What it means to be moral

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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Sonofgloin » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:44 am

Zealot wrote:
Son_of_Richard wrote:Luther himself was a perfect example of the kind of priest Jesus loathed.

And with that you prove to every enlightened Christian that in some ways you yourself are deeply corrupted.


Z he certainly casts a few, his brand of word spreading requires a quarry to satiate his gravel needs if it's to be a lifetime of spreading the salvation and love message.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:38 pm

Being moral isn't about persecuting people.

Well fuck!
What the hell!?

Now it makes sense why everyone around me keeps thinking that I should go to jail.
I mean, I make sure to put them back in their places so they can't actually get me to jail, the horse rains help with that little bit, but I always did have a sneaky suspicion that none of them saw me as a good person.

Well...now that I know this is how it works, they can't fool me any longer!

I'll make sure they pay for their loathing deceit!
I will show them just how persecution is moral, right after I cleanse their souls with their own blood.

hmmm...I'm hungry...I think I'll get a pop-tart.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Oughtist » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:06 am

Hey Stumps!

Just gotta give you this link. I have to admit that when you mentioned your affiliation with LDS a bit back, it stopped me a bit. You know, the space suit underwear and all that...

But I've seen this documentary twice, and it really gives me renewed appreciation about what religion's role OUGHT to be centered on. I don't know. Maybe you've already seen it (it must be quite the topic of discussion in Mormon circles...)

www.newyorkdollmovie.com

Don't let the title page distract you. It's all about love.
Things are apparent.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:58 am

You know, the space suit underwear and all that...

Shhh!

We don't tell everyone about that stuff! If we did there would be no one left to rule. Sheesh...


Maybe you've already seen it (it must be quite the topic of discussion in Mormon circles...)

*shrug* not that I've heard or anything, but then again, LDS don't really talk about popularity much, and they are also used to having it in their crowd.
For example of this point:
Orson Scott Card
Emily Cushing
Jon Heder
Katherine Heigl
Jared Hess
Gordon Jump (a.k.a. The Maytag Man)
...
and the list can go and go...but blah...

Also to note, LDS don't really spend much time, as a church, talking about conversions so this wouldn't be something that would have been brought up.

But I'll have to check that out sometime.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby The Paineful Truth » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:54 pm

What's love got to do with it?

Love is relevant, but not in the emotional way most people mean it. Love is not an emotion, it is a commitment to another's well being supported by the emotions of esteem, loyalty, respect, sexual attraction, familial bonds, brotherhood etc. Therefore when we talk about morality it is the same thing as saying we are committed to the equal protection of the rights of all to their life, liberty and property from violation through force or fraud (i.e. The Golden Rule). That commitment, then, is love supported by the emotions mentioned as well as the societal emotional need for good order, the drive to contribute, recognition of that contribution, and above all our genuine personal fulfillment within (preferably) or without that society.

Anything beyond that is not morality but virtue, the emotional drive to adhere to an individual set of standards such as courage, compassion, forbearance or patience. Religion has mucked up and intentionally intermixed virtue and morality over the millennia to the point where that confusion is embedded in our psyche and can only be excised through the torturous process of apostasy.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:16 am

The English words for that part of Love are devotion, empathy, and compassion.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby The Paineful Truth » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:52 pm

TheStumps wrote:The English words for that part of Love are devotion, empathy, and compassion.


Which part of Love?
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:36 pm

Love is not an emotion, it is a commitment to another's well being...Therefore when we talk about morality it is the same thing as saying we are committed to the equal protection of the rights of all to their life, liberty and property from violation through force or fraud (i.e. The Golden Rule). That commitment, then, is love...

That.

The above is all possible by devotion, empathy, and compassion.
Without emotional pull for any of these three, then none of what you are talking about is possible; or if possible, is fraudulent.

These are the aspects of Love that are attributed in the Bible more than any other use of the word Love.

For instance, probably the most highlighted concept in the Bible is that from Matthew 22:39, being that of, "And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' " (the Golden Rule, you spoke of)

Well, the Greek here is agaphseiv, which means either to welcome or to entertain; to be prefer the company of, to concern dearly for (as in...if they perished, you would attend their funeral), or it means to be pretty pleased with something, or to be contented at, with, or about a thing.

So this is more along the lines of having empathy and compassion for other people, and as such having a devotion to their good and hard times via the shared empathy and compassion.
To remain open, as the word suggests in it's prefix later used in the English language for "Agape", meaning "wide open".

The point of this aspect, in Greek, of Love (of which the Greek have quite a few as most around here know) is to suggest that one should remain unguarded and open so to remain empathetic and compassionate towards the humanity of another person.

This, indeed, is the Golden Rule that you refer to.

Because the English language only recognises one word for Love, then this is what I meant by saying that the English words for this form of Love were devotion, empathy, and compassion
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Sonofgloin » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:10 am

The Paineful Truth wrote:Anything beyond that is not morality but virtue, the emotional drive to adhere to an individual set of standards such as courage, compassion, forbearance or patience. Religion has mucked up and intentionally intermixed virtue and morality over the millennia to the point where that confusion is embedded in our psyche and can only be excised through the torturous process of apostasy.


PT could you expand on the intermixing of virtue and morality?
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby aussie_bloke » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:57 am

TheStumps wrote:Orson Scott Card
Emily Cushing
Jon Heder
Katherine Heigl
Jared Hess
Gordon Jump (a.k.a. The Maytag Man)
...
and the list can go and go...but blah...

I can't quite pick it, but that list seems a bit unholy...
"We went full out through the gears as we cleared the last speed limit of the border town complex with the HO now warm and ready, thundering past a couple of cars and a semi. At last it was free of any and all restrictions- there was only open road ahead."
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby the_stump » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:18 am

TheStumps wrote:[Some awesome stuff.]

G'day mate. How's things?
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:57 am

aussie_bloke wrote:I can't quite pick it, but that list seems a bit unholy...

*shrug*
Guess that depends on who's scale is rating what.

Card's books, though, if you compare against the Book of Mormon, are heavily populated with LDS content.
For reading of what I mean read this well written review of the Alvin Maker series:
http://farms.byu.edu/publications/revie ... um=1&id=26
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:57 am

the_stump wrote:
TheStumps wrote:[Some awesome stuff.]

G'day mate. How's things?

Good?
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Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby the_stump » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:53 am

TheStumps wrote:
the_stump wrote:
TheStumps wrote:[Some awesome stuff.]

G'day mate. How's things?

Good?

Personally, I'm doing OK. And I'll take it you are, too.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Jayson » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:51 am

meh, more or less.
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Spiritual: a set of neurological processes dealing with value placement, empathy, and sympathy through the associative truncation of relative identity, and which has reached a value set capable of being described as reverent to the individual, and from which existential experience and reflection is capable explicitly.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby 1mpious » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:14 pm

*bump*

(seems relevant?)
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby Sanguinus » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:28 pm

Martyrs of the cross would no doubt find it interesting.
The divine spirit in man guarantees life according to our own immortality.
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Re: What it means to be moral

Postby 1mpious » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 pm

Yeah, blast from the past!
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