Help me understand why I'm an atheist.

[white_daemon]

This is the honest truth about my religious past. I've always wondered what made me decide to be an atheist and hopefully the people on this website can help me. Input from anyone is welcome and encouraged.

I was raised Christian (non-denominational). I was only a practicing Christian between the ages of 10 and 16; before that my family did not go to church. Though I was a fairly active member of the youth group at my church, I always struggled with the fact that becoming a christian was a bit of a change for me. I had a hard time keeping the morals that my parents and my church tried to instill in me. Then, at age 15, I learned about evolution (my church took a staunch new-earth creationist position). Once I understood how evolution works, why it is so widely accepted within the scientific community, etc., I realized how much my church unfairly demonized evolution. Thus the seeds of inquiry seemed to be sown within my mind. The more I questioned, and the more I learned, the less I was able to believe. Eventually, at age 16, I stopped praying altogether.

What vexes me is the fact that at age 16 I also experienced my first break-up. I was an emotionally distraught teenager when I lost my faith. Later, as I matured (and continued to question things, including atheism itself) I wondered if the reason I was an atheist was because of my emotional turmoil when I lost my faith. One of my first and greatest objections to Christianity was the contradiction between evil and suffering and the existence of an all-powerful, benevolent God. And my own suffering at the time acted as a catalyst.

SO: anyone else have similar stories, and can help me understand how I got to where I am a little better?

[omar]

First of all it is ultimately you who must answer the question. We can only speculate, trying to relate our life experiences to the mini autobiography you've given here.
There are of course great challenges to anyone's faith. First in my list is that people inherit a religion. They are told what they are, what they shall believe and often crush the inquisitive tendencies we are born with. What ends up happening is that people eventually have to complete a circuit. It becomes, as you've experienced, necessary, out of honesty, to abandon what we have always been told to believe. But eventually one may come on his own strength to the conclusion that maybe there was something of value, something hidden, that gives this human existence something that you need, thus completing the circuit.
Another possibility is that your youth played a part as well as your break up. But be it because of the one or the others or a combination of all three, perhaps you should see it as an opportunity afforded to you to do some homework and take responsibility for what you shall believe if at all. And I don't mean that you devote your energies to resolve this or that objecting so that you might return to the fold, for that is not the ultimate purpose, but to make it your life to question where you must and even live with that because in the question we encounter the real, for we are fallible and finite and because of that we need ideas to defend ourselves from that unwelcomed reality. Those ideas that are most necessary are earned.
The problem of evil is a neighbor for every believer. It is the destroyer of patented platitudes. But it is often not faith that is destroyed but our capacity to relate to reality as a Thou. You will see though that there is faith after faith, but it is an actual faith that swells from within that won't be denied. It rest on doubts. It remains uncomfortable. But if it happens to you be glad because the most real relationships you will have in your life are precisely those that retain a bit of mystery and give you pause. We are incomplete beings and should concede doubts about ourselves and others. That is honesty for me.

Good luck

[turtle]

you mentioned a breakup at age 16...can you say more about that???

[white_daemon]

First of all it is ultimately you who must answer the question. We can only speculate, trying to relate our life experiences to the mini autobiography you've given here.
There are of course great challenges to anyone's faith. First in my list is that people inherit a religion. They are told what they are, what they shall believe and often crush the inquisitive tendencies we are born with. What ends up happening is that people eventually have to complete a circuit. It becomes, as you've experienced, necessary, out of honesty, to abandon what we have always been told to believe. But eventually one may come on his own strength to the conclusion that maybe there was something of value, something hidden, that gives this human existence something that you need, thus completing the circuit.
Another possibility is that your youth played a part as well as your break up. But be it because of the one or the others or a combination of all three, perhaps you should see it as an opportunity afforded to you to do some homework and take responsibility for what you shall believe if at all. And I don't mean that you devote your energies to resolve this or that objecting so that you might return to the fold, for that is not the ultimate purpose, but to make it your life to question where you must and even live with that because in the question we encounter the real, for we are fallible and finite and because of that we need ideas to defend ourselves from that unwelcomed reality. Those ideas that are most necessary are earned.
The problem of evil is a neighbor for every believer. It is the destroyer of patented platitudes. But it is often not faith that is destroyed but our capacity to relate to reality as a Thou. You will see though that there is faith after faith, but it is an actual faith that swells from within that won't be denied. It rest on doubts. It remains uncomfortable. But if it happens to you be glad because the most real relationships you will have in your life are precisely those that retain a bit of mystery and give you pause. We are incomplete beings and should concede doubts about ourselves and others. That is honesty for me.

