Islam: Peaceful religion, or dangerous killer?

*Let me preface this with saying i am not a racist and do not hold spiteful feelings toward Arabs or Muslims. I lived in Malaysia for a solid three years and made plenty of friends there, many whom of which were Muslims.

If you have read any of the Qur’an, you would plainly see that Muhammed’s writings are a direct representative of his state-of-being. When he has no army, he writes of PEACE. When he has an army, he writes of the rightful KILLING of infidels.

Allow me to quote the second Surah of the Qur’an, “Al-Baqarah”:

One may argue that only certain groups of the religion are zealous militants - the truth is that those groups are indeed following the holy book that all of the groups regard as their foundation for apologetics and doctrine. The “peaceful” side of Islam is full of nothing more than heretics, doing the opposite of what the Qur’an declares must be done.

Here is another passage taken from the fourth Surah (An-Nisaa), that also says to kill unbelievers, and never to befriend them:

Peaceful Muslims are not properly representing Islam - just as many Jews today throw out old practices and write it off as “cultural change”. The truth is, the Torah does not take such things into account, they should still be practicing every single last drop of those Levitical laws until their Messiah comes.

Nos.

Everyone agrees 100% with every statement i made? Everyone agrees that Islam is a threat to society?

Nos.

i think thats just as ignorent a statement as saying any religion or race for that matter is a thret unto socity

No, i’m basing that statement on their Qur’an, obviously. Race’s aren’t held to line up with any particular book. Religions are, and Islam’s Qur’an prescribes death to the non-believer. What’s so hard to understand?

Nos.

there are diffrent translations to every religous text thats why you have diffrent denominations with diffrent belifes

There’s only one Qur’an, there’s no different versions of it, only the one (this has been cchallenged recently but on the whole there is only one version of the Qur’an). The only difference are the translations of it which sometimes down play some parts of it according to taste. For example you won’t find many english translations that accurately state about your rights to beat your wife if she’s not shagging you. But they’re not mistranslation, they’re deliberate lies by English translators of the Qur’an to make Muslims seem less extreme and more modern than their religion actually is.

That’s not the same as the differences between Christian interpretations of the bible as there there lots of different versions. With the Qur’an you can always go back to the original text to find thae meaning.

AS for your interpretation Nos, I don’t see it at all. The first passage you quote say act to reclaim lost land or against invaders. It’s a large leap to then pretend that you need to violent all the time. Is it not virtually the creed of every nation state to instill patriotism and resistance to invasion and yet you wouldn’t accuse them of being overly agressive.

The 2nd passage you quote is slightly more sinister, but I get a feeling it is quoted out of context and leads on from the first one or a passage of similar intent.

Look it up for yourself in An-Nisaa 89. It was not taken out of context:

Nos.

Hmm …I wonder how you got out alive, livin in a country where these passages are read by muslims each day of their lives whom you claim to have befriended. And that wouldda been the case, had they not read the rest of it …you see, there’s a danger in pickin things without takin into account what the rest of it says.

Mohammed (peace and blessins be upon him) is not the author of the Quran …if you think he is, tell me how.

The translation you have picked seem to have been done by no friend of Islam, judgin by the vocabulary in use.

So, from the passages of Nisaa’ or Woman …

[i]88. Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

90. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

91. Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them. [/i]

Passage 90, if read with an open and clear mind would tell you what the message really is

…and of Sura Al Baqara, or The Cow …

[i]190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. [/i]

If those were the passages that you picked to prove Islam to be a threat to society, we know how mature you are.

I agree with Matthew E. and stoney 69, the translation originally quote sounds aggressive but if you compare translations, you’ll find that it is misleading.

Readily available on internet (4:89) They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_search.htm

This seems to be the same translation as stoney 69 is using.

All Book-Religions can be used to install militant feelings and the recitation practice of Islam can lead to an approach of not thinking about what you’re reciting - but there are reciting Jews and Christians as well. Whereas the beauty of the arabic language is said to be particularly apparent in the Qu’ran I think that you will find that there are as many Qu’ran scholars teaching what is meant in the words as in Christianity and Judaism, with as many variances in emphasis.

Again, it is amongst the Mystics that you find the common denominator and the grounds for a peaceful co-existence.

Shalom
Bob

End of the day, you’d be wrong to assume any religion promotes hate or violence. The message in all scriptures is about love, peace and understanding among peoples.

The actions of the “sick-minded” amongst us is no indication of the opinions of the masses or the message of the holy scripts. They do not represent any religion !

Let there be peace …

End of the day, you’d be wrong to assume any religion promotes hate or violence. The message in all scriptures is about love, peace and understanding among peoples.

The actions of the “sick-minded” amongst us is no indication of the opinions of the masses or the message of the holy scripts. They do not represent any religion !

