becomes arrogant at their good fortune, looking down upon less intelligent, less powerful beings,
this kind of thinking is how angels have fallen.

Big a wise king knows that he is not great or powerful,
then he sets up measures to ensure his life. Most kings were not wise enough.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:20 am

There was a man, proved evil due to his cruelty to his own horse.
This is why harmful street drugs are a form of disvirtue.
A soul wasting its body, or a body wasting its soul. Such a common evil is this.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby gib » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:57 am

Hi dan,

Great thread! Developing nicely.

Question for you: you've experienced meditation before, right? There are those who say they can meditate all day. I don't think I could ever do that... like ever.

But! I think I could *maybe* maintain a certain state of mind for a significantly long period of time. Like acting. I've considered taking acting classes. Acting is like maintaining a certain state of mind--the state you imagine is the character's state of mind. So if I'm jack sparrow, I'm clever, a little weird, sneaky, manipulative, a bit charming, etc. Its not the real me but I know I can act as if it were, and if this counts as an altered state of mind that I can maintain for a prolonged period of time, would you say this is a form of meditation that can be practiced just as ordinary meditation?
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Here lies the body of William J, who died maintaining his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:05 am

One idea is that meditation becomes easier with time.

I was switching between sitting and stairing at the wall, focusing on breath,
then laying down, and letting go of mind and feeling, desire, plans, etc.
So when i can no longer sit, i would lay, and when i could no longer lay, i'd sit.

I had a form of happiness that is not associated with any cause or event.
I still feel it now. And any negative feeling rapidly shrinks away.
I'm not perfected, or ultimate, but i do feel better now.

I think this experience may be perminent.
I decided to take a break a few minutes ago, because i was worried about becoming nutty from over-straining my mental states.

The practice starts as letting go of motion.
The second part we let go of mind and feeling.
Then we let go of self.

At some point you reach boredom, which i consider to be a form of excess energy.
Then you take that energy and calm it down and internalize it.
After i did that, i felt no longer any boredom.
It was interesting to have no boredom after a whole day of these types of things.

There are things you can do though.
Like doing short meditations again and again. It all counts.
At least, as far as i know, it does count.
Some type of illumination is a permanent quality.

I hope this has helped a little bit to clarify this.
To me it is an experiment still in progress.
I've never done this before.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:08 am

There's 2 forms of love which i am going to explain.
I hope this differenciation wont make the ideas seem dualistic.
First, weak love / weakness love:
Weak love makes you cry; it makes you melt. You feel like you can't stand to live without it.
The more you get, the more you want. If it stops, you go insane.
The weaker you are, the more you need. It's an insiciable black hole of attachments.
Strong love, on the other hand, is a form of calm strength where you realize the need
for care and altruism and helping people, but you don't feel dependent on them for your
peace of mind. Strong love is a form of refined will-power. Strong love is generally
non sexual. It's doctor-like. The doctor doesn't cry and collapse each time someone
dies or falls ill. The doctor must be strong and keep a stable composition, otherwise
he looses his mind and his ability to help.

The ideal is to turn all of your weak love into strong love.
Develop stronger and stronger love, tempered with balance and resiliance.
Be positive no matter how bad things are.

Positivity is a form of courage. Positivity needs courage.
The world needs and requires courage.
Courage is also a virtue and an honor.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:34 pm

The doctor doesn't cry and collapse each time someone
dies or falls ill. The doctor must be strong and keep a stable composition, otherwise
he looses his mind and his ability to help.
The doctor doesn't love his patients as intensely as lovers love each other, married couples love each other or parents love their children.

Sure, it's probably a bad idea to fall down crying during a terrorist attack because you have more important things to do. But afterwards ... why not cry over the bodies of loved ones?

Why not cry if your loved one is terminal? It seems perfectly reasonable.
The ideal is to turn all of your weak love into strong love.
Why should that be the ideal?

It seems to require the suppression of some basic human emotions.
Be positive no matter how bad things are.

Positivity is a form of courage. Positivity needs courage.
Being emotionally expressive is not necessarily being negative. Two entirely different things.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:00 pm

I think you don't see the point.
Strong love can do anything weak love can do, and "strong love" is something I made up so you can't tell me I'm wrong if you don't even know what it means.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby phyllo » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:14 pm

I think you don't see the point.
That's possible.

So why don't you explain it some more?
Strong love can do anything weak love can do, and "strong love" is something I made up so you can't tell me I'm wrong if you don't even know what it means.
You described it and I responded based on that description, as far as I understood it. What else do you expect?
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:20 pm

So why don't you explain it some more?

Strong love is not painful or irritating. It lasts much longer than attachment-love.
It comes from logic, deduction, effort, etc. It's a form of virtue/morality.
The more we feel of it, the stronger and more stable/balanced we feel.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby newegg » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:38 am

What he is saying is Vulcan logos vs. feminine decadence and hysteria.

However vulcans are known to Snap and turn savage.

Thirdly, what is life without feminine humor and a good dose of hysteria.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby phyllo » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:23 pm

Dan~ wrote:
So why don't you explain it some more?

Strong love is not painful or irritating. It lasts much longer than attachment-love.
I don't know.

It seems to me that love always contains a degree of attachment. That's just unavoidable.

Pain and irritation is a part of love just as it is a part of life in general. It comes and goes. If pain and irritation is chronic, then there is something wrong.
It comes from logic, deduction, effort, etc.
I don't recall personally using logic and deduction to decide if I loved someone or something. I don't think anyone does that kind of conscious calculation.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:50 pm

I like when I am attached, though not when I cry and gasp if they go out for the shopping or something.
I like also when I can deal with tough situations with those I care about.
My long term connections seem to have both qualities - though not so negatively,in the case of 'weak' love, despite great attachment - and not so detached when it comes to 'strong' love.

Made me think of agape and eros, thought it's not quite those.

There is less pain if you are not so attached, just ask Siddheartha.

On the other hand, I think one is missing out, if one is just strong, striding through life, never wavering, good and helpful.

I wouldn't want to marry my doctor, and have them love me like a doctor would.

But some of that ALSO is really good.

For me the strong love sounds to be carefully avoiding being hurt and the weak love sounds seeking, but not yet having much balance. What is being called weak love here sounds like someone who is not grounded in themselves yet to the point where they can be passionately attached, but also enjoy being alone. And also likely does not trust the other person.

A child missing a parent in a dark place.

But I get devastated when those I love die or are suffering. I have found I can also be a support, in part this comes out of my attachment.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:44 am

https://scottjeffrey.com/zhan-zhuang/

Standing a certain way effects your energy flow.
I just found this today, but, i had a version of this already discovered by myself earlier.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:43 am

Just realized that in a way Dan's two versions of love relate to the....

dopamine reward pleasure

seratonin contentment


dichotomy
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:04 pm

Next up:
Weak and strong will.

Weak will exists because of attachments, cravings, deficiency, hunger and unideal living conditions.

Strong will exists because the whole of the being has a intention or true will that they live by.
The true will is special. It transcends singular goals. It's more of a way than a specific goal.
Strong will consumes weak will, when it becomes a higher priority.
Strong will gets stronger.
Weak will compensates for inner weaknesses and needs.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:25 pm

"Somewhere in Greece..."


Very nice Dan.
I might join.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:28 pm

What kind of gatherings, if any, do you conceive?
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