Becoming a rune dancing priestess

For intuitive and critical discussions, from spirituality to theological doctrines. Fair warning: because the subject matter is personal, moderation is strict.

Moderator: Dan~

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:23 pm

Ierrellus wrote:
turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:I still cannot see how a type of coping done in the infancy of the human race can be valid now in our adolescence. (The race has not yet approached maturity.) Shouldn't we move on and put away childish things?


I don't think this is "childish things"...after church yesterday I find the resurrection of jesus to be a big problem for me...

Resurrection of Jesus has nothing to do with runic (sympathetic) magic. It has to do with aspiring that what we see in the flesh is not the whole picture of reality. Jesus has more to do with hope than with magic. The resurrection could also be of your own renewal.


I am sorry ier....you cant have it both ways...the majority opinion in most Christian churches is actual life after death for jesus and for us..
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:25 pm

The ways are the same.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:32 pm

Ierrellus wrote:The ways are the same.

here is the problem....you say the pagan ways are childish....I say this Christian way is causing people to stay away from church....the fundies are the majority player and they insist on magical thinking...
I know you can see it both ways but when you call the pagan a child and grow up... I have a problem with those words..
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:39 pm

turtle wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:The ways are the same.

here is the problem....you say the pagan ways are childish....I say this Christian way is causing people to stay away from church....the fundies are the majority player and they insist on magical thinking...
I know you can see it both ways but when you call the pagan a child and grow up... I have a problem with those words..

You noted it well. Fundie magical thinking is immature. I think all people will be judged according to their level of spiritual maturity. There are lesser and greater in the kingdom of heaven. However, I think we have digressed somewhat from the OP.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:39 pm

"Who, by thinking, can add one cubit to his stature?"--Jesus. Sympathetic magic is an attempt to outthink the fates.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:46 pm

You noted it well. Fundie magical thinking is immature. I think all people will be judged according to their level of spiritual maturity. There are lesser and greater in the kingdom of heaven. However, I think we have digressed somewhat from the OP.[/quote]

we haven't digressed....the problem at this point is maia is not here now...
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Maia » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:27 pm

turtle wrote:You noted it well. Fundie magical thinking is immature. I think all people will be judged according to their level of spiritual maturity. There are lesser and greater in the kingdom of heaven. However, I think we have digressed somewhat from the OP.


we haven't digressed....the problem at this point is maia is not here now...[/quote]

I'm here. The thing is that magic works, so these debates about "spiritual maturity" and so on are really missing the point. They are like trying to disprove the existence of electricity by theology.
User avatar
Maia
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:22 am
Location: UK

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:06 pm

Maia wrote:
turtle wrote:You noted it well. Fundie magical thinking is immature. I think all people will be judged according to their level of spiritual maturity. There are lesser and greater in the kingdom of heaven. However, I think we have digressed somewhat from the OP.


we haven't digressed....the problem at this point is maia is not here now...


I'm here. The thing is that magic works, so these debates about "spiritual maturity" and so on are really missing the point. They are like trying to disprove the existence of electricity by theology.[/quote]

maia--I am sorry... I did not write about fundie magical thinking....I am with you and not arguing about what you say...it seems to work for you...it is not immature....many so-called mature people can make awful mistakes...we are all immature...we have no idea about the big questions.....can you explain more about your beliefs...some peop[le have trouble just listening to other views...what about the electricity...how does it work...I want to know
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Maia » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:21 pm

turtle wrote:
Maia wrote:
turtle wrote:You noted it well. Fundie magical thinking is immature. I think all people will be judged according to their level of spiritual maturity. There are lesser and greater in the kingdom of heaven. However, I think we have digressed somewhat from the OP.


we haven't digressed....the problem at this point is maia is not here now...