Good luck

Thanks. What I had always figured was that this time in my life provided the opportunity for me to want to rebel, to leave what I had been told and raised to do behind and find out what I really wanted. But doubts as to whether the path I took was a well-thought-out one have plagued me once I really grew up and got over some of those qualities that pushed me towards being an atheist. And by that time, I had too much love for being what I was to go back. Perhaps you're right, and questioning things is something in my nature that can't be put down by any force I may encounter in my life.

[Selah7+]

This is the honest truth about my religious past. I've always wondered what made me decide to be an atheist and hopefully the people on this website can help me. Input from anyone is welcome and encouraged.

I was raised Christian (non-denominational). I was only a practicing Christian between the ages of 10 and 16; before that my family did not go to church. Though I was a fairly active member of the youth group at my church, I always struggled with the fact that becoming a christian was a bit of a change for me. I had a hard time keeping the morals that my parents and my church tried to instill in me. Then, at age 15, I learned about evolution (my church took a staunch new-earth creationist position). Once I understood how evolution works, why it is so widely accepted within the scientific community, etc., I realized how much my church unfairly demonized evolution. Thus the seeds of inquiry seemed to be sown within my mind. The more I questioned, and the more I learned, the less I was able to believe. Eventually, at age 16, I stopped praying altogether.

What vexes me is the fact that at age 16 I also experienced my first break-up. I was an emotionally distraught teenager when I lost my faith. Later, as I matured (and continued to question things, including atheism itself) I wondered if the reason I was an atheist was because of my emotional turmoil when I lost my faith. One of my first and greatest objections to Christianity was the contradiction between evil and suffering and the existence of an all-powerful, benevolent God. And my own suffering at the time acted as a catalyst.

SO: anyone else have similar stories, and can help me understand how I got to where I am a little better?

White: All is not lost. I am assuming you are much older than 16 now and you are starting to question what we all do as we grow up and mature. Losing a first love is tragic, but we all experience it, well almost all of us. It is part of life and a learning experience. I grew up in a Roman Catholic home - went through all the sacraments, etc until I also was 15 years old. I went to mass every Sunday [and confession on Saturday]. Although I believed in God, I really didn't know Him. I would think in my mind, "Why am I sitting here week after week, hearing the same thing and being bored? Why don't I want to be here if I am supposed to want to be worshipping God?" That distrubed me, but that was the way it was for me, even at such a young age. I stopped attending church and went on my merry way. Not so merry now looking back. We only get one chance to do things right, and in our naive minds, we just go along with the crowd considering it the norm. When we go through life on our own, without God, we make lots of mistakes and sometimes have regrets. However, God is good and will present Himself to every one of us at some point in time in our life so that we can make the most important decision we will ever make. Many years later, I attended a church [a Bible Church-nondenominational] in the neighborhood that I just moved into. I thought that there are so many "religions", how can they all be right? There can only be one right answer for One God. It didn't make sense to me. So, I went to this church not really expecting anything different, but hoping that it would be. I heard the Gospel preached clearly for the first time. I believe that you did, too, when your parents took you to church with them. After the service, one of the people came to meet me and asked me, "If you could know for sure that you would go to heaven when you die, wouldn't you want to know?" Of course, who wouldn't want to know, but of course, I was skeptical because from my background all I could do was hope for the best. If maybe I would make it, but I didn't think anyone could know for sure. So I said, "Yes, but how can I know?" I prayed with this person and I knew immediately that my life was going to be different! I was so excited because I knew that "This is It!" What I was looking for I found because God knew I was seeking to know the Truth, but I didn't know what that was. For you as a young person, it is understandable to be confused by what you think is "wisdom". You were confused because you did not have the experience or the maturity, or the time to grow spiritually, to be strong enough to understand the workings of worldly matters. You are obviously seeking answers right now and that's a good thing. Don't delay, get yourself into the Bible and take your time reading the Gospel of John first. Pray and ask God to forgive you for your sins and trust Jesus Christ as your Savior. Talk to him and tell him you want to understand and He will show you...after, all, He already knows. John 3:3 = "Truly I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:16 = "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life, For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him." Romans 10:9-10 = "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." I am praying for you, friend.

