Will we get a syncretistic religion?

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Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Yes.
10
63%
No.
4
25%
I don't know.
2
13%
 
Total votes : 16

Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby MagsJ » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:41 am

Tweet from a local church:
If you're white, educated, middle-aged, male and straight, you're welcome in our church. You're also welcome if you're none of these.


Most London churches are near all now non-denominational.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Jr Wells » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:10 am

Sorry to hear that you are from London. Immigration is an option for you.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:12 am

MagsJ wrote:Tweet from a local chuch:
If you're white, educated, middle-aged, male and straight, you're welcome in our church. You're also welcome if you're none of these.

The second sentence annihilates the first sentence. So why is there the first sentence? The writers of this two sentences make themselves untrustworthy and attackable. :-k

MagsJ wrote:Most London churches are near all now non-denominational.

What does that exactly mean? "Non--denominational" does not mean the same in every country. So is it possible in the UK that even members of Non-Christian religions can join a Christian church by keeping / maintaining their Non-Christian religions?
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby MagsJ » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:01 am

Jr Wells wrote:Sorry to hear that you are from London. Immigration is an option for you.
Thanks for the tip :-?

I'm currently very happy in London.

Arminius wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Most London churches are near all now non-denominational.

What does that exactly mean? "Non--denominational" does not mean the same in every country. So is it possible in the UK that even members of Non-Christian religions can join a Christian church by keeping / maintaining their Non-Christian religions?
All are welcome
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:46 am

MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Most London churches are near all now non-denominational.

What does that exactly mean? "Non--denominational" does not mean the same in every country. So is it possible in the UK that even members of Non-Christian religions can join a Christian church by keeping / maintaining their Non-Christian religions?
All are welcome

And you do not value it by saying i.e. "that's not good" or i.e "that's good"?
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Jr Wells » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:16 am

MagsJ wrote:
Jr Wells wrote:Sorry to hear that you are from London. Immigration is an option for you.
Thanks for the tip :-?

I'm currently very happy in London.

:D
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:21 am

Jr Wells wrote:Sorry, I am not going to read other threads.

Do you also not read other posts? :wink:

Jr Wells wrote:If I needed to read other threads then I do not see why you made this one.
... I would have responded to those.

You joined ILP on 9. November 2014, and my thread "Will machines completely replace all human beings? " started on 3. April 2014.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Moreno » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:09 pm

Arminius wrote:Brahmanism /Hinduisms, Buddhism, Jainism and others are syncretistic religions or metaphysics (philosophies); and Judaism, Christianity, Islam are - more or less - also syncretiistic religions: Judaism because of the Babylonian / Persian (cp. Parsee, Zoroastrianism), Egyptian, and Ancient Greek (cp. especially Platonism and Stoicism) forms, Christianity because of Judaism (see there), Manichaeism which is also Persian (see there), and Neoplatonism which is also Ancient Greek (sse there), Islam because of Judaism (see there) and Christianity (see there). Beside this famous religions we have also not so famous religions which are also - more or less - syncretistic religions. So you are right when you say that "we already have many" syncretistic religions. But if we consider all aspects, we have to say that they are also not syncretistic religions, because they have developed their own forms too. And in some cases we have to say that all religions are syncretistic religions, because they all trace back to one primeval religion (primitive religion), the first religion.

"Will we get a syncretistic religion?" as the title of this thread postulates "singly" religions, regardless whether they are already syncretistic religions or not; so the question means whether all this "singly" religions will lead to merely one syncretistic religion.
Ah, no, I dont think so. Even if there was some generalized merging, there will likely always be new things popping up and getting followers. That said, if we get programmed cyberized merged with AI - re, your other threads - then this will come with an implicit (and possibily explicit) metaphysics. Then you might have unity and there are certainly forces that want unity of belief.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby MagsJ » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:53 pm

Arminius wrote:
MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:What does that exactly mean? "Non--denominational" does not mean the same in every country. So is it possible in the UK that even members of Non-Christian religions can join a Christian church by keeping / maintaining their Non-Christian religions?
All are welcome

And you do not value it by saying i.e. "that's not good" or i.e "that's good"?

It's not about assigning a value to it, but about why this is happening in (mainly) inner-city areas... those who inter-marry can now worship without the need for converting to/choosing the others' religion. A case of modern day problems getting modern day solutions.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Jr Wells » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:30 pm

Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:Brahmanism /Hinduisms, Buddhism, Jainism and others are syncretistic religions or metaphysics (philosophies); and Judaism, Christianity, Islam are - more or less - also syncretiistic religions: Judaism because of the Babylonian / Persian (cp. Parsee, Zoroastrianism), Egyptian, and Ancient Greek (cp. especially Platonism and Stoicism) forms, Christianity because of Judaism (see there), Manichaeism which is also Persian (see there), and Neoplatonism which is also Ancient Greek (sse there), Islam because of Judaism (see there) and Christianity (see there). Beside this famous religions we have also not so famous religions which are also - more or less - syncretistic religions. So you are right when you say that "we already have many" syncretistic religions. But if we consider all aspects, we have to say that they are also not syncretistic religions, because they have developed their own forms too. And in some cases we have to say that all religions are syncretistic religions, because they all trace back to one primeval religion (primitive religion), the first religion.

