athism

is there any athists here? and what’s your reason not to believe that there is a god?

Hi,
What are your reasons for not looking through the forums to see this exact thing has been covered aproximately 1 million times before posting your inane question?
But as a response, I would ask if you believe in the easter bunny. If not, why not?

Gods a broad term meaning different things to different people. You need first to define what you mean by god then and only then may we discuss why or why not we believe in such a concept.

I’ve been toying with the notion of having a shirt made that says “God Bless Atheism”. It seems to me that the concept of God is used to destroy so many things, why not use it to destroy the concept of God?
What does that word “God” mean anyway?

"There is too little love in the World for us to able to afford to give any of it away to imaginary beings. – Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

the god in a religious sense most appropriately means the creator I imagine. okay, perhaps the discussion should be, whether you believe that (or logical reasoning) that since the world seems to be fine-tuned, has it been designed by a being? or can we infer from the fine tuning of the universe for life and the anthropic principle that there are simply man universes, which each of them is a result of random fluctuation, that we as observers can only observe fine-tuned for life as we are a lifeform?
Yan

I’ll take 10 please.

“God Bless Atheism” Haha! That was great. Any atheist ever been told “God bless you” or “God bless”? What was your response?

I smile and nod. Making anything of something so trivial just isn’t worth the effort. (unless it is on an internet forum specificly designed for such things)

In that sense all I can say yankit is that I believe in an architect. Things like PHI makes chance seem too improbable.

let’s not talk about the universe to start with then. let’s just talk about life. I do not think that it is necessary for life to exist with a creator as in a being who creates life. I think that given a longggg time, it is possible for the right sort of molecules to come together to spark off evolution.
Yan

If life “sparked” and evolved, then I think it’s possible for the universe as well. However, it is very difficult to prove and actually know, therefore some people appeal to faith. Not me, I’m content in not/never knowing rather than relying on faith.

As for the atheistic response to “God Bless You”, I smile and nod as well. I was looking for an alternative.

Hi,

God is for me a reality above or beyond natural experience that has somehow been revealed to or discovered by humankind, in varying and superficially different forms. The abundance of religious experience fails to grasp what reality lies behind the experience it imparts, and yet knowing sometimes whispers itself into our mind. Whether God is in or out of nature is beyond my knowledge, but God seems independant of it all.

The experience guides us towards Mercy and Love, towards Justice and Grace. Perhaps ‘God’ has something to do with ‘Good’ like ‘Gott’ has something to do with ‘Gut’ since it is not a rendering of of the Hebrew ‘El’ from a word meaning to be strong, or JHVH, another word generally employed to denote the Supreme Being, which is uniformly rendered in the Authorized Version by “LORD,” printed in small capitals and translated as ‘I AM THAT WHICH I AM’ or ‘I AM’

I can understand Atheists, since I too am weary of the restrictions of language. Everything that our language can achieve is far behind the broadness of mystical experience. I am also weary of my own physical restrictions, although I know that my weakness is due to the chasm between us. Christians believe that Jesus was used to bridge that chasm and show us the abilities of the children of God, who have faith.

But who, asks the Atheist, has faith enough to follow Christ? Where is faith like a mustard seed that would move mountains? Where is faith that takes up the seed of Love that multiplies a hundredfold? Where is the faith that heals and comforts? In our time Christians want victory before the struggle, they want Resurrection without the Cross, they want to reap before it is sown.

Shalom
Bob

Bob. I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again. Mysticism seems to me the most intellectually honest form of theism. As a God can not be proved, (which is the short answer to the original inquirer) to claim concrete knowledge of him in any sense is sheer hegemonious hypocrisy. I don’t think God cares if we consider ourselves his chosen people or takes notice of how many times a day we hit that prayer rug. These seem to me like arbitrary social conventions which obtain their power through tradition. On the other hand, as Bob and i have discussed before, myth is a positive force in our lives, it is when the myth is accepted as incontrovertible truth without looking for the lessons within the myth that religion ceases to be a powerful influence in our lives. Sadly, this is what happens to most religious adherents. They lose their sense of balance and cease loving their neighbor (as almost all religions teach) due to their respective religious differences which they consider Gospel.