I'm here. The thing is that magic works, so these debates about "spiritual maturity" and so on are really missing the point. They are like trying to disprove the existence of electricity by theology.


maia--I am sorry... I did not write about fundie magical thinking....I am with you and not arguing about what you say...it seems to work for you...it is not immature....many so-called mature people can make awful mistakes...we are all immature...we have no idea about the big questions.....can you explain more about your beliefs...some peop[le have trouble just listening to other views...what about the electricity...how does it work...I want to know[/quote]

It's a very big subject, too big to do it justice in a single post. I started a thread on it over a year ago, which became quite long.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=181696
User avatar
Maia
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:22 am
Location: UK

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:33 pm

maia----what are the problems with paganism as you see it...I can see a lot of problems with theism and atheism...
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Maia » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:54 pm

turtle wrote:maia----what are the problems with paganism as you see it...I can see a lot of problems with theism and atheism...


The main problem, I would say, is its factionalism. Its diversity is both its strength and a cause of weakness. Yet for all their arguments and disputes, Pagans always work together and never seek to slaughter each other as factions of monotheists do, with differences so minor as to appear non-existent to outsiders.
User avatar
Maia
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:22 am
Location: UK

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:01 pm

Maia wrote:
turtle wrote:maia----what are the problems with paganism as you see it...I can see a lot of problems with theism and atheism...


The main problem, I would say, is its factionalism. Its diversity is both its strength and a cause of weakness. Yet for all their arguments and disputes, Pagans always work together and never seek to slaughter each other as factions of monotheists do, with differences so minor as to appear non-existent to outsiders.


that sounds pretty good...are they like quakers...no war
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Maia » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:05 pm

turtle wrote:
Maia wrote:
turtle wrote:maia----what are the problems with paganism as you see it...I can see a lot of problems with theism and atheism...


The main problem, I would say, is its factionalism. Its diversity is both its strength and a cause of weakness. Yet for all their arguments and disputes, Pagans always work together and never seek to slaughter each other as factions of monotheists do, with differences so minor as to appear non-existent to outsiders.


that sounds pretty good...are they like quakers...no war


Not really. Some Pagans are pacifists, others will fight for what they believe to be right.
User avatar
Maia
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:22 am
Location: UK

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:08 pm

turtle wrote
that sounds pretty good...are they like quakers...no war[/quote]

maia wrote
Not really. Some Pagans are pacifists, others will fight for what they believe to be right.[/quote]

turtle wrote
thanks maia....
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:09 pm

"Let me not to the marriage of true minds admit impediment."--WS
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:09 pm

Apologies if I seem disrespectful. I simply don't see how sympathetic magic, the religion of our distant ancestors, speaks to us today. I do see it in the practices of fundy, Christian churches. In that respect it is religion or infant spirituality. Wicca has given us no prophets such as Jesus, Buddha, Confucius. And. sympathetic magic smacks of self-centered beliefs. It says little of caritas or agape.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Moreno » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:50 am

Ierrellus wrote:Apologies if I seem disrespectful. I simply don't see how sympathetic magic, the religion of our distant ancestors, speaks to us today. I do see it in the practices of fundy, Christian churches. In that respect it is religion or infant spirituality. Wicca has given us no prophets such as Jesus, Buddha, Confucius. And. sympathetic magic smacks of self-centered beliefs. It says little of caritas or agape.
Sympathetic magic never Went away, but it was certainly suppressed and anything that smacked of paganism was supressed, until recently in horrible violent ways, now mainly through shaming and social violence. But it was Always present even in Europé, though people had to be careful. Wicca has not had a prophet, sure. Though wicca is a fairly recent reformulation of various pagan ideas and followed by small Groups in predominantly Christian areas. And since proselytizing and saving people is not at all like in Christianity, it is hard to see how they will become huge. But here's the thing, paganism does not sit well with modern empires - modern meaning going back a thousand years or so. It is more tribal and also tend to be connected to specific pieces of land and nothing as huge as say, France. Jesus' religion fit very well with the Powers that be. He basically said that the secular Powers, even if they are jerks, should not be challenged, since the real Kingdom is in heaven. That is not the way pagans would view it. Confucious was not a prophet. The Buddha also developed a system that generally fit well with secular Power and the state and despots, etc. The popularity of a prophet does not mean that that prophet is better than Another one. Or Adam Smith and Bill Gates would be the greatest prophets. And the religions that came out of Abrahamic prophets have made it hell on Earth for anyone who did not Believe as they did.
User avatar
Moreno
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10305
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:46 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby turtle » Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:43 pm