Let there be peace …

i have not read the Qur’an, but would it be like a Bible? Like when i’m at school, there is a devotional to make a point. (i’m Jewish, so i don’t take all of this to heart like my friends…but i do listen. And it seems like my school is deliberately keeping everyone from knowing any more than necessary about other religions) But they’re taking it out of it’s orginal context and making a new meaning out of what they took out. So, because you didn’t read the whole thing, you wouldn’t exactly be doing what God says, so is that what’s happening with the Qur’an too?

The Qur’an is not being taken out of context by catholics, or any other non-muslim.

It is being taken out of context by the RULERS OF ISLAM, the terrorist kingpins

the people who feel the best way to stay in power is to prop up an enemy, make it the most evil bile threat to your way of life, then the people will epend on you for answers, the answer? global terrorism.

I do not feel the Islam world really hates us, but you dont hear much condemnation of violence by the ‘peaceful’ muslims

and if they do reject our lifestyles, it is the movies, and drugs and violence and homosexuality they detest

Why did Spain get attacked?

is ti because they helped america fight in bagdad?

is it because Cordoba in spain was once a great Muslim city, part of the triad of Cairo and Bagdad?

the point is who cares, this isnt about religion, or muslims or jews,

this about a depraved violence that is being unleashed by people who accuse themselvs of being islam

that have their people looking past common sense and relying on these corrupt people to do the right thing

i cryed like it was 9-11 last night when i saw the pictures from Spain

that is the crime and that is what needs to be stopped, if it is being done in the name of some jihad, then the Good Muslims must stand up and bring down this violence themselves.

They are just as guilty as i would be if there was Catholics blowing up gay bars and abortion clinincs in the name of Jesus, and i didnt stand up against it.

Maybe the focus can be adjusted here:

Does Islam as a religion promote violent action?

I am inclined to believe that the violence comes from the binary decision making style so prevelant in Islamic culture (and many other places as well).

EXAMPLE: Honor killings.

When a daughter is separated from her family, either by force or by choice (running away, kidnapped…) she is usually suspected of infedelities and killed by the family to keep thier honor.

Read up on it.

This practice is not explicitly supported in the Q’uran.

The distictions between “right” and “wrong” and the typical underdevelopment of the orbitofrontal cortex present in certain demographics of men lead invariably to easy acts of extreme violence.

mwlusa.org/publications/posi … rs/hk.html
Sorry this isnt the most objective source I can find, Im tired : (

Biological basis:

cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/Bulletin/ 2002/february/specialFeatureLevin.asp

luminet.net/~wenonah/new/brainagg.htm

whenthebodysaysno.ca/scatter … globe5.htm

These are just a few, I suggest reading up on it

The Koran differs from the Bible in that it was written while Prophet Muhammad (Peace be apon him) was alive. It is all poetry and it guides human thought. Just read the first part of the second surah in english and you wil find it pre-emptively strikes all your doubts just before you have them.

compuex.com/ad101/koran.html

I think that any time you try and take an understanding of oneness or God or Allah and put it into words (the Koran) you’re going to run into the problem of people believing the book is Absolute, not God, which is a form of idolatry.

In the Islamic world today, book-worship is a pretty big problem. It’s probably the root of all of the trouble in the middle east. So in reply to the topic, I’d say Islam, when not properly understood (as it tends not to be) is a huge social problem, probably the biggest one around right now.

Islam is truly a religion of peace. However solely peace can’t make enemies disappear.

Many of you have taken Quranic verses out of them context!

Why don’t post also some verses above and beneath your given verses??

Truly, you only seek hatred for Muslims.

For example:
3 And a declaration from Allah and His Messenger to mankind on the greatest day (the 10th of Dhul-Hijjah - the 12th month of Islamic calendar) that Allah is free from (all) obligations to the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) and so is His Messenger. So if you (Mushrikun) repent, it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape (from the Punishment of) Allah. And give tidings (O Muhammad ) of a painful torment to those who disbelieve.

4 Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).

5 Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6 And if anyone of the Mushrikun (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur’an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.

(surah Taubah)

If one only showed verses number 3 & 5 you all will truly say that Islam is a religion of war but continue reading you can read the verses about peace in WAR!

Don’t forget that these verse were send down to Muhammed because he was on war with the pagans. Even then Allah commanded Muhammed to show mercy!

Again:

Did America had such behaviour when they fought against Vietnam? I don’t think so. In common war it’s kill or be killed. In Islam is kill or repent and be safe, which other ideology says the same? None. Islam always shows mercy even during war.

Not transgressing the limits means not to kill women and children, for the Messenger of Allah (saws) “forbade the killing of women and children”. Not transgressing the limits means that the elderly, the sick, monks, worshippers and hired labourers are not attacked. Not transgressing the limits means not killing animals wantonly, burning crops and vegetation, polluting waters and destroying homes, monasteries, churches and synagogues:" Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Indeed, Allah loves those who deal with equity" (Qur’an 60:8)
source: http://www.preparingforpeace.org/sajid_islam_and_ethics_of_war_and_peace.htm[/url]

Islam was a violent movement that acted in the name of peace, its completely dis-honest to say it doesn’t have a violent history especially when you consider hoe big it’s empire became and