Plans for a religion

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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:28 pm

Do you agree that religion is a communal thing?

I would imagine health can be generated more quickly through a collective effort like the Greeks had with their sports, and most peoples have with training for war, and a lot of peoples have with dance.

Often fire is part of the ritual. But monotheist have abandoned this. They found something beyond fire.
Maybe whatever is beyond fire should considered irrelevant.

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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:49 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:What kind of gatherings, if any, do you conceive?

First we do chat and email.
In the distant future i get some money to set up a camp which will later become
a cluster of houses used as a resting space for members.
Donations would be welcome but we would make food from scratch
at a farm so that it was not very pricey.

The idea is that people need a relief from work and money,
to focus on all forms of meditation instead of always having to use up our mind and soul on labor.

Working for a corporation is degrading.
I'd like to have a set up where people work for themselves.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:37 pm

Dan,

Strong love is not painful or irritating. It lasts much longer than attachment-love.


It lasts much longer....

So, if you have to discipline your child (out of love) let us say by taking away one of his privileges for a week to teach him that actions and behavior can have consequences, are you saying that there cannot be pain and irritation there ~~ both on the part of the parent or the child?
What to you is the most basic ingredient and value where love is concerned?

You seem to be portraying love in a kind of easy-going, harmonious way? Is real love always that way?


The more we feel of it, the stronger and more stable/balanced we feel.


I really do not want to take away from your thoughts here but doesn't that statement almost feel like love itself is being used for the purpose of feeling better about ourselves instead of for the growth and maturity of the parties involved?

Acting out of love in a real way does not necessarily have to make us feel more stable and balanced. I mean, that is not its real purpose unless perhaps it allows for the other to feel that way...support that is.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby gib » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:46 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Dan,

Strong love is not painful or irritating. It lasts much longer than attachment-love.


It lasts much longer....

So, if you have to discipline your child (out of love) let us say by taking away one of his privileges for a week to teach him that actions and behavior can have consequences, are you saying that there cannot be pain and irritation there ~~ both on the part of the parent or the child?
What to you is the most basic ingredient and value where love is concerned?

You seem to be portraying love in a kind of easy-going, harmonious way? Is real love always that way?


The more we feel of it, the stronger and more stable/balanced we feel.


I really do not want to take away from your thoughts here but doesn't that statement almost feel like love itself is being used for the purpose of feeling better about ourselves instead of for the growth and maturity of the parties involved?

Acting out of love in a real way does not necessarily have to make us feel more stable and balanced. I mean, that is not its real purpose unless perhaps it allows for the other to feel that way...support that is.


I have similar questions, Dan.

Many people say that real love is both selfless and uneffected by any personal emotion or good feeling. But I don't understand this. Maybe there is such a thing as this selfless non-feeling love, but I don't see how a human being, or any animal, can feel that or be motivated to act according to that. They say that any kind of love that motivates you to act because it makes you feel good is really a selfish kind of love because you're only doing it for the good feeling you get from it. It's as if "real" love is supposed to be emotionless or feelingless, like you'd be completely indifferent or apathetic about it, like Spock, yet at the same time you'd still act on it out of some untainted, stoic awareness that it's the right thing to do, or that it's purely for the sake of another's well-being. But this sounds to me more like a feeling of obligation or guilt, which I don't think is the same as love at all. Other than that, I'm not sure how a human being, or any animal, can be motivated to act unless some good feeling to one's self comes out of it.

