phyllo wrote:Is that going to be your answer to Gib? In his latest post, he also said that you are not open to change.Making me the argument. I get that part.
What can I say...
I point out all of the many times in the past that I have changed my mind regarding God and religion. And regarding most other things relating to the world of dasein, conflicting goods and political economy. But not only does this not impress you, you scoff at it.
And then I note how it is also true that for many years now, I have been entangled in my dilemma above. As this relates to the manner in which I construe the relationship between God/No God, as this relates to the relationship between morality on this side of the grave and our fate on the other side of it.
I can't just change my mind about this because it bothers folks like you that of late I haven't.
But here I am in places like this searching for other narratives.
Or maybe you just get hung up on my polemical bent. Or the part where I use these exchanges to entertain myself while waiting patiently for godot.
Because you are not "inside my head" and really know nothing at all about my motivations and intentions here [let alone a life lived leading up to them] how would I really even begin to effectively narrow the gap between us?
What "here and now" do you believe your own fate to be "beyond"? How is this related to your current belief in God? And what of those who reject your frame of mind -- the stuff that you claim to believe or know to be true "in your head"? What is to be their own fate?
I don't know how many times I'm supposed to say "I don't know", "It's not my decision", "It's not under my control".
Now, if that should ever change, please consider bringing the new revelations here.
phyllo wrote: What's wrong with saying that I don't know what is beyond? What's wrong with saying that I don't know what a judgement by God would be like? Or if there even is a judgement?
It seems more honest than claiming that I know all about God and the afterlife, as some people do.
If I don't know my fate in "the beyond", how can I possibly claim to know the fate of the people who disagree with me?
Again, fair enough.
It just fascinates me how those who embody both a belief in God and a belief in objective morality, are able to describe the manner in which this all unfolds "in their head" when they reach those existential junctures where their values do come into conflict with others.
How does God and religion play a part for them "out in the world" of competing wants and needs? Of competing means and ends?
What does it mean to encompass a particular moral agenda here regarding an issue like abortion? Such that one is convinced that The Right Thing To Do is within reach, and one believes that God and religion are a factor in this.
How is this all intertwined in their head?
I always come back to this:
With so much at stake -- immortality, salvation, divine justice -- how could a loving, just and merciful God really leave any room for doubt?
phyllo wrote: Revelations? I have learned a few things over the years. There are productive behaviors and destructive behaviors in the here and now. People are damaging their own lives. I can try to bring that to their attention but I can't make them do anything. I'm not living their lives for them.
I'm not preaching.
Well, at least you have this. For me "productive" and "destructive" bahaviors are still largely embedded in dasein, conflicting goods and political economy. They are largely just "existential contraptions" rooted subjectively in the lives that we live out in a particular world viewed from a particular point of view. Out in a world where [from my frame of mind] there is no transcending font that mere mortals can turn to in order to place their wagers on the right God.
Or the right Reason.