[FilmSnob]

Maybe you just grew up.

[Stoic Guardian]

Boo Pezer Boo.

Just because you read some Nietzche...

I hear this a lot.

I believe in God(s), though I never went to church.

I hear a lot of people who are atheists on here say they used to be christians or were raised christians.

[FilmSnob]

I hear a lot of people who are atheists on here say they used to be christians or were raised christians.

We're European descendents, aren't we?

Fine, fine, atheism isn't logical. Just like anarchism. They are still imgaes from a very important movie.

[Stoic Guardian]

Hmm? I'm not saying it's not logical, what movie are you talking about.

[FilmSnob]

Hmm? I'm not saying it's not logical, what movie are you talking about.

The movie of getting rid of the bullshit. Christianity is bullshit, surely you see that. Despite the fuzzy-heartedness of it, it is bullshit.

[I_AM_US]

Just as you I grew up in a non-denominational Christian household. As it was suggested earlier I think a person's religious beliefs are inherited. I also wondered why I was completely bored with church. Eventually I stopped going and as I matured started looking into other religions for the answers Christianity didn't seem to answer. I always felt (even as a young adult) that most religions preached the same basic principles: Don't lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc... I also wondered why, if Christianity was the one "true religion", was there different factions within it such as Baptist, Catholic, Protestant, etc... Was it not enough to be Christian but also a specific type of Christian? Was everyone else doomed to burn eternally if they chose the wrong path? If so there are so many more people burning in hell than there are people rejoicing blissfully in heaven. Why would any god create so many people only to have a majority of them end up suffering forever? Why would your initial thinking be so negative when, as a god, you could make everything perfect right off the bat? A Christian will always say "Nobody knows the mind of God, therefore man can not always explain his actions". To me that always meant "I don't know, just accept what I say without question". I'm not the type to do that so I explored other options. At this stage of my life (34 years-old, 4 kids) I believe if you act morally and don't intentionally deceive or cheat or lie, kill, whatever, you'll be ok. I believe in God and that there is a life after this one, but I think everyone gets to the same end eventually, it just takes some people longer than others. Eventually we all end up in the same place because we all originated from the same place (God). We are all God, just in different forms. God created existence and instead of sitting back and observing what was created God wanted to experience "his" own creation first-hand and broke himself up into an almost infinite amount of pieces (humans, animals, plants, air, etc...) in order to experience his own creation from every possible angle. Eventually we as "individuals" cultivate our own consciousness up to a level more and more advanced until we eventually return to the Source which is God. That's all there is, is God. Nothing exists outside of God (In my belief). Christianity puts a limitation on things, as does any other religion. Basically I would say there is a God and he would want you to do good in your life and believe there is something after this life. Other than that... do ya thang. You might not get it right this time but nobody's perfect. You'll get to where we're all going eventually.

