Jesus was a Guy

[turtle]

jesus was just a guy....the important thing about the jesus story was the message...is there any value to any of the so-called message?????

[Typist]

jesus was just a guy....the important thing about the jesus story was the message...is there any value to any of the so-called message?????

"The message" implies a single message. Jesus talked about a lot of stuff. Some of it may have value for us, and some not. Anything in particular interest you?

[turtle]

jesus was just a guy....the important thing about the jesus story was the message...is there any value to any of the so-called message?????

"The message" implies a single message. Jesus talked about a lot of stuff. Some of it may have value for us, and some not. Anything in particular interest you?

thanks typist----my point here is to make the story more human and not supernatural.
i would like to discard the virgin birth and the rising from the dead things...

[Typist]

i would like to discard the virgin birth and the rising from the dead things...

Ok, gotcha. Once that's done, anything left that interests you?

[James S Saint]

The fundamental message was that the way to manage Mankind is through networked love and hope (thus the forgiveness issue).
Hope gathers
Fear scatters

The purpose of any religion is to maintain the gathering because single homosapians haven't a chance against nature and certainly not against other mischievous homosapians.

But a critical element in that message is "networking" without which no ethics will save anyone.
"Where ever two or more gather in my name, I am there."

[Arcturus Descending]

The fundamental message was that the way to manage Mankind is through networked love and hope (thus the forgiveness issue).
Hope gathers
Fear scatters

The purpose of any religion is to maintain the gathering because single homosapians haven't a chance against nature and certainly not against other mischievous homosapians.

But a critical element in that message is "networking" without which no ethics will save anyone.
"Where ever two or more gather in my name, I am there."

Networking? Gee James, you make it sound so business-like.
How about the phrase interdependent relationships?

[Arcturus Descending]

jesus was just a guy....the important thing about the jesus story was the message...is there any value to any of the so-called message?????

"The message" implies a single message. Jesus talked about a lot of stuff. Some of it may have value for us, and some not. Anything in particular interest you?

thanks typist----my point here is to make the story more human and not supernatural.
i would like to discard the virgin birth and the rising from the dead things...

If you're to do that though, little reptile, you might as well use any other number of human beings as an example who were christ-like. Take away the virgin birth or at least the resurrection, and christ is made as human as most of us - well, perhaps more fully human than the rest of us. But perhaps more insane being that he thought he was divine and allowed himself to die on a cross to save us.
His message was about love, compassion, truth, solidarity, struggle, detachment, trust, finding joy in the simple as in becoming as little children in order to see and find joy in a world of wonder....ad continuum.

[James S Saint]

How about the phrase interdependent relationships?

..and you make it sound so intellectual.
Good thing we aren't their proselytizers, huh.

[Typist]

The fundamental message was that the way to manage Mankind is through networked love and hope (thus the forgiveness issue).

I would argue that this doesn't explain the personal nature of the relationship with Jesus that characterizes the religion.

Imho, the bottom line is that the individual doesn't really care about the best way to manage mankind. That's for philosophers, not real people.

The individual cares about the individual. Thus, we might reason that any religion that survives a long time and includes billions of people has done a good job of addressing that individual concern first and foremost.

"What's in it for me?" is always the bottom line question.

[James S Saint]

The fundamental message was that the way to manage Mankind is through networked love and hope (thus the forgiveness issue).

I would argue that this doesn't explain the personal nature of the relationship with Jesus that characterizes the religion.

Imho, the bottom line is that the individual doesn't really care about the best way to manage mankind.

And I suppose that you think he was merely preaching to the little guys, totally unaware of what the kings and prophets would deduce as they watched?

"What's in it for me?" is always the bottom line question.

That was his point to the Kings as well.
"If you want your kingdom to be eternal, do it this way..."

[Typist]

..and you make it sound so intellectual. Good thing we aren't their proselytizers, huh.

And so Jesus cameth down from upon the mountain, and said unto the multitude...

"After reviewing a logical analysis of competing systems for most beneficially managing the interaction of individuals within the social infrastructure, and taking in to account the requirements of social cooperation in regards to the adaptive processes of mutual survival in competition with both nature and other social systems, the Corporate Executive Officer and myself have concluded that high levels of symbiotic cooperation amongst the parties to the contract would lead most efficiently to the stated goals of said project. Amen."

[Typist]

"If you want your kingdom to be eternal, do it this way..."

In a private message emailed directly to the World Philosophers Association just before his untimely death and timeless undeath, Jesus typed...

If you guys want your words to be as eternal as mine, you'd better dump the silly fancy talk.

[felix dakat]

i would like to discard the virgin birth and the rising from the dead things...

Ok, gotcha. Once that's done, anything left that interests you?

Good question Typist. How many denominations are there each with their own take on Jesus' message, to say nothing of the readings of theologians, historians, academics, and the rest of us? According to some, if you discard the miraculous, there is nothing special about the "guy." While I am not among those, I do think that the miraculous claims have helped keep Jesus in the limelight through the centuries. What do you say, turtle?

[phyllo]

Good question Typist. How many denominations are there each with their own take on Jesus' message, to say nothing of the readings of theologians, historians, academics, and the rest of us? According to some, if you discard the miraculous, there is nothing special about the "guy." While I am not among those, I do think that the miraculous claims have helped keep Jesus in the limelight through the centuries.

