This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does no

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:05 pm

Random Factor wrote:The Bible itself is a mockery to the true God that exists. At the same time as remaining free of mockery to the perception of the true believer, it is nothing but mockery to those who believe in God the way religion paints it, a tongue in cheek insult delivered to the deluded, the power hungry, etc.

On all levels, in all ways, it serves all purposes, including being disrespectful to a god who never was proud to be called god. On all levels, in all ways, it falls far short of painting the truth and is limited to being a child's bedtime story at the very end even when painting god in the truest light that it can, for that is only the beginning of knowing the being beyond the title.

It is complicated sophistry and simple child's play and is never designed to even lead to the truth, but in all its ways designed to keep children spirits occupied in incomplete truths and falsities until it's too late for their prophecies to come true.


=D>

I have no argument against this.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Kriswest » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:36 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Kriswest wrote:[
Adam and Eve went against what they were told. God said leave it alone, they disobeyed and so were booted out but, not deserted.


Do you see that command to leave basically all the knowledge known as a good command?

I say all knowledge because all knowledge is subject to good or evil.

That command basically tells A & E to never go to school or any other place of learning.

Do you see that as good parenting and advise that should be followed?

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DL

Is there not knowledge that you would deny your children until they are mature enough to know it?
Look at the story, God said no, God allowed Satan in to test , they failed. Sound mature enough to handle all knowledge? Do you want to protect your children so much that they do not evolve or mature mentally? Perhaps God too must follow certain rules of science and evolution.
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I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:45 pm

Greatest I am wrote:The golden rule is a reciprocity law.

If you slapped, what is the reciprocal answer to that slap?

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I agree with that too :evilfun:
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:01 pm

Kriswest wrote:[
quote="Greatest I am"]
Kriswest wrote:[
Adam and Eve went against what they were told. God said leave it alone, they disobeyed and so were booted out but, not deserted.


Do you see that command to leave basically all the knowledge known as a good command?

I say all knowledge because all knowledge is subject to good or evil.

That command basically tells A & E to never go to school or any other place of learning.

Do you see that as good parenting and advise that should be followed?

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DL

Is there not knowledge that you would deny your children until they are mature enough to know it?


Sure, but not of the moral kind and certainly not all knowledge. That would be child abuse.

Look at the story, God said no, God allowed Satan in to test , they failed.


Not to the Jews who wrote Genesis and saw our elevation and not the fall that Christianity called it.

Not to intelligent and moral people who see that keeping all knowledge from children and humans as evil.

Sound mature enough to handle all knowledge?


Of the moral kind, absolutely, if they are mature enough to grasp it. If not, they eventually will understand it.

Do you want to protect your children so much that they do not evolve or mature mentally?


I do not and that is why I condemn Yahweh for trying to do it to A & E. To evolve our thinking, we must have knowledge.

Perhaps God too must follow certain rules of science and evolution.
[/quote]

Indeed and the golden rule is a part of natural evolution in mankind as it is what creates empathy and our altruistic natures.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:36 am

Why are we sitting here debating a faiery tale.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Kriswest » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:21 am

You are not forced to be here.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:10 am

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Why are we sitting here debating a faiery tale.


Indeed.

A fairy tale whose followers who believe it all to be real, have denigrated and discriminated against gays and women forever.

Let it all ride and do nothing if you like but you might remember that for those evils to grow, all you need do is nothing.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:35 pm

I think it gets assumed too largely that God has to follow the rules. It also gets assumed too largely that god created the rules he follows. What they all really hate to acknowledge is the existence of a being that doesn't follow any rule except when convent and breaks every rule and in no way, shape or form ever stops being righteous or in the right. It terrifies and disturbs many the experiments that god actually runs and condones and just what the being actually does. It is inhuman, inhumane and makes monsters of us all, which is entirely the point.