[white_daemon]

White: All is not lost. I am assuming you are much older than 16 now and you are starting to question what we all do as we grow up and mature. Losing a first love is tragic, but we all experience it, well almost all of us. It is part of life and a learning experience. I grew up in a Roman Catholic home - went through all the sacraments, etc until I also was 15 years old. I went to mass every Sunday [and confession on Saturday]. Although I believed in God, I really didn't know Him. I would think in my mind, "Why am I sitting here week after week, hearing the same thing and being bored? Why don't I want to be here if I am supposed to want to be worshipping God?" That distrubed me, but that was the way it was for me, even at such a young age. I stopped attending church and went on my merry way. Not so merry now looking back. We only get one chance to do things right, and in our naive minds, we just go along with the crowd considering it the norm. When we go through life on our own, without God, we make lots of mistakes and sometimes have regrets. However, God is good and will present Himself to every one of us at some point in time in our life so that we can make the most important decision we will ever make. Many years later, I attended a church [a Bible Church-nondenominational] in the neighborhood that I just moved into. I thought that there are so many "religions", how can they all be right? There can only be one right answer for One God. It didn't make sense to me. So, I went to this church not really expecting anything different, but hoping that it would be. I heard the Gospel preached clearly for the first time. I believe that you did, too, when your parents took you to church with them. After the service, one of the people came to meet me and asked me, "If you could know for sure that you would go to heaven when you die, wouldn't you want to know?" Of course, who wouldn't want to know, but of course, I was skeptical because from my background all I could do was hope for the best. If maybe I would make it, but I didn't think anyone could know for sure. So I said, "Yes, but how can I know?" I prayed with this person and I knew immediately that my life was going to be different! I was so excited because I knew that "This is It!" What I was looking for I found because God knew I was seeking to know the Truth, but I didn't know what that was. For you as a young person, it is understandable to be confused by what you think is "wisdom". You were confused because you did not have the experience or the maturity, or the time to grow spiritually, to be strong enough to understand the workings of worldly matters. You are obviously seeking answers right now and that's a good thing. Don't delay, get yourself into the Bible and take your time reading the Gospel of John first. Pray and ask God to forgive you for your sins and trust Jesus Christ as your Savior. Talk to him and tell him you want to understand and He will show you...after, all, He already knows. John 3:3 = "Truly I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:16 = "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life, For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him." Romans 10:9-10 = "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." I am praying for you, friend.

For me and what I believe, intuition is no different from ignorance. If you can't explain why you know something, then you don't really know it. True, wisdom comes with age. But so does the hardening of one's beliefs to the point of irrationality.

I have read the Bible, and I cannot accept it as the truth. God's actions and motivations are simply too inconsistent and contradictory throughout the Bible for it to be anything other than a mutated nationalistic religion, as far as I am concerned. I'm not an atheist because I hate the idea of God, I simply ask too many questions to stay in one place for long.

[omar]

For me and what I believe, intuition is no different from ignorance. If you can't explain why you know something, then you don't really know it. True, wisdom comes with age. But so does the hardening of one's beliefs to the point of irrationality.

I have read the Bible, and I cannot accept it as the truth. God's actions and motivations are simply too inconsistent and contradictory throughout the Bible for it to be anything other than a mutated nationalistic religion, as far as I am concerned. I'm not an atheist because I hate the idea of God, I simply ask too many questions to stay in one place for long.

I disagree with your opinion of intuition. Sometimes we know with more certainty that which we cannot explain. Explanations are often rationalizations- pegging some rational disguise to a naked irrationality.
But in the end every rational system, construct, rest in some way above an irrational foundation, an unprovable...what else? Intuition.

[Typist]

I'm not an atheist because I hate the idea of God, I simply ask too many questions to stay in one place for long.

Asking lots of questions can be a great strategy, especially if you take it as far as you can. By that I mean, why stop with questioning theism? You can ask a lot of inconvenient questions of atheism too. You can subject atheism to the very same rigorous analysis you understandably apply to theism.

You've already analyzed your way out of theism. If you wish, you can use the very same procedures to analyze your way out of atheism. And then you'll be left with nothing. Now what?

At that point, you may decide to forget the whole thing and turn your attention to other matters. Surely everybody is entitled to make this choice.

Or, if you find that your interest survives the death of both theism and atheism, this could be the point where the question becomes even more interesting.

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

Or, if you find that your interest survives the death of both theism and atheism, this could be the point where the question becomes even more interesting.

