Israel and Zionism

Israel and Zionism

The following “Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend” is held by some to be an actual letter from Dr. King to an acquaintance, others say it is a compilation of his statements.

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely ‘anti-Zionist.’ And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God’s green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–this is God’s own truth. "Anti-semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so. "Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule-over-them.

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested–DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country. "How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfillment of God’s promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism.

"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just ‘anti-Zionist’! “My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate anti-Semitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled–as others have been–into thinking you can be ‘anti-Zionist’ and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews–make no mistake about it.”

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Karl - Have a blessed Shabbat / Sabbath!
We want Mashiach Now!

I suppose that this is going to be a touchy subject.

But this - and I have great love for the erudite Martin Luther King Jr. - is nonsense.

To evaluate this, let us examine an analogy:
You live in Canada, so you are familiar with our native situation I assume. Imagine that you live in Toronto. Tomorrow, all Iroquois assume control of the city by taking out all the police stations and military installations nearby. A war ensues - Toronto vs the rest of Canada. With the help of the US, Toronto emerges victorious. But, the non-native population of Toronto is denied the possibility of controlling their own destiny and are driven out of the only land they have known themselves. Of course, the natives are perfectly justified in doing this - indeed, justice requires it. Since it was their homeland previously and their ancient religious tradition calls on them to save the land from the scourge of the cement, there can be no arguing against it. To do so is to be a racist biggot. Canadians who lived there for hundreds of years and outnumbered the natives have no rights because of history. If you disagree, you are simply anti-native - bottom line.

If you accept this, then you indeed can hold to the view that Dr. King does. But who would? What is missing here is a balance between the rights of one community and the other. If Zionism necessitated the invasion of a country and the discrimination of a people it is wrong. I can be anti-zionism and not anti-semitic. We can recognize that Jewish people have an equal right to live on their holy land as do palasinians. But this would not be Zionism - for it calls for a single Jewish state to the exclusion of others’ rights. Surely, this is not a situation that Dr. King, nor you, should support.

Good response. I would only add that there are plenty of Jews who want nothing to do with Zionism. Does that make them ani-semitic?

I do think that whenever you use an edict from YOUR god to lay claim to lands not already inhabitated by you, you are in the wrong.

Of course, you still have the right to live there, but you must be the party responsible for doing it peacefully.

The fact that the enemies of isreal are cold-blooded suicidal murderers and their leaders are corrupt puppet masters, kind of takes away any righteous complaint they may have.

They have successfuly made the jews the victims. And have accomplished nothing in actually getting their aganda thruogh

When an agenda is based on killing an entire people, it is doomed

Of course all the things i see that are wrong with Isreal (the Jewish Democracy, talk about church and state) are moot, because of the corruption on the other side.

I feel if the palestininans aer true, and good and really want to seek peace, they must stand up to the violence, and not die killing jews, but die speaking out against the violence they themselves are responsible for.

They need a DR. Allah Muhamed King

a peaceful righteous solution is possible

But Confession, you need to truly be sorry for your sins, can you be truly sorry fo your own actions that you took thinking you would get into heaven anyway?

When judgement day comes, it is YOU that will have to atone for your sins.

not at the confessional, if you do something wrong, can you be forgiven, yes you can.

but do you have to be truly sorry, if you murdered everyone on this board than confessed, are you being true to yourself, are you truly sorry?

How can you be when you preordained your forgiveness before you commited the act. Therefore the act of confession is itself a scam.

Do you think you will pull a fast one on God?

Judas went to heaven, he was instrumental in killing Jesus.

if that doesnt make sense, then you will never understand confession

I’ve never agreed with any relgious claim to land or any claim to be the chosen people. Such claims cause injustice.

i was wondering where that confessional thread went. Sorry i am new here.

Injustice it does cause, bt when the side that is receiving the injustice is corrupt violent, and even more unjust then they are, well its hard to help them, feel for them, or really listen to their hardships.

as far as i am concerned the palestinians have brought upon themselves their own suffering.

I beleive it was to use that suffering they themselves caused to justify a war, no a jihad.