Take another ride along the devils road, along the night road of paths between paths between lives between heaven and hell.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:39 pm

Random Factor wrote:I think it gets assumed too largely that God has to follow the rules. It also gets assumed too largely that god created the rules he follows. What they all really hate to acknowledge is the existence of a being that doesn't follow any rule except when convent and breaks every rule and in no way, shape or form ever stops being righteous or in the right. It terrifies and disturbs many the experiments that god actually runs and condones and just what the being actually does. It is inhuman, inhumane and makes monsters of us all, which is entirely the point.

Take another ride along the devils road, along the night road of paths between paths between lives between heaven and hell.


It is assumed that God follows his rules as we are told in scriptures to emulate him.

If he can say, do as I say and not as I do, then so can we if we emulate him.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:46 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Random Factor wrote:I think it gets assumed too largely that God has to follow the rules. It also gets assumed too largely that god created the rules he follows. What they all really hate to acknowledge is the existence of a being that doesn't follow any rule except when convent and breaks every rule and in no way, shape or form ever stops being righteous or in the right. It terrifies and disturbs many the experiments that god actually runs and condones and just what the being actually does. It is inhuman, inhumane and makes monsters of us all, which is entirely the point.

Take another ride along the devils road, along the night road of paths between paths between lives between heaven and hell.


It is assumed that God follows his rules as we are told in scriptures to emulate him.

If he can say, do as I say and not as I do, then so can we if we emulate him.

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DL


It's more along the lines that he can do what others claim to be able to do. Do as I say, not as I do, stems from that. For example, someone with tolerance to heat built up inside their mouths may dig right into a meal fresh from the oven without burning themselves. Anyone who follows suit without heat tolerance based on observation would likely injure themselves.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:09 pm

Random Factor wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Random Factor wrote:I think it gets assumed too largely that God has to follow the rules. It also gets assumed too largely that god created the rules he follows. What they all really hate to acknowledge is the existence of a being that doesn't follow any rule except when convent and breaks every rule and in no way, shape or form ever stops being righteous or in the right. It terrifies and disturbs many the experiments that god actually runs and condones and just what the being actually does. It is inhuman, inhumane and makes monsters of us all, which is entirely the point.

Take another ride along the devils road, along the night road of paths between paths between lives between heaven and hell.


It is assumed that God follows his rules as we are told in scriptures to emulate him.

If he can say, do as I say and not as I do, then so can we if we emulate him.

Regards
DL


It's more along the lines that he can do what others claim to be able to do. Do as I say, not as I do, stems from that. For example, someone with tolerance to heat built up inside their mouths may dig right into a meal fresh from the oven without burning themselves. Anyone who follows suit without heat tolerance based on observation would likely injure themselves.


If so then God should have qualified his law from the get go.

A poorly written law should be thrown out by any discerning judge. I have seen that done in real life.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:16 pm

Good luck with that.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Kriswest » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:40 pm

DL,

If denying them the fruit prevents wanting to learn,,, then why are we not in trees? Could have God wanted them curious by denying? Possible. He did allow a bite or two.
If given all knowledge without mental maturity there would be dangerous repercussions. One has to gain moral understanding before delving into sciences. One actually has to control curiosity as well. I can see more then a few reasons to deny all knowledge to adults with infant maturity and curiosity. If that tree exists and we gain the knowledge on how to find it,, would you give access to all humans freely? I hope not.

All knowledge good and bad can be twisted. We in general still are not mature enough for that tree.
Being handed something gives little appreciation of it, spoiled rich kids comes to mind quickly.

As religion today is not what it was at the time these stories came about, what god is perceived as has changed.
How stories are interpreted creates views. The Jewish religion has sects just as Christian. This creates interpretations. Even we Atheists view the texts in different ways. You and I are examples of that.

We must all have different views to be individual and a social species. Evolution is not just physical it is mental. Experience must occur over generations. Instinct built, emotions must be used, thought, etc etc.
A god could not give experience, morals and understanding to creatures that were just birthed so to speak. Two infant humans having all knowledge and no mental abilities would have been disastrous.