"Will we get a syncretistic religion?" as the title of this thread postulates "singly" religions, regardless whether they are already syncretistic religions or not; so the question means whether all this "singly" religions will lead to merely one syncretistic religion.
Ah, no, I dont think so. Even if there was some generalized merging, there will likely always be new things popping up and getting followers. That said, if we get programmed cyberized merged with AI - re, your other threads - then this will come with an implicit (and possibily explicit) metaphysics. Then you might have unity and there are certainly forces that want unity of belief.

Agreed
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:49 am

MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:What does that exactly mean? "Non--denominational" does not mean the same in every country. So is it possible in the UK that even members of Non-Christian religions can join a Christian church by keeping / maintaining their Non-Christian religions?
All are welcome
MagsJ wrote:
Arminius wrote:And you do not value it by saying i.e. "that's not good" or i.e "that's good"?

It's not about assigning a value to it, but about why this is happening in (mainly) inner-city areas... those who inter-marry can now worship without the need for converting to/choosing the others' religion. A case of modern day problems getting modern day solutions.

Yes. But nevertheless: it is about tassigning a value to it, because one values such developments, if one has enough mind for valuing it. Therefore I asked the question which is about tassigning a value to it. To be honest, I say that it is not a good development, because the other people who don't want it will probably become fundamental and more fundamental, fanatic and more fanatic, extreme and more extreme, thus dangerous and more dangerous. There are always Non-Christian people who do not want to join a Christian church, and mostly this people are more than those who want to join a Christian church. Do you know what I mean? I am talking aboout a religious "arms race".

Jr Wells wrote:
Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:Brahmanism /Hinduisms, Buddhism, Jainism and others are syncretistic religions or metaphysics (philosophies); and Judaism, Christianity, Islam are - more or less - also syncretiistic religions: Judaism because of the Babylonian / Persian (cp. Parsee, Zoroastrianism), Egyptian, and Ancient Greek (cp. especially Platonism and Stoicism) forms, Christianity because of Judaism (see there), Manichaeism which is also Persian (see there), and Neoplatonism which is also Ancient Greek (sse there), Islam because of Judaism (see there) and Christianity (see there). Beside this famous religions we have also not so famous religions which are also - more or less - syncretistic religions. So you are right when you say that "we already have many" syncretistic religions. But if we consider all aspects, we have to say that they are also not syncretistic religions, because they have developed their own forms too. And in some cases we have to say that all religions are syncretistic religions, because they all trace back to one primeval religion (primitive religion), the first religion.

"Will we get a syncretistic religion?" as the title of this thread postulates "singly" religions, regardless whether they are already syncretistic religions or not; so the question means whether all this "singly" religions will lead to merely one syncretistic religion.
Ah, no, I dont think so. Even if there was some generalized merging, there will likely always be new things popping up and getting followers. That said, if we get programmed cyberized merged with AI - re, your other threads - then this will come with an implicit (and possibily explicit) metaphysics. Then you might have unity and there are certainly forces that want unity of belief.

Agreed

I don't know whether I agree or not, but that doesn't matter, because I am merely the questioner. So let me ask you another question: What could those "forces that want unity of belief" be?
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Uccisore » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:55 am

MagsJ wrote:Tweet from a local church:
If you're white, educated, middle-aged, male and straight, you're welcome in our church. You're also welcome if you're none of these.


Most London churches are near all now non-denominational.


And how's attendence?
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Moreno » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:01 pm

Arminius wrote:I don't know whether I agree or not, but that doesn't matter, because I am merely the questioner. So let me ask you another question: What could the "certainly forces that want unity of belief" be?

Inside many religions and certainly in the monotheisms there is the idea that everyone should have the same God(s)/religion I have. So there are forces interested in marketing and coversion within these. Then in general you have a worldview that is trying to cover the entire planet. This worldview sees everying and modular, physical, marketable, controllable, sum of its parts, empty and, in a sense' inorganic or engineerable and best engineered. This is a religion and one that is promoted via media, advertising, many films, technological replacement of nature, patenting of life both at the organismic level and in terms of parts (for example, genes). Since this is not a theist worldview it is often seen as not religious (let alone insane) but it is. So I see forces amassed behind spreading this. Hence the irritation caused by other kinds of (insane or not) regimes or holdouts - communist, islamist, pagan, anarchist/libertarian, vitalist or whatever.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:06 am

Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:I don't know whether I agree or not, but that doesn't matter, because I am merely the questioner. So let me ask you another question: What could the "certainly forces that want unity of belief" be?

