A Natural Religion

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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:08 pm

Since drug induced states act the same as fasting or meditation induced states, I'd say they are both spiritual, if spiritual is to mean the hinterlands of the mental. We do not see outside of what minds are capable of seeing. Don't you get tired of hearing abstract and ephemeral Eastern mysticism or Western metaphysics based on body hatred?
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby phyllo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:19 pm

Since drug induced states act the same as fasting or meditation induced states, I'd say they are both spiritual, if spiritual is to mean the hinterlands of the mental.
I'm not sure that "the hinterlands of the mental" show us anything real. Maybe it's just an entertaining dreamscape at best and a waste of time at its worse.
Don't you get tired of hearing abstract and ephemeral Eastern mysticism or Western metaphysics based on body hatred?
I can't think of a single positive thing coming out of 'body hatred'.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby phyllo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:25 pm

I guess that I'm skeptical about mystical and/or altered states. I tend to think that God is in the ordinary.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby Ierrellus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:01 pm

I mentioned the altered states of consciousness only to show that the spiritual has a place in the physical world. If the soul is not to be found in the pineal gland :D where is it located? Finding God in the ordinary requires a spiritual vision. The brain/mind is equipped to handle that.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:21 am

Ierrellus wrote:I mentioned the altered states of consciousness only to show that the spiritual has a place in the physical world. If the soul is not to be found in the pineal gland :D where is it located? Finding God in the ordinary requires a spiritual vision. The brain/mind is equipped to handle that.


A subtle profundity Ierrellus.

How can one see something that can't be seen ... ergo: invisible ... without spiritual vision.

Spiritual vision ... like telepathy and intuition ... is a natural human endowment.

Why are these human faculties exercised so rarely?

The appointed time has yet to arrive.

We are walking with one leg and cooking with one arm. :lol:
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby phyllo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:49 pm

If the soul is not to be found in the pineal gland :D where is it located?
It could be that 'soul' is just shorthand for your essence and that it does not reside anywhere. IOW, it may be inseparable from body and mind.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:53 pm

So long as the physical can be seen as separate from the spiritual, hence inferior to supposed loftier considerations, the true nature of what physicality entails will not be learned and science and religion will remain opposing ways of seeing.
Last edited by Ierrellus on Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:54 pm

phyllo wrote:
If the soul is not to be found in the pineal gland :D where is it located?
It could be that 'soul' is just shorthand for your essence and that it does not reside anywhere. IOW, it may be inseparable from body and mind.

I agree.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby phyllo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:59 pm

Finding God in the ordinary requires a spiritual vision. The brain/mind is equipped to handle that.
'Spiritual vision' would be some kind of mental processing of sensory inputs which uses different assumptions and filters than are used by those who lack 'spiritual vision'. Right?
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby Ierrellus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:19 pm

I don't think anyone is devoid of spiritual vision; some choose not to see things that way. This does not mean they are not equipped to do so. You may be right on the nature of mental processing involved. All I know is that some Eastern religions consider what is physical to be illusion at best and some Western religions consider physicality as the source of sin. Neither way of seeing the flesh admits to its natural beauty and the possible consideration that limitations imposed on the spirit by the flesh may just amount a self-imposed, limited way of seeing.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
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Posts: 12194
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Re: A Natural Religion

Postby phyllo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:35 pm

The limitations on the physical body are easy to see. But the spiritual is not necessarily perfect or unlimited. It's easy to write stories about the spiritual which are not based on anything but imagination.
"Only the educated are free" - Epictetus
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy" -Beethoven
"Everyday life is the way" -Wumen
"Do not permit the events of your daily life to bind you, but never withdraw yourself from them" - Wumen
phyllo
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Posts: 9486
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am
Location: Far away from the BS

Re: A Natural Religion

Postby Ierrellus » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:20 pm

Belief that evidence of a God is found in genetic evolution provides a view in which God can be described as personal and teleological. In this view, there is no objective, subjective dichotomy. There is no abstract entity to be worshipped and no practical path to an elusive, exclusive Godhead. The kingdom is truly within. Look inside to find who you are, where you are going and what God is.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12194
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

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