One of the problems in the passion movie for Arabs in the promise Land in Israel is that there was no Arabs in the Time of Yeshua / Jesus in such land, the so called arab site in the holy mountain was all Jewish, Betlechem Jewish, Nezareth, Shechem, etc. All Jewish

This peopel came in, and claim History, but history says nothing of them…

May be they are liars… anti-semites as this arabs (moon worshipers) want and have even in theirs books as an agenda to kill all jews…

All those who hate jews should complain to G-d… who’s son Yeshua came, the King of the Jews to soon be a king over alll Israel (Ezekiel 44-47)

Amen

When the Jewish community is criticized it is referred to as: anti-semitism.

Are there any semites? are they jewish (in the modern sense)? what is a semite?

I think an interesting question is WHY is there anti-semitism at all? and not say anti-chinese, or anti-anybody else.

Why are the Jews hated? Is it because they are “God’s chosen”?

And the hate itself is a manisfestation, perverse albeit, of acknowledging God. This is so as the psychology for this hate could be rooted in the inability to accept or rejection of the irrefutable evidence for God, namely Israel, which in turn gets expressed as a desire to destroy this very evidence, and if that is not possible, an intense irrational hatred.

Basically, semetic people are people native to the Middle East and include Arabs, Persians, Turks and Jews. Over the course of time the term anti-semitism has come to have a different meaning, and now has a direct association with Jewish persecution. This probably has a lot to do with World War II Germany’s ideas of racial purity. Apart from the Jews, they also tried to exile or otherwise get rid of Gypsies (or Roma, people from Romania) Asiatics and Africans.

A substantial proportion of modern Jews are of European descent (although they may track a matriarchical lineage back towards a “full-blooded” Jewish ancestor), due to having lived generations in Europe. However, according to Jewish tradition, they remain Jews (in tradition and religion) and have a right to live and settle in Israel under the current law (this is a holdover from WWII).

Some strident defenders of the current Israeli policy towards the Palestinians use the term to portray legitimate (and also some not so legitimate) critics of the policy as wanting to gas vast numbers of Jews. This is usually due to the fact that less eloquent defenders of the current Israeli policy are more emotional than rational on this particular subject which unfortunately leads to ad hominem attacks on their critics.

Nice!

According to the statements preceeding, in regardance to the Dr. King letter, etc.

I believe Dr. King was all confused in the head. As far as I understand it, many jews currently in Israel are formerly European settlers.
Prior to their self proclaimed right to rule Israel, there were white, blue eyed, blond haired Jewish people heading into Europe.
In my mind this image is scary.

I imagine being a jew in Israel prior its formation, and despite minor conflicts Jews may have had with muslims… they both worshipped the same god, and respected eachother as brothers. Many of the jews even married muslims prior 1948 in Israel. Then i see this herd of non-hebrews pouring into my country. They call themselves zionists. They do not resemble us jews, but they claim to be our ancient ancestors, so we welcome them with caution.

All of a sudden, they start to settle in huge numbers… they pour into the country until there are more of them than there of us. They soon begin to speak our language. They are also being supported by America.
How come America has never supported us?

To confirm this i did some websearching: Read the following

"Our problems were not with the Jews living with us as neighbors; these relations were also very close, because we were acquainted through several generations; we trusted them and they trusted us. The new arrivals were the ones that caused problems. When the fighting began in the Old City between the Jewish Quarter and the Arabs, it was not the residents of the Jewish Quarter that fought, it was new arrivals. They used to be smuggled in buses, they would lay on the bottom of the bus and run through the blockade. We heard then and even later that the original Jewish inhabitants were surprised and asked “Why, what is this all about?”

2 Religious peoples had their separate zionist struggles. The only ones who did not were muslims, for they were there the whole time, and their parents parents’ etc. were there dating way back before history can remember. We have to remember, Islam was created only 1400 years ago, and before that they were all Jews and pagans. So the Palestinian arab muslims were once jews… and the jews that existed there pre-1948 were related to the arab-muslims. It’s just like the Europeans to grant Europe’s jewish population a ticket for conquest, for they didn’t want jewish people in their land (due to hatred or racism), and it was an opportunity to control a new territory indirectly… as appropriated by the United States.

-Dunngar The Magnificent

It seems to me that every one thinks that Zionism, thus Judaism is a color religion?