Great post Typist.

Surviving the death of both theism and atheism means you shouldn't have wasted time on both or either of them in the first place.

That more peace of mind, and less cognitive dissonance, would be had, perchance, with no involvement with either of them.

[Dan~]

I think all you can do as a human being is try.
We're so tiny and short lived compared to the vast power and age of the universe.
How can we honestly expect ourselves to understand the creator of reality if we can't even understand reality fully?
I'm saying this under the assumption that reality's source is more complex than reality. And thus harder to understand.
I'm not saying reality has a source, though.

If I designed a reality, i would put air bags in it. So that when an earthquake happened, nobody would get thrashed.

[Typist]

Surviving the death of both theism and atheism means you shouldn't have wasted time on both or either of them in the first place. That more peace of mind, and less cognitive dissonance, would be had, perchance, with no involvement with either of them.

Surely many people feel this way. Some people drop the whole subject, and some never pick it up in the first place.

I'm not sure the time is wasted. If one has a sincere interest in these topics, then why not pursue that interest to where ever it may lead? How else would we discover the destination that's right for us?

[V-OutOfTheWilderness]

Surviving the death of both theism and atheism means you shouldn't have wasted time on both or either of them in the first place. That more peace of mind, and less cognitive dissonance, would be had, perchance, with no involvement with either of them.

Surely many people feel this way. Some people drop the whole subject, and some never pick it up in the first place.

I'm not sure the time is wasted. If one has a sincere interest in these topics, then why not pursue that interest to where ever it may lead? How else would we discover the destination that's right for us?

Plus, learning about theism and atheism is a good hobby ...

[Arcturus Descending]

white_demaen

For me and what I believe, intuition is no different from ignorance. If you can't explain why you know something, then you don't really know it.

Ignorance as in never having learned something or ignorance as in having learned it, but still not knowing it (better known as stupdity)?
Intuition I think is sort of a middle ground between the above two. Its an experience of sensation and perception without being able to interpret or translate it.

There is a deeper knowing that may come to us through intuition. Anyone can use words to define or prove something but it doesn't necessarily make it real.

True, wisdom comes with age. But so does the hardening of one's beliefs to the point of irrationality.

Wisdom does not necessarily come with age. Some children have more wisdom than do elderly people. Age is not a prerequisite of wisdom - self-awareness, consciousness and following through on that IS.

The hardening of one's beliefs comes from fear of letting go of what might be illusion and a lack of the desire to know the whole truth - fear of taking that quantum leap into the darkness.

I have read the Bible, and I cannot accept it as the truth.

You don't have to - but there is historical truth in it.
There is also a 'truth' of self (or ongoing self knowledge) which might come to you through the stories of the people in the bible which might make it come alive to you. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

God's actions and motivations are simply too inconsistent and contradictory throughout the Bible for it to be anything other than a mutated nationalistic religion, as far as I am concerned.

I also personally don't feel they are a god's actions. They are a translation or an interpretation of what people perceive as such...and that begins and ends in the human psyche through our relationship with others and the world.

I'm not an atheist because I hate the idea of God, I simply ask too many questions to stay in one place for long

.
If you're asking questions, you're not an atheist, you're an agnostic like myself. If you are an atheist, your belief is just as hard as the believers.

[Trajicomic]

This is the honest truth about my religious past. I've always wondered what made me decide to be an atheist and hopefully the people on this website can help me. Input from anyone is welcome and encouraged.

I was raised Christian (non-denominational). I was only a practicing Christian between the ages of 10 and 16; before that my family did not go to church. Though I was a fairly active member of the youth group at my church, I always struggled with the fact that becoming a christian was a bit of a change for me. I had a hard time keeping the morals that my parents and my church tried to instill in me. Then, at age 15, I learned about evolution (my church took a staunch new-earth creationist position). Once I understood how evolution works, why it is so widely accepted within the scientific community, etc., I realized how much my church unfairly demonized evolution. Thus the seeds of inquiry seemed to be sown within my mind. The more I questioned, and the more I learned, the less I was able to believe. Eventually, at age 16, I stopped praying altogether.