The ancient world was full of magicians who performed miracles. Virgin births and births resulting from intercourse between women and gods was common.
We don't worship most of these people and don't have religions based on them. Probably, there was something special about Jesus and the combination of his life and his message.

[Typist]

The ancient world was full of magicians who performed miracles. Virgin births and births resulting from intercourse between women and gods was common. We don't worship most of these people and don't have religions based on them. Probably, there was something special about Jesus and the combination of his life and his message.

Interesting point phyllo. Perhaps it was a perfect storm of reinforcing factors. A highly charismatic individual with the right message in the right place at the right time etc.

Charisma is a powerful thing. I went to the same high school as the Allman Brothers, and have been infected with the power of Duane Allman mythology my whole life. And he was just a 23 year old guitar player. A good one yes, but so were literally a million others.

A collector I know here in town recently came in to possession of the guitar Allman used to record some of his most well known albums. To the Duane cult, the guitar is like a holy relic. I felt the pull of this relic myself. Truly I did. The collector said I could come over and play Duane's guitar if I wanted, but I demured. I am not worthy!! Silly, but true.

[felix dakat]

Good question Typist. How many denominations are there each with their own take on Jesus' message, to say nothing of the readings of theologians, historians, academics, and the rest of us? According to some, if you discard the miraculous, there is nothing special about the "guy." While I am not among those, I do think that the miraculous claims have helped keep Jesus in the limelight through the centuries.

The ancient world was full of magicians who performed miracles. Virgin births and births resulting from intercourse between women and gods was common.
We don't worship most of these people and don't have religions based on them. Probably, there was something special about Jesus and the combination of his life and his message.

OK right. Did any of them resurrect from the dead? Perhaps it is the quality and salvific function of Jesus' miracles that sets him apart.

[Arcturus Descending]

..and you make it sound so intellectual. Good thing we aren't their proselytizers, huh.

And so Jesus cameth down from upon the mountain, and said unto the multitude...

"After reviewing a logical analysis of competing systems for most beneficially managing the interaction of individuals within the social infrastructure, and taking in to account the requirements of social cooperation in regards to the adaptive processes of mutual survival in competition with both nature and other social systems, the Corporate Executive Officer and myself have concluded that high levels of symbiotic cooperation amongst the parties to the contract would lead most efficiently to the stated goals of said project. Amen."

[Arcturus Descending]

oops and moot

[jabs]

jesus was just a guy....the important thing about the jesus story was the message...is there any value to any of the so-called message?????

He was some very special guy. For a person never to have put anything in writing and have had the influence he has had. That is some very special achievement.

[turtle]

Good question Typist. How many denominations are there each with their own take on Jesus' message, to say nothing of the readings of theologians, historians, academics, and the rest of us? According to some, if you discard the miraculous, there is nothing special about the "guy." While I am not among those, I do think that the miraculous claims have helped keep Jesus in the limelight through the centuries.

The ancient world was full of magicians who performed miracles. Virgin births and births resulting from intercourse between women and gods was common.
We don't worship most of these people and don't have religions based on them. Probably, there was something special about Jesus and the combination of his life and his message.

OK right. Did any of them resurrect from the dead? Perhaps it is the quality and salvific function of Jesus' miracles that sets him apart.

felix---what are you saying specifically....what is this word salvific???

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

"Where ever two or more gather in my name, I am there."

Does it count if we gather on the internet, or do we have to share a common geography?

[James S Saint]

"Where ever two or more gather in my name, I am there."

Does it count if we gather on the internet, or do we have to share a common geography?

I think the point is that they are gathered in spirit (having the same spirit, "in my name") and that they are affecting each other. The degree of mutual affect would determined the degree that he was there.

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

"Where ever two or more gather in my name, I am there."

Does it count if we gather on the internet, or do we have to share a common geography?

I think the point is that they are gathered in spirit (having the same spirit, "in my name") and that they are affecting each other. The degree of mutual affect would determined the degree that he was there.

So if Jesus was just a guy, as turtle claims, how is that he is there when 2 or 3 gather together? What's there?

[turtle]

listen ------all of those bible people were human beings.....then it makes some sense...get real...

[melonkali]

Good question Typist. How many denominations are there each with their own take on Jesus' message, to say nothing of the readings of theologians, historians, academics, and the rest of us? According to some, if you discard the miraculous, there is nothing special about the "guy." While I am not among those, I do think that the miraculous claims have helped keep Jesus in the limelight through the centuries.

The ancient world was full of magicians who performed miracles. Virgin births and births resulting from intercourse between women and gods was common.
We don't worship most of these people and don't have religions based on them. Probably, there was something special about Jesus and the combination of his life and his message.

There was, around the 1st century AD, a Hasidim movement in Galilee (not to be confused with the later medieval Hasidim movement) which included miracle workers and healers, such as Hanina Ben Dosa and Honi the Circle Maker (what a character he was!) Also associated were a few "rogue" members of the Jewish hierarchy, including Sanhedrin member Gamaliel the Elder (who has been canonized as a Catholic saint.) Galilee was a "thorn in the side" of orthodox Judaism at that time. Perhaps Jesus was one very charismatic leader, or perhaps the Biblical account combines stories of more than one of these Hasidim? In any event, the Hasidim were known as exceptionally righteous men, merciful, benevolent and selfless, and most of them materially poor due to their generous nature. Jesus seems to fit the picture,