Good feeling to one's self is the driver for any kind of action, whether it come from love, lust, entertainment, ambition, laziness, or whatever. If this is selfish, then selflessness is impossible. Obviously, I don't think that can be the case, so the question for me is not whether it makes one feel good, but can the other person rely on us. For example, I know that my children can rely on me to always be there for them, to protect them, to care for them, to make them feel safe and loved, because it brings me pleasure to know these things are secured. Compare this to my desire to help someone for purposes other than themselves--for example, if I were in sales and I convince a customer that her satisfaction with the items I'm trying to sell are my top concern. Well, it may be a concern--if she's happy with the items I'm trying to sell her, that means I'm more likely to make the sale, or that she will be a return customer. But in this case, her happiness is contingent on making the sale, and what's really driving me is the money I will make on the sale, not her happiness. But with my children, their happiness and well-being is the goal. And people will often confuse this (the goal) with the motivation (personal good feeling). The goal is what I aim for (and it stops there) while the good feeling which I get (knowing my kids are happy and taken care of) is what comes out of it such as to motivate me, something to make me want to satisfy my goal.

But this selfless, feelingless kind of love, I don't understand. Not that this makes it false or bad in any way, I've just always found it to be an obscure and hard-to-comprehend sort of thing, and I question whether a person who brings it up even knows what their talking about.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:08 pm

Strong love, helps you feel stronger, and more inspired, too.
Weak love helps you feel happy, excited or relieved.

Strength is a form of happiness; it's own form of happiness, not to be confused with others.
It is the enabling of will power.
If you have no strength, you can't follow choices and make changes in your life.
But when strong, your choices come to fruition.
The stronger you are, the more options you have, the more freedom you feel.

Weak love on the other hand, is in part, a relief from the pains of empathy and compassion.
Pain and depression weakens the will, even though these things can have a positive outcome.
But there are many possible avenues to take here.

Most of us have both strong and weak love.
We live with it.
But to become a better person, with a better life, the weak must be made strong.
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby gib » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:26 pm

Dan~ wrote:Strong love, helps you feel stronger, and more inspired, too.
Weak love helps you feel happy, excited or relieved.

Strength is a form of happiness; it's own form of happiness, not to be confused with others.
It is the enabling of will power.
If you have no strength, you can't follow choices and make changes in your life.
But when strong, your choices come to fruition.
The stronger you are, the more options you have, the more freedom you feel.

Weak love on the other hand, is in part, a relief from the pains of empathy and compassion.
Pain and depression weakens the will, even though these things can have a positive outcome.
But there are many possible avenues to take here.

Most of us have both strong and weak love.
We live with it.
But to become a better person, with a better life, the weak must be made strong.


So Dan, would you say that weak love is like feeling sorry for someone, and wanting to give of yourself in order to help them? Whereas strong love is seeing value in someone? Value in how they can contribute to your life?

If I have this correct, weak love would not be the best foundation for a relationship because 1) once you've helped the person, there is no guarantee that person will be compatible with you or good for you, and 2) that person may just end up being dependent on you. Whereas strong love is a good foundation for a relationship because it is based on the person for who they are--you value them in your life because the person they are contributes positively to your life--and that usually results in stability and longevity.
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That's earth therapy. You might as well ask a horse to fix a merry-go-round. I mean, he'll try his best, but mostly, he's just gonna get horrified.
- Rick Sanchez

You're young, you have your whole life ahead of you, and your anal cavity is still taut yet malleable.
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: Plans for a religion

Postby Dan~ » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:46 am

gib wrote:So Dan, would you say that weak love is like feeling sorry for someone, and wanting to give of yourself in order to help them?

Weak love is very pain oriented. We feel the needs and pains of others, then helping them is relief of this pain.

Whereas strong love is seeing value in someone? Value in how they can contribute to your life?

Strong love helps people for the sheer joy of helping. It is motivated by health and happiness.
The person you help doesn't need to contribute to your own life.
They just need to be help-able.

If I have this correct, weak love would not be the best foundation for a relationship because 1) once you've helped the person, there is no guarantee that person will be compatible with you or good for you, and 2) that person may just end up being dependent on you. Whereas strong love is a good foundation for a relationship because it is based on the person for who they are--you value them in your life because the person they are contributes positively to your life--and that usually results in stability and longevity.

Weak love can take you far, but it tires the soul and spirit.
When weak, we need others more. So it demands more love as it exausts itself.
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