Hey, I looked at my parents more then once and said "I hate you" and meant it at the time. They did what they had to do to protect and teach , it was not always pleasant. Pretty sure your folks did the same .
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:23 pm

Kriswest wrote:DL,

If denying them the fruit prevents wanting to learn,,, then why are we not in trees? Could have God wanted them curious by denying? Possible. He did allow a bite or two.
If given all knowledge without mental maturity there would be dangerous repercussions. One has to gain moral understanding before delving into sciences. One actually has to control curiosity as well. I can see more then a few reasons to deny all knowledge to adults with infant maturity and curiosity. If that tree exists and we gain the knowledge on how to find it,, would you give access to all humans freely? I hope not.

All knowledge good and bad can be twisted. We in general still are not mature enough for that tree.
Being handed something gives little appreciation of it, spoiled rich kids comes to mind quickly.

As religion today is not what it was at the time these stories came about, what god is perceived as has changed.
How stories are interpreted creates views. The Jewish religion has sects just as Christian. This creates interpretations. Even we Atheists view the texts in different ways. You and I are examples of that.

We must all have different views to be individual and a social species. Evolution is not just physical it is mental. Experience must occur over generations. Instinct built, emotions must be used, thought, etc etc.
A god could not give experience, morals and understanding to creatures that were just birthed so to speak. Two infant humans having all knowledge and no mental abilities would have been disastrous.

Hey, I looked at my parents more then once and said "I hate you" and meant it at the time. They did what they had to do to protect and teach , it was not always pleasant. Pretty sure your folks did the same .


You show much common sense.

True that knowledge is age related but the tree of knowledge is analogous to all knowledge and to us that would mean all schooling from pre-kindergarten right up to the highest degree we can earn in universities etc.

A good God would indeed allow and even insist on a bite or two. That is why the Jewish moral to the story is that of the elevation of man and not the fall that Christians put to the story.

In the Christian view, God wanted to deny any bite even though A & E were too ignorant and mentally blind to even know they were naked and could thus not reproduce.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Along The Way » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:58 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Random Factor wrote:The Bible itself is a mockery to the true God that exists. At the same time as remaining free of mockery to the perception of the true believer, it is nothing but mockery to those who believe in God the way religion paints it, a tongue in cheek insult delivered to the deluded, the power hungry, etc.

On all levels, in all ways, it serves all purposes, including being disrespectful to a god who never was proud to be called god. On all levels, in all ways, it falls far short of painting the truth and is limited to being a child's bedtime story at the very end even when painting god in the truest light that it can, for that is only the beginning of knowing the being beyond the title.

It is complicated sophistry and simple child's play and is never designed to even lead to the truth, but in all its ways designed to keep children spirits occupied in incomplete truths and falsities until it's too late for their prophecies to come true.


=D>

Regards
DL


Bad interpretations of the Bible are a mockery to a pure mind which knows how to interpret it positively. It's not the Bible's fault that people use what is in it for their own selfish agenda's.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby felix dakat » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:12 am

Greatest I am wrote:This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

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DL


The issue seems to turn on what you mean by "God" and "evil" neither of which you have defined.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Innovice » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:51 am

the golden rule + trying to go to heaven = the tower of babel

"i want to go to heaven" -> "how can i make this heaven for the other person"

they did that already

the result was God broke one language into many if I recall correctly (punishment)
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Innovice » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:53 am

golden rule:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8aJG1f815Q

note the language subtext in the video

we speak of the golden rule lightly, but when you really consider it, its not an easy rule to follow

it begs the reconciliatory question; it begs the power question;

hypocrisy is the answer
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Innovice » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:23 am

Greatest I am wrote:God then is clearly evil.


Sure, but this is not sufficient to define God.