What vexes me is the fact that at age 16 I also experienced my first break-up. I was an emotionally distraught teenager when I lost my faith. Later, as I matured (and continued to question things, including atheism itself) I wondered if the reason I was an atheist was because of my emotional turmoil when I lost my faith. One of my first and greatest objections to Christianity was the contradiction between evil and suffering and the existence of an all-powerful, benevolent God. And my own suffering at the time acted as a catalyst.

SO: anyone else have similar stories, and can help me understand how I got to where I am a little better?

You have lost faith in God.

Or, God has lost faith in you.

Take your pick, choose your destiny.

[Arcturus Descending]

tragicomic

You have lost faith in God.

Or, God has lost faith in you.

Take your pick, choose your destiny.

Now that is the beginning of some very interesting possibilities.
Don't destroy that by choosing your destiny - be more creative - allow it to simply flow out of you when it has reached its awareness. We don't choose our destinies - we grow into them.

[Selah7+]

tragicomic

You have lost faith in God.

Or, God has lost faith in you.

Take your pick, choose your destiny.

Now that is the beginning of some very interesting possibilities.
Don't destroy that by choosing your destiny - be more creative - allow it to simply flow out of you when it has reached its awareness. We don't choose our destinies - we grow into them.

Arc, God does not place "faith" in man; man places "faith" in God. That is man's duty to be obedient to God, trust Him for salvation, and then obtain faith. This is a gift of God to those who believe. Unless you believe, you have no understanding. When you say, "you choose your destiny when you reach its awareness", do you mean, when you realize that God is real and now you have to decide what to do with Him?

[Arcturus Descending]

Selah7 wrote:

Arc, God does not place "faith" in man; man places "faith" in God.

Well, if there is Something and man places faith in that Something, wouldn't you say that there is the possibility that that Something arranged for Man to have some way[s] to come to faith albeit it is Man's choice to accept it or not.

That is man's duty to be obedient to God, trust Him for salvation, and then obtain faith.

I'm sort of a free-will kind of person, Selah. Some of us trust in a god, with or without blind faith, some of us trust in something else or in self. If there is a god, for me, it all comes down to the same thing. We just use different words to describe the same thing. As long as we have faith and trust in something which creates wholeness within us and allows us to see life as it IS, well, at least for me, the Something which I would 'choose' to intuit would be okay with that.

This is a gift of God to those who believe. Unless you believe, you have no understanding.

On the other side of that coin, Selah, there are many who 'believe' but do not understand. Their belief stops before understanding. And who is to say that your understanding has more reality within it than one who chooses not to 'believe' --- in a god that is? I see myself as having received many gifts in my life - they surround me. Must I 'believe' in a god before I see them or am grateful for them?

When you say, "you choose your destiny when you reach its awareness", do you mean, when you realize that God is real and now you have to decide what to do with Him?

, no I didn't mean that all. What to do with Him? So, in this case, god becomes the puppet and we the puppeteers? Well, that is certainly the case with many.

Real is a good word to use here though. And if God is the name for that in your life, then that's it for you.

Tragicomic said: You have lost faith in God. Or, God has lost faith in you. Take your pick, choose your destiny.

Paul Tillich said that "The courage to be is rooted in the God who appears when God has disappeared in the anxiety of doubt." All I meant was that at that point in time, it is a good thing to surrender, let go and just allow what will happen to happen. Let it ferment and brew. Whatever realization eventually comes out of it is and where that leads one, is their destiny. It is a becoming of sorts.
God is just another name for a whole universe of things and we have the right to see and to choose whichever truly works for us which we can relate to (including a relationship with a god) and which fulfills our so-called destiny and contributes to mankind's, in a positive way that is, if we choose that too.

[statiktech]

Not to undermine your position, but becoming an atheist [solely] because of Christianity is like becoming a vegetarian because you don't like the taste of a McRib.

