Muḥammad al-Ghazālī and the poetic abcreation of reason

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Re: Muḥammad al-Ghazālī and the poetic abcreation of reason

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:17 pm

Feel welcome to continue posting here. I have given you my arguments, but this thread is meant as an investigation into the man, as I think this is not common enough on the internet. I actually would like this thread to appear in Google searches for Muḥammad al-Ghazālī so that debate about him can acquire some of the critical perspectives I have presented. But for this to happen, much positive must be said as well.
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I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: Muḥammad al-Ghazālī and the poetic abcreation of reason

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:13 pm

"I do not think that he was trying to be a philosopher either, in which way we use the term philosophy nowdays. But, the problem of that time was that there was not much clear dividing line between philosophy and religion. Both were much conflated."

That is still the case.
This is what VO resolves; it ontologizes the valuing of which religion consists.
With VO, it is no longe possible to have a "mere perspective" or random values -
The only real value is valuing ---
which incidentally is the value standard on which the capital-markets operate.
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I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Objective Idealism.

Postby Sauwelios » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:50 am

Great thread, FC! Not sure I agree with you on Aristotle, Newton and Einstein though. In my videos, I have (among other things) been pursuing the thread of esoteric(?) Aristotelianism. The house that is lived in--dwelled in!--is the final cause and the only true cause of the whole thing--the whole that is more than the sum of its parts; also the "value-in-itself", the intrinsic value that is the extrinsic value of the whole process that leads up to it. The workers, too, all want Home. And that is the only thing that justifies the cutting down of the healthy, ripe tree for wood. The formal cause is a reflection of the final cause.

"The question 'why?' is always a question after the causa finalis, after the 'what for?' We have no 'sense for the causa efficiens'[.]" (WP 550.)

The answer to the question 'why is there something rather than nothing?' is indeed the intrinsic value--pleasure! or joy, if you will--of valuing. But what is this self-valuing really? The living home is the goal of the building process, and it's extrinsic unless the process is itself experienced as such a home. And even the inhabitants of the house may be unaware of the intrinsic value of their living there. In a way it's only a dwelling when they are aware. The ultimate goal is wisdom, the ultimate path is philosophy: as Novalis said, "Philosophy is really homesickness: urge to be at home everywhere." Poiesis noeseos.
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Re: Muḥammad al-Ghazālī and the poetic abcreation of reason

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:31 pm

Thanks!
You raise many points, all of them intertwined but I will lift one or two out now.

I rather see the pleasure/joy as the organic form of the necessity of being, which is there simply because non-being can not enforce itself, whereas being can. Being could only fulfill its necessity under certain conditions, namely self-affirming conditions.

Note that I never philosophize about value, only about self-valuing.
To me the term value is entirely conditional to the WtP/SelfValuing.
Power is the only real value there is (the thing there is will-to) and this power is the will-to... itself.

So existence has value only because it is valuing, and thus most attribute value.
But this value is not the logos. The logos as I see it is self-valuing, and the world is its differential.
(the event of interaction of self-valuings, willings to power)

Lastly - I could never feel at home in Amsterdam, nor in any European place that I found except the North Sea coast and Greece - I finally found come in Quebec, at the Royal Mountain here. Since I have VO, I have been forced to value the physical world in terms of my standards, which means not to adapt my standard to what happens to be around me (nor to adapt my interpretation of whats around me to my standards), as Novalis suggests, but to establish a place on Earth that can be a bedrock on which I can build without compromise of my self-valuing.

A physical heart of a worldly philosophic empire has always been the aim. I first sought this in Europe. But there I found only the past and the timeless,

Nonetheless, the value that my self valuing attributes to the world is identified very effectively by the Odinic world, the runes, and by the Homeric world. Poseidon is closely related to the Horn of Plenty, which is a good symbol of Self-Valuing.