Inside many religions and certainly in the monotheisms there is the idea that everyone should have the same God(s)/religion I have. So there are forces interested in marketing and coversion within these. Then in general you have a worldview that is trying to cover the entire planet. This worldview sees everying and modular, physical, marketable, controllable, sum of its parts, empty and, in a sense' inorganic or engineerable and best engineered. This is a religion and one that is promoted via media, advertising, many films, technological replacement of nature, patenting of life both at the organismic level and in terms of parts (for example, genes). Since this is not a theist worldview it is often seen as not religious (let alone insane) but it is. So I see forces amassed behind spreading this. Hence the irritation caused by other kinds of (insane or not) regimes or holdouts - communist, islamist, pagan, anarchist/libertarian, vitalist or whatever.

So you mean somethimg that is not that new in the history of the last 6000 years, but what has really become new since the modern Occidental times is the huge dimension, the technical development, especially the enormous acceleration of the technical development, and - as a result - the possibility that machines replace all human beings. Humans have always tried to design a new religion, but this time the designers will probably either integrate or exterminate all humans of this planet, and this will probably include a huge reduction of the number of the humans.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Moreno » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:22 pm

Arminius wrote:
Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:I don't know whether I agree or not, but that doesn't matter, because I am merely the questioner. So let me ask you another question: What could the "certainly forces that want unity of belief" be?

Inside many religions and certainly in the monotheisms there is the idea that everyone should have the same God(s)/religion I have. So there are forces interested in marketing and coversion within these. Then in general you have a worldview that is trying to cover the entire planet. This worldview sees everying and modular, physical, marketable, controllable, sum of its parts, empty and, in a sense' inorganic or engineerable and best engineered. This is a religion and one that is promoted via media, advertising, many films, technological replacement of nature, patenting of life both at the organismic level and in terms of parts (for example, genes). Since this is not a theist worldview it is often seen as not religious (let alone insane) but it is. So I see forces amassed behind spreading this. Hence the irritation caused by other kinds of (insane or not) regimes or holdouts - communist, islamist, pagan, anarchist/libertarian, vitalist or whatever.

So you mean somethimg that is not that new in the history of the last 6000 years, but what has really become new since the modern Occidental times is the huge dimension, the technical development, especially the enormous acceleration of the technical development, and - as a result - the possibility that machines replace all human beings. Humans have always tried to design a new religion, but this time the designers will probably either integrate or exterminate all humans of this planet, and this will probably include a huge reduction of the number of the humans.
I think of it more as a semi-humanness. The machines being somewhat like us. I would guess that the seeds of the philosophical bias and need have always been around, but sure, they have taken on more obvious forms recently. A real anti-life hatred, that in most of its advocates is not fully conscious. And you can do a lot of this destruction of life via psychology. IOW there have been cultural facets in parenting, training, societal organization, religion, etc., for a long time that want to squeeze the life out of humans - and out of the world in general. You don't need AI and nano and gm to do this, but these technologies can be used much more effectively. And I suppose the main point I want ot make is it comes from a metaphysical/religious position, though most of today's powerful advocates think of themselves not to be religious.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:44 am

I often say that those who say or/and think that they are not religious are more religious than those who say or/and think that they are religious. Not the truth but the lie is the easier and more effective way when it comes to get, to keep, and to expand power.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby James S Saint » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:14 am

Once the significance of the machines out weighs that of humans, humans will simply be outmoded and shortly eliminated, no different than horses in the transportation industry. The process is already well on its way. Machines allow for remote controlled pseudo-life on Earth - the Godwannabe's dream.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Moreno » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:25 pm

Arminius wrote:I often say that those who say or/and think that they are not religious are more religious than those who say or/and think that they are religious. Not the truth but the lie is the easier and more effective way when it comes to get, to keep, and to expand power.
CAn that change? (not that I disagree with what you have said. Mistreating yourself, in certain ways, leads to power and the mistreatment of others. Accepting only a part of yourself and mistreating the other parts is another way to label the issue.)
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:16 am

Moreno wrote:
Arminius wrote:I often say that those who say or/and think that they are not religious are more religious than those who say or/and think that they are religious. Not the truth but the lie is the easier and more effective way when it comes to get, to keep, and to expand power.
CAn that change?