Why are the concept of God and creator always linked? The two are mutually exclusive. There is no reason why there can not be a God without him/her/it being the creator, and there can certainly be a creation with no God. I think the concept of ‘God the creator’ is the simple man’s answer to the age old metaphysical question: “Why something other than nothing.”

Hi Marshall,

I don’t see a real reason to separate God from the Creator, even if we look for God in us or around us. We don’t know how the inner things are connected to the outer things, but Mystics praise the first Thought and source of information that set the universe in motion and believe that this Thought is also the source of wisdom that can illuminate mankind.

The astronomical seems far off from the whisper of recognition, but both are stupendous. Perhaps we just haven’t got the right angle on it and need to separate ourselves from three-dimensional thinking, before we see the small and apparently insignificant resting in the ultimate in Magnitude.

Shalom
Bob

What do i matter? It is good to feel one’s insignificance within the vast universe at times. Mine is a more naturalistic stance, though.

This is an intuition, i take it?

Hi Marshall,

It is more, but yes, it is an intuitive recognition that those who are wholely resting upon a materialistic world view, fail to see the grandness of the apparently insignificant. This is the insight that has God in nappies or diapers, as an infant child, small and delicate. It is an intended contadiction of images to bring the in-sight of Mankind to see more than just the outward things.

Such in-sight is wisdom because it takes a second look, it understands that there is more moving the events of this world than meets the eye. It sees an aura of magic in the rainforests, perhaps the soul of the earth. It sees the spirit of animals, willing to banter with the spirit of man. It sees the wisp of a spirit in the morning mists. It values the natural resources of the earth, accepts the circulation of life and death, gives dignity to the frail and dying, tends the small baby and the shoot of a plant.

It is the interactive ‘knowing’ of the Hebrew, meaning the intercourse between life forms, between male and female, but also between Mankind and God, Mankind and Mater Earth.

Shalom
Bob

And it is necessary to believe in God to foster this attitude? One could well imagine a non-theistic Christian. Who practised Christian ethics, but nevertheless, was atheist.

Shalom

No, but the search for God reveals these in-sights, opens up the mystery for a moment and lets us glimpse the things that are hidden from the non-seeker.

I wouldn’t demand of someone to say he was a theist, but he would have to be an asker, a seeker, a knocker on doors to be told, to find and to have it opened to him. Christ has presented us with the entry, he now leads us in our search - for God. But perhaps there is an ‘atheist search for God’ - you know me by now to know that I wouldn’t rule it out. I just take the paths with signs, rather than go through the underbrush…

Shalom
Bob

Thats a simlar belief that many Shinotist have.

I believe practicing “chirstian ethics” is really just human nature. Theists just try to put meaning behind their actions.

For example, when you see human blood gush out of someone, you would be disgusted at the sight. Not becaues your a theist, but because your human and you naturally have compassion.

Also, it’s natural not to be hurtful, because if it was natural to be hurtful we wouldn’t have such things as guilt.

With that in mind

The imbrace of you being simply human could also reveal these “in-sights”
No need for seeking somthing greater. Because trying to put meaning behind these actions only results in speculation.

But this is just Taoist roots popping out.

Hello Unknown,

A single conversation across the table with a wise man is worth a month’s study of books - at the core of Shin-toism (the way of the kami or god) are beliefs in the mysterious creating and harmonizing power of kami (or God).

I believe that ‘christian ethics’ grew out of what Christ lived, but he lived out of what he put his trust in. So too, to ethically be ‘christian’ you need to put your trust in something or someone. I don’t see human nature doing the things Christ did - or would have his followers do. Deep compassion requires followers to understand the nature of life and the nature of man, not just obey a set of rules. But to believe in the deep compassion of God, and see it in contrast to the suffering of mankind is to make a start.

The Bible (Proverbs 10:19):
The more you talk, the more you are likely to sin. If you are wise, you will keep quiet.
Tao - (Chapter 5):
The mouth, on the other hand, becomes exhausted if you talk too much. Better to keep your thoughts inside you.

Be gentle to others, be truthful in words, be trustworthy in ruling. Be competent in doing things, be well timed in action, Should you empty yourself of everything, in perfect serenity, then you may ultimately know intuitively, the ten thousand things in flux, and ultimately return to the Source.

Shalom
Bob