My Home, or the first pile of it driven into the ground, as it finally came to me (yes, my home came to me);

Image

The cattle come slowly though the mud from the north. The bulls horns are adorned with iron. The cows, a trail longer than the eye can see in the january mist, will provide wealth, meat and milk. Newly woven baskets with fine flowers on long stems in them are carried by girls standing along the path. The tower of brick and natural stone is visible above the welcoming.

A beginning of a prosperous phase. The winter as a time of reward; a time given to the rich, the happy. Endless festivities, music, stories told in great halls to many happy feasters. Outside the forests are unthreatening, well guarded by archers in thick yet silent leather in which they move well and swiftly, trained by long standing tradition. Villains are shown some mercy.


I dont know if you can sense it, but this home is coupled to a scent, or a certain quality thereof.

I do not know what will happen to Europe in the near future. But I do know the way in which it will come home to itself. I cant see when that is going to begin happening, and I am not in any kind of hurry. In this sense yes, the path is the home - the path that leaves fertile chaos in its wake, URUZ.
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I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
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Re: Muḥammad al-Ghazālī and the poetic abcreation of reason

Postby Sauwelios » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:14 am

Fixed Cross wrote:Thanks!
You raise many points, all of them intertwined but I will lift one or two out now.

I rather see the pleasure/joy as the organic form of the necessity of being, which is there simply because non-being can not enforce itself, whereas being can.


I don't find that persuasive. At least it means non-being can enforce itself as being, can force itself into being.


Being could only fulfill its necessity under certain conditions, namely self-affirming conditions.


I do agree with this. If there's non-being, it's only the non-being whose enforcing being would be pleasurable to itself that will force itself into being.


Note that I never philosophize about value, only about self-valuing.
To me the term value is entirely conditional to the WtP/SelfValuing.


But "value" already had meaning before you coined "self-valuing". In order to understand the latter concept, then, I need to understand what valuing is. As you know, in my recordings I've traced it back for myself to "will". So indeed, WtP/SV.


Power is the only real value there is (the thing there is will-to) and this power is the will-to... itself.


Do you distinguish between power and the feeling of power, though?


So existence has value only because it is valuing, and thus most attribute value.
But this value is not the logos. The logos as I see it is self-valuing, and the world is its differential.
(the event of interaction of self-valuings, willings to power)

Lastly - I could never feel at home in Amsterdam, nor in any European place that I found except the North Sea coast and Greece - I finally found come in Quebec, at the Royal Mountain here. Since I have VO, I have been forced to value the physical world in terms of my standards, which means not to adapt my standard to what happens to be around me (nor to adapt my interpretation of whats around me to my standards), as Novalis suggests, but to establish a place on Earth that can be a bedrock on which I can build without compromise of my self-valuing.


What you say Novalis suggests is not what I meant to suggest by citing him. It is indeed to impose one's own standards "everywhere", though for me now that means in the first place to _see_ Home in it, the whole that is more than the sum of its parts. An unheimlich home, to be sure, in which only a mystical philosopher can be at home.

The term "mystical philosophy" seems to have been claimed for Al-Ghazali and company. I want to reclaim it, to mean something like what "political philosophy" means in Strauss and company, or "religious philosophy" in previous texts of mine. God is dead and nature is history, but natural history _is_ this dead God! A divine undead, the beautiful terror of the Real.

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Re: Muḥammad al-Ghazālī and the poetic abcreation of reason

Postby Fixed Cross » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:16 am

Sauwelios wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:Thanks!
You raise many points, all of them intertwined but I will lift one or two out now.

I rather see the pleasure/joy as the organic form of the necessity of being, which is there simply because non-being can not enforce itself, whereas being can.


I don't find that persuasive. At least it means non-being can enforce itself as being, can force itself into being.

I rather mean to be stating an analytic fact, that non being has no power, and to exist requires power (to exist) so therefore non being isn't there, but rather, being is there.

Being could only fulfill its necessity under certain conditions, namely self-affirming conditions.


I do agree with this. If there's non-being, it's only the non-being whose enforcing being would be pleasurable to itself that will force itself into being.