You seem more opposed to Christianity than the concept of 'God' -- but, of course, only you would know that. My point is: don't let one poor representation of a thing sully all others. What is it you sought as a Christian? Perhaps you can continue that search under a paradigm you find more agreeable, or on your own terms altogether.

Anyway, I had a similar stint with Christianity in my younger days, but essentially came to realize I was using religion as a band-aid. I'm not sure I ever actually believed in God, as much as I wanted to. I found the real motivator in my situation wasn't so much the appeal to God, but the approbation of others who shared my "faith". In other words, I sought people with answers - and found them. However, I eventually came to find their answers increasingly contradictory and downright perverse at times. By then, even approbation and the support of a congregation couldn't contain my doubt. I wanted to believe for reasons other than merely wanting to believe, if that makes sense.

[Selah7+]

Selah7 wrote:

Arc, God does not place "faith" in man; man places "faith" in God.

Well, if there is Something and man places faith in that Something, wouldn't you say that there is the possibility that that Something arranged for Man to have some way[s] to come to faith albeit it is Man's choice to accept it or not.

You're getting warmer. That 'Something' is God, who did arrange a way for men to come to faith. Is it your choice? Perhaps, if you feel a "nudge" in your soul maybe that 'Something' is calling you.

That is man's duty to be obedient to God, trust Him for salvation, and then obtain faith.

I'm sort of a free-will kind of person, Selah. Some of us trust in a god, with or without blind faith, some of us trust in something else or in self. If there is a god, for me, it all comes down to the same thing. We just use different words to describe the same thing. As long as we have faith and trust in something which creates wholeness within us and allows us to see life as it IS, well, at least for me, the Something which I would 'choose' to intuit would be okay with that.

Words have meaning. Not all descriptions of faith come down to the same thing. Believing in God is far wiser than in one's self. Life as "it is" is not creating anything within us...such as wholeness. Life as it is apart from Christ is void of meaning, wholeness, or freedom from sin. It is empty and lonely.

This is a gift of God to those who believe. Unless you believe, you have no understanding.

On the other side of that coin, Selah, there are many who 'believe' but do not understand. Their belief stops before understanding. And who is to say that your understanding has more reality within it than one who chooses not to 'believe' --- in a god that is? I see myself as having received many gifts in my life - they surround me. Must I 'believe' in a god before I see them or am grateful for them?

Yes, Arc, that is true, but how can a man believe if he does not understand? The answer is to get understanding. The answer is found in the wisdom of God...not in yourself or in a counterfeit god. Unbelief is very real just as belief is real. It is good to be thankful, but to whom[i][/i] are you thankful? And what gifts do you refer to?

When you say, "you choose your destiny when you reach its awareness", do you mean, when you realize that God is real and now you have to decide what to do with Him?

, no I didn't mean that all. What to do with Him? So, in this case, god becomes the puppet and we the puppeteers? Well, that is certainly the case with many.

What I meant by that was this...when you come to realize that God is real, what do you do with that realization? Do you then humble yourself, ask for forgiveness and trust God, or do you reject Him and acdept the future consequences for your own decision?

Real is a good word to use here though. And if God is the name for that in your life, then that's it for you.

Tragicomic said: You have lost faith in God. Or, God has lost faith in you. Take your pick, choose your destiny.

Paul Tillich said that "The courage to be is rooted in the God who appears when God has disappeared in the anxiety of doubt." All I meant was that at that point in time, it is a good thing to surrender, let go and just allow what will happen to happen. Let it ferment and brew. Whatever realization eventually comes out of it is and where that leads one, is their destiny. It is a becoming of sorts.
God is just another name for a whole universe of things and we have the right to see and to choose whichever truly works for us which we can relate to (including a relationship with a god) and which fulfills our so-called destiny and contributes to mankind's, in a positive way that is, if we choose that too.

Yes, you have the freedom to choose rejection of God and replace Him with whatever you think should take His place as 'right in your own eyes'. But, I don't recommend it. I want to persuade you to believe and have that relationship with God, for your sake. That would be positive for you.