Well, the rulers need the lie in order to rule, and those who are ruled need the lie in order to not to be pushed over the edge. The truth is that humans need the lie and that humans also need the truth in order to overcome the lie, but the question is whether and, if yes, when they will fully overcome the lie (when the machines will have taken over ? ? ?).
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby MagsJ » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:41 pm

Uccisore wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Tweet from a local church:
If you're white, educated, middle-aged, male and straight, you're welcome in our church. You're also welcome if you're none of these.


Most London churches are near all now non-denominational.


And how's attendence?

According to the Vicar I spoke to.. great!

They are community churches that hold community events as well as your standard mass service, so the appeal is magnified to a wider audience of attendees. On Easter Sunday one of my local churches screened a film.. complete with live music score, and there was a procession of the 'bearing of the cross' consisting of churches from all over London... I wish I'd made it to them, but family were round. :|
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Wandering_Lands » Tue May 26, 2015 8:34 pm

James S Saint wrote:Once the significance of the machines out weighs that of humans, humans will simply be outmoded and shortly eliminated, no different than horses in the transportation industry. The process is already well on its way. Machines allow for remote controlled pseudo-life on Earth - the Godwannabe's dream.


No they won't. Machines will never outweigh the flexible and limitless capabilities of human beings, for they are mere automatons made by us, and that there has never been a demonstration of a robot showing some true autonomy.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Tue May 26, 2015 11:01 pm

Wandering_Lands wrote:
James S Saint wrote:Once the significance of the machines out weighs that of humans, humans will simply be outmoded and shortly eliminated, no different than horses in the transportation industry. The process is already well on its way. Machines allow for remote controlled pseudo-life on Earth - the Godwannabe's dream.

No they won't. Machines will never outweigh the flexible and limitless capabilities of human beings, for they are mere automatons made by us, and that there has never been a demonstration of a robot showing some true autonomy.

In consideration of the fact that humans control, want to control, and have to control humans because of the human will to recognition, appreciation, acceptance, acknowledgement, tribute, credit, thus to power, the probability of the realisation of that "limitless capabilities" you are talking about, is unfortunately reduced.

Perhaps you are also interested in the following thread.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:41 pm

phyllo wrote:Does Christianity need God and/or Christ? Maybe love is all it needs.
Is Progressive Christianity the wave of the future or is it simply the throwing away God and Jesus in the name of love, compassion and inclusiveness?

If you stop talking about God and Jesus Christ, then differences and conflict will be reduced. And that's a good thing.

A "Christianity without God and Jesus Christ" would not be a Christianity anymore. It would be a modern religion, thus an ideological exercise, an ideological training.

phyllo wrote:Didn't the Dalai Lama suggest that religion needs to be eliminated in order to move forward?
All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.

https://www.facebook.com/DalaiLama/post ... 2842097616

If spirituality is an exercise or a training, then it is something like a religion too (see above), thus "beyond religion" is a rhetorical term - used in order to get the global version of something like a syncretistic religion.
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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Lev Muishkin » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:24 pm

Arminius wrote:Will we get a syncretistic religion?


Will we ever get a non syncretic religion. ALL religions are syncretic.

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Re: Will we get a syncretistic religion?

Postby Arminius » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:20 pm

You are wrong again. Try to read this thread or at least the following text:

Religious syncretism exhibits blending of two or more religious belief systems into a new system, or the incorporation into a religious tradition of beliefs from unrelated traditions. This can occur for many reasons, and the latter scenario happens quite commonly in areas where multiple religious traditions exist in proximity and function actively in the culture, or when a culture is conquered, and the conquerors bring their religious beliefs with them, but do not succeed in entirely eradicating the old beliefs or, especially, practices.

Religions may have syncretic elements to their beliefs or history, but adherents of so-labeled systems often frown on applying the label, especially adherents who belong to "revealed" religious systems, such as the Abrahamic religions, or any system that exhibits an exclusivist approach. Such adherents sometimes see syncretism as a betrayal of their pure truth. By this reasoning, adding an incompatible belief corrupts the original religion, rendering it no longer true. Indeed, critics of a specific syncretistic trend may sometimes use the word "syncretism" as a disparaging epithet, as a charge implying that those who seek to incorporate a new view, belief, or practice into a religious system actually distort the original faith. Non-exclusivist systems of belief, on the other hand, may feel quite free to incorporate other traditions into their own. Others state that the term syncretism is an elusive one, and can be applied to refer to substitution or modification of the central elements of a dominant religion by beliefs or practices introduced from somewhere else. The consequence under this definition, according to Keith Ferdinando, is a fatal compromise of the dominant religion's integrity.

In modern secular society, religious innovators sometimes create new religions syncretically as a mechanism to reduce inter-religious tension and enmity, often with the effect of offending the original religions in question. Such religions, however, do maintain some appeal to a less exclusivist audience.

If you are not interested in this thread, then search for another thread.
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