How do you see non-being enforcing anything?
This is not the point I was making, in any case.
I mean simply that self-negating conditions would negate themselves, just as the (non-being) nature of non-being negates that it could be.
This I see as Heideggerian linguistics, a branch of Nietzschean logic that doesn't ever find resolution except in contradiction, which points to the error in taking the law of identity as applying to meaningful concepts rather than only to empty terms; mathematics fully "obeys" it, physics doesn't, as the terms of physics are derivatives of empirical data whereas mathematics are pure metaphysics, where the law of identity appears to apply absolutely.

Note that I never philosophize about value, only about self-valuing.
To me the term value is entirely conditional to the WtP/SelfValuing.


But "value" already had meaning before you coined "self-valuing". In order to understand the latter concept, then, I need to understand what valuing is. As you know, in my recordings I've traced it back for myself to "will". So indeed, WtP/SV.

Yes. Not only did "value" already had meaning, the whole world was made of it. Good, or evil, etc - a transvaluation of valuing itself caused all values to fall away. Like the spokes in a wheel when the axis comes free and seeks a new wheel to be the center of. And in this way I mean to re-arrange those environment that I do not like, so as to be able to make them my own. But this goes first through the core of the world, the world-axis, Eihwaz.

Image

And to arrive at such a "pile-driving" direction, which is power and not just the feeling of it - power to destroy and create worlds (Hagalaz-Eihwaz as Shiva-Rudra) - a lot of "joy" has to be disclosed first - "meaning" - as signified by Jera(z), then - in short: First Harvest, then War. Doing it the other way around the once is much more than enough.

Power is the only real value there is (the thing there is will-to) and this power is the will-to... itself.


Do you distinguish between power and the feeling of power, though?

Somewhat. But I am aware that in feeling entities, it is the feeling of power that determines their choices.

What you say Novalis suggests is not what I meant to suggest by citing him. It is indeed to impose one's own standards "everywhere", though for me now that means in the first place to _see_ Home in it, the whole that is more than the sum of its parts. An unheimlich home, to be sure, in which only a mystical philosopher can be at home.

I don't like that, as it is to me untrue to the Earth, and to the specificity of human valuing. I have my environments, the habitats that support the values Ive arrived at by strengthening my self-valuing. Amsterdam is full of slaves, people Ive learned to absolutely detest, people that literally make me vomit. Ive never been happy for a second in Amsterdam. Content, sure. But contentedness sickens me as well.

As Ive tried to make clear since I have this valuing- based ethics of judgement, I see living beings as much as a fabric of "stuff" as the atmosophere is such a fabric, I simply can not thrive among those people that reverently work with values that I find ugly. And it is a sign of weakness to not judge an environment for its merits - or a delusion. Because it is simply not possible to change a human environment if ones values are so very much antithetical to the generally upheld ones. It is like causing oxygen to be nitrogen just because one has need of it.

Within self-valuing logic, the valuing tendencies of humans are as "hard" and consistent as those of dead beings. But human values ar for a good deal in the mind, making for environments such as cities and cultures.

Its my Amsterdam that I loathe, mind you - it is not (entirely) the same place to you. I am happy enough to have a stronghold in Amsterdam through you, though would not mourn if you would decide to leave. As we've written about (lets keep the specifics private to keep the price down, haha) there are certain conditions that could tempt you to switch environments - to follow my train of thought, see philosophy as a worldly game. I take Zarathustra's command to stay true to the Earth as the first and foremost command from the great man, and I take it as literally as I can in every situation I am evaluating.

The term "mystical philosophy" seems to have been claimed for Al-Ghazali and company. I want to reclaim it, to mean something like what "political philosophy" means in Strauss and company, or "religious philosophy" in previous texts of mine. God is dead and nature is history, but natural history _is_ this dead God! A divine undead, the beautiful terror of the Real.

Ah but my Gods are far from dead... and far from being mystical... they drive the hearts of my warriors.


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Viserion

I'd like to see the Qlippothic Tree burn with an icy fire!

Haha, yes. Imagine its wretched screams.
Thunderbolt steers all things.

Image

I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
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