Let me explain. Some of my friends are black jews from Ethiopia, many of my friends are Latino Jews, which they call themselves Sefardi, which means they (but not all) came from Spain. One of the largest groups of people who moved to Israel were Jews from Muslim countries, like Sudan, Ethiopia, Marracos, Yemen, Babilon (Irak), Egypt. They are all Sefardi as well. Sefardi Jews were not into marrying outside their own, and guess what? We got all colors! My grandfather was blond hair (almost white) blue eye. I’m dark skin (olive) green / blue eyes. And none of us have been in Europe ever (nor I ever want to go there for their anti-Jewish sentiment).

Also if you think about it. Yeshua (the gentiles call Him Jesus) was a Jew from Israel in the Jewish tonw of Beth-Lechem, Samson from Bet-shemesh which is called today by some arabic name so it won’t sound Jewish. David, the King took the city of Jerusalem, where the Temple was running, and even where Yeshua went every high holiday to the TEMPLE, not to a mosque.

Israel has been Jewish ever since the time of Joshua Hebron was Jewish, and so on, and so forth. The whole Israel was Jewish.

If you read the story of one of the sons of David, he had hair the color of the sun (I can remember which one, but he was hairy), and the last of David’s wife was black, just like Moses did.

I think is stupid how people get into color and religion. Why do they not do that too in Islam. The only ones that I know who have black slaves TODAY are Muslims! look it up on the net!

Shalom Shalom

woa woa woa… Get your history right Eddiesaidjr… “So the Palestinian arab muslims were once jews” What are you kidding me? Where did you get such an absurd statment. I’d like to see some sources here before you start pouring out such historical inaccurate poppycock. Secondly theres no such thing as Palestinian people in the first place. They are just Arabs. Heres a little eye opener for you.

Did you know that there was never any country called Palestine? Did you know that there is no such thing as a Palestinian people?

The ideas that the West Bank and Gaza are occupied Palestinian land, and that the Palestinian people are fighting for their land, have been accepted by most of the governments of the world and by most of the media in the world. But if you read on, you will see that these two claims are the biggest lies ever deliberately perpetrated on humanity.

Check out any map of the Middle East and see for yourself. You will find Palestine listed as a region as it always has been, but definitely not a country. We can locate the Mojave Desert on the map, but we still do not recognize it as our 51st state, let alone a country. Similarly, the region of Siberia is a region not a state. Or the Sahara is a region not a state, etc. Neither is Palestine a state. It never was a country, just a region.

Importantly, the Jews did not displace anyone, because no one permanently resided there. It was a land inhabited by nomadic, Bedouin tribes. The whole region was nothing but deserts and swamps. Only about 120,000 Arabs resided in an area that covered the territories, the state of Israel and Jordan. When Mark Twain visited the area, he wrote he found nothing but a wasteland.

During the 19 years that the territories – including Jerusalem and Gaza – were occupied by the kingdoms of Jordan and Egypt, no one talked about a Palestinian state … not the Arab countries, not the United Nations. Nobody asked Jordan or Egypt to abdicate their ownership and give it to the Palestinians. Not even the Palestinians themselves said anything about a Palestinian state or a Palestinian people, because nobody heard of a Palestinian people. It never existed.

The fact simply is that there are no Palestinians. These people are Arabs like all other Arabs, and they happen to live in a region called Palestine. They are not a separate people.

What makes a separate people? Religion, language, culture, garb, cuisine, etc. The Arabs in Palestine speak the same language, practice the same religion, have the same culture, etc., as all the other Arabs. The few minor differences that exist between them are like the minor differences that exist between the Welsh, the Scots, and the Londoners. They are still all Britons. Yankees and Southerners have the same minor differences, but they are still all Americans. People in the south of France are quite different from the people in the north, but they are still all French. These inconsequential differences do not make a people.

The Arabs living in Syria or Jordan, etc., are also the same Arabs, but they are each a separate nation because they each have a separate country. The so-called Palestinians want a separate country because they claim to be a separate nation. They are not. They were never a separate people before the new state of Israel. How did they become one now?

By Sharon Nader Sloan
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

wow!!!
::applause::

that’s an ILP classic right there!

Since Ben has enlighten me to this fascinating aspect of our world today, I’m starting to see how serious this situation really is. And what, if any, kind of peaceful solution can come out of it, I don’t know. But something needs to be done. God forbid, no pun intended, that these guys over there get nuclear capability and blow the Earth up and kill us all over it!