This argument probably doesn’t exist unless we first consider the universe to be a world of abstracts, or partial reals. Given that, I am now wondering if reality can only contain part-reals, and an incomplete ~ non-all encompassing universe of such. Which leaves us with the problem of filling reality with something that is whole, full and complete.
We cannot know what that is by looking at anything of this partial world [universe], but we can ask questions like;
if the otherworld is whole and complete, and we exist there in ‘spiritual’ form i.e. not made of particles but a whole being, why get born into the earthly realm?
Why would the universe occur et al?
Is this world born of ‘satan’ in that it goes against the grain – so to speak, of the otherworld? So many of the things we think are good like having kids and treading on people to climb the ladder of success, are playing to the devil?
If the otherworldly self is whole and complete, surely it can learn nothing from living in this world? All the lessons we think we are learning and gaining benefits from, are not actually adding anything spiritually?
Or if we put all that duality ~ heaven/hell, to one side, maybe this world was manifest for adventure, which the otherworld may be lacking in or to refresh the otherworld. Perhaps when the universe was born, the otherworld was born at the same time, as if they are part of an overall schemata? Something like, if you create a world of wholes [Elysium], the world of abstracts is automatically manifest respectively.
This leads me to the idea of ‘the calling’, that the time comes where the correlatives between one world and the other [as they are tied in a knot from the beginning], denotes when and where we are born. Which equally leads us to the idea of fate e.g. you have to meet that guy/gal by which your children will be the manifest, as required by the spiritual matrix – let us call it. Its like everything has to slot into place at certain points along the road, but not everything, as that would be utterly pointless and I can’t look at reality and see it being that stupid, especially at base. Instead the more I look the more intelligence I see, so I am not looking for answers based in our perception of the world being ridiculous.
From my many experiences here and a few elsewhere, this life IS an adventureland, sampling a taste, of a taste, of a taste(watered down like I wrote before) of the best that is offered and a likewise of the worst that is offered on various planes of existence.
I know there are more planes up and down. My soul’s fallen through them but too fast to discover anything about them. I fell from the plane of Peace: pure love and pure joy mixed together and I also fell into the plane of Torment: pure ???. It’s sooooooo bad there that it defies words, but the feeling of that plane left an indelible place of sorrow in me for those souls there as well as the fear of being there myself. No going down for me again, unless it is to release those souls somehow.
You are right about partial reals if you also mean partial truths. Clues are literally all around us about the what is needed of us on the emotional level and what we need to do to deliver those emotions to ourselves, others. Now I’ve written before that God, the Creator, exists. I will not know of his intentions with our existence until I get myself on all the upper planes and think the right questions. Thinking on a pure plane of emotion is difficult to put it mildly. Here it’s easy, but it’s not getting me any results or answers to the hard questions. I need help people. Faith in your will can only take you so far then somebody’s got to pick you up, put you on a chariot, or carry the load and far as I can tell Jesus isn’t around to carry it, me or you all either. I’ll get down now.
This level/world seams soooo slow to me, but I understand your sentiment. Before going into that, have you considered that each incarnation on each level, may actually be required to be complete/full?
Imho such planes are manifestation of mind and not actual worlds ~ a bit like the intermediate zones in buddhism. An actual world would have to have polar opposites such to denote perceived hellishness. Which is why from this world we can see visions of heaven/hell, as they are relative extremes denoted by this world being inbetween them, and is imho why they are not actual world.
This world is manifest in abstracts, so the only other possible real world is one of non abstracts.
You want it to stay that way, as the harder questions are going to require that it gets harder – much harder! Truth is earned.
Been several planes up(to emotion of Peace) and several down (emotion of Torment); I’ve felt the extremes of the soul’s capacity while mine is still “connected” to my fleshy body.
The soul is capable of separating its’ consciousness from the consciousness of the human being laying there in what appears to be a coma. Their important organ functions(that of flesh body and that of soul’s body have a relationship and physical alignment one more compact soul body inside the other larger, clunky body. Both bodies work in tandem while my fleshy body lives, however both bodies have their own (wait for it…wait for it…buzz word) agendas. Fleshy bodies gather data, information, etc.; soul bodies gather emotions, feelings, etc. Yes, I am allowed to use ‘etc.’
Tell me where do you feel your emotions, instincts, intuitions, hunches, etc.? I need the exact locale/s in your physical fleshy body? Do they differ from where I have noted them in another thread?
For me, thinking is easy here in this plane; feeling is not exactly as easy by a long shot. BTW, love using ; whenever I think I can get away with it!
I have a lot of questions which I must find answers, and taking the physical limitations in stride isn’t easy. I’ve already written as much somewhere on here.
So far I can’t imagine anything better or worse. Imagine<—key word. I have to investigate further via my chosen method of astral projection I shared already on another thread. If you have an easier, yellow brick road along which I can skip perhaps years of future frustration, give me a holler.
St John of the Cross provides some insight … he suggests two ‘dark nights’ … the dark Night of the Soul and the dark Night of the Spirit … the latter being much more difficult to endure. As far as I know his writings only address the the Dark Night of the Soul.
That’s the thing though, you can only experience such ‘mental realms’ because you are centred in the flesh ~ in this body and earth. This being the middle means that extremes are going to appear high or low, good or bad rather than in-between.
I agree that naturally there is an intimate connection between body and spirit. I could even conceive that there is no spirit or soul while we are in corporeal form [that after death the mind is completely transformed].
I don’t see such a duality.
I experience them in the subjective mind which I think is in metaposition, but they all emanate from the brain/body and measurably so.
there are no easy road, mine has been long and arduous where at times my mind has thought things I specifically didn’t want it to [happens in everyone of course].
P-tom
Interesting. Being brought up in an atheist household I haven’t read much Christian literature. Because I read Buddhist, Taoist and Hindu works first, when I come across Christian philosophies [if there are such things] I tend to view them as works based in dualism – if you’ll forgive me. That doesn’t mean I don’t learn from them, and I am sure the human soul suffers the same torment irrespective of one’s leanings, as we are all in the same world and have the same bodies/brains.
“I experience them in the subjective mind which I think is in metaposition, but they all emanate from the brain/body and measurably so.”
Metaposition? brain/body?
Where do you feel shame? Excitement? Fear? Love? Sorrow? Dread? Get more specific, name the body part.
I challenge you to investigate your soul. If you believe that your brain mind is the sole processing center of your emotions, please explain your reasons.
Metaposition – because what the consciousness sees, is not light, and cannot be seen by looking inside ones brain with a camera. Brain/body, because the brain is somewhat distinct from the body [see brain-in-a-vat arguments, the matrix etc.
I feel them in the relative centres of the brain!? though I don’t think anyone knows exactly how or where, but whenever they look they find specific neurons e.g. for memories. If we add to that, that all aspects can be changed by changing the chemicals, then it doesn’t seem very likely that these things are going to be based in something which is not physical.
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I need help people. Faith in your will can only take you so far then somebody’s got to pick you up, put you on a chariot, or carry the load and far as I can tell Jesus isn’t around to carry it, me or you all either. 
I’ll get down now.
Fleshy bodies gather data, information, etc.; soul bodies gather emotions, feelings, etc. Yes, I am allowed to use ‘etc.’