Perhaps other ways to say it:

"Evil cannot exist without God"
"God created all that is perceived as Evil"
"God gave Satan his existence and is present in such"

Frankly, "Is" does not serve well as a verb in the case where omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience are of legitimate concerns.




To me, it feels like we need a verb to more accurately shape the meaning, the relationship, the identity (or rather the aspect of such).
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby The Eternal Warrior » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:42 pm

If God existing is dependent on his defeat of the devil and overcoming evil, it sounds more like symbiotic interdependency where God needs evil to be God and evil needs God to be evil. Without evil, god would never come into its own. Without God, no evil would ever have been pushed to the point to be defined as evil.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Kriswest » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:44 am

DL,

Thank you for that compliment.

Christians are primarily martyrs though mostly only the priests and preachers know this fully. It gives control. Christians cling to the past, Jewish look forward,, in general. Look at the two religions as siblings , siblings rarely view life the same even though raised almost identically. We need that though, we need the evolution of differences. To gain true knowledge as a species we must allow for differences even annoying or hateful or negative. A god would know that we must as a species experience difference must work out the problems to evolve. Hell we are a young species compared to the universe. You kick your kids out of the nest to let them grow. They hate it or love it at first then mature, hopefully. To say the god is evil or hateful is akin to denigrating all parents.
I have an idea, bear with me please, not sure I can flesh it out properly but, if anyone here can figure it out it would be you.
The ancients were flamboyant with descriptions. They were given to drama and comparisons, analogy. Our interpretations probably lack the true color. What if the universe was the tree and earth is the apple that Eve took. The god would have to be an energy being/entity. Adam and Eve birthed to have a species evolve into companion. Sentience is key. Look at the other species that have or may have sentience. Let's say that they possibly have beliefs. Ok the apple of knowledge is this planet. The ancients gave other species credit for personalities and intellect that we through religion and ego deny.
We are on the apple of knowledge to gain knowledge, eating that apple??? Help me out here, do you see something of what I am trying to get at?
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Meno_ » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:21 pm

I think the symbolism behind the apple is changing along with the ability to understand. ,one held, it represented knowledge of good and evil, later after they became relative concepts, it was knowledge per se, and I think that now, it may represents consciessness. Self consciessness, the ego, may be the ultimate purveyor, engendering a conflict between a sacred and profane creation of Man.
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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:57 pm

Along The Way wrote:[

Bad interpretations of the Bible are a mockery to a pure mind which knows how to interpret it positively. It's not the Bible's fault that people use what is in it for their own selfish agenda's.


“Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.”
William Blake.

--------

A pure mind would be a free thinking mind and not the mind of idol worshiping Christians. Right?

How would you phrase a positive interpretation of what God did in the story of his torture and murder of King David's baby, all because he was angry with the King?

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:59 pm

felix dakat wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


The issue seems to turn on what you mean by "God" and "evil" neither of which you have defined.


Webster's dictionary is available to all but it surprises me to know that you do not know what is good and what is evil.

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Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:14 pm

incorrect wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:God then is clearly evil.


Sure, but this is not sufficient to define God.

Perhaps other ways to say it:

"Evil cannot exist without God"
"God created all that is perceived as Evil"
"God gave Satan his existence and is present in such"

Frankly, "Is" does not serve well as a verb in the case where omnipotence, omnipresence, omniscience are of legitimate concerns.

To me, it feels like we need a verb to more accurately shape the meaning, the relationship, the identity (or rather the aspect of such).


Demiurge is what my religion in its myths, not in its beliefs, but it is a noun.

dem·i·urge
noun
: demiurge; plural noun: demiurges
a being responsible for the creation of the universe, in particular.
•(in Platonic philosophy) the Maker or Creator of the world.
•(in Gnosticism and other theological systems) a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual.

When speaking to Christians of Yahweh, who is a demiurge to me, I just use the more modern term of genocidal son murdering prick.

As a poetic mind, you might be able to shorten that for me without losing the flavor.

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