Moreno wrote:
Ierrellus wrote:Apologies if I seem disrespectful. I simply don't see how sympathetic magic, the religion of our distant ancestors, speaks to us today. I do see it in the practices of fundy, Christian churches. In that respect it is religion or infant spirituality. Wicca has given us no prophets such as Jesus, Buddha, Confucius. And. sympathetic magic smacks of self-centered beliefs. It says little of caritas or agape.
Sympathetic magic never Went away, but it was certainly suppressed and anything that smacked of paganism was supressed, until recently in horrible violent ways, now mainly through shaming and social violence. But it was Always present even in Europé, though people had to be careful. Wicca has not had a prophet, sure. Though wicca is a fairly recent reformulation of various pagan ideas and followed by small Groups in predominantly Christian areas. And since proselytizing and saving people is not at all like in Christianity, it is hard to see how they will become huge. But here's the thing, paganism does not sit well with modern empires - modern meaning going back a thousand years or so. It is more tribal and also tend to be connected to specific pieces of land and nothing as huge as say, France. Jesus' religion fit very well with the Powers that be. He basically said that the secular Powers, even if they are jerks, should not be challenged, since the real Kingdom is in heaven. That is not the way pagans would view it. Confucious was not a prophet. The Buddha also developed a system that generally fit well with secular Power and the state and despots, etc. The popularity of a prophet does not mean that that prophet is better than Another one. Or Adam Smith and Bill Gates would be the greatest prophets. And the religions that came out of Abrahamic prophets have made it hell on Earth for anyone who did not Believe as they did.


some good ideas Moreno...one thing I wanted to comment on....jesus did go against some group that had power and authority...otherwise he would not have been killed...
turtle
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:18 pm

I think we all understand that by prophet I meant the voice of the major religions. And I tried to make it clear that religion is immature spirituality. It can lead to something more. So what does paganism lead to? Does it teach us how to love and respect one another? Or is it simply a reaction against the excesses of other religions?
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:18 pm

duplicate post
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Maia » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:53 pm

Ierrellus wrote:I think we all understand that by prophet I meant the voice of the major religions. And I tried to make it clear that religion is immature spirituality. It can lead to something more. So what does paganism lead to? Does it teach us how to love and respect one another? Or is it simply a reaction against the excesses of other religions?


The Pagan worldview most certainly leads to love and respect for each other. This is not handed down from on high as something you must do, however. It just comes naturally.
User avatar
Maia
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:22 am
Location: UK

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:47 pm

"I could never believe in a God that doesn't know how to dance"
- Nietzsche

Dan~ wrote:I don't think I could ever get a magic dance to work.
I'm sticking with old fashioned meditation.

I'd almost say magic isn't complete without the dimension of dance.
Thunderbolt steers all things.

Image

I've been guided somewhat by William Blake's quote: "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create". Just change 'system' for 'style'. - Bill

The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 6859
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: Thrudheim

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:39 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:"I could never believe in a God that doesn't know how to dance"
- Nietzsche

Dan~ wrote:I don't think I could ever get a magic dance to work.
I'm sticking with old fashioned meditation.

I'd almost say magic isn't complete without the dimension of dance.

Ancient Hebrews worshiped with music and dance.
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby Ierrellus » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:39 pm

duplicate post
"We must love one another or die." W.H.Auden
I admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?
From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.
Ierrellus
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 12309
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm
Location: state of evolving

Re: Becoming a rune dancing priestess

Postby James S Saint » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:55 pm

As with all magic, its practice is pointless until it isn't magic to you.
If you want to really dance, learn the real steps.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25573
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Religion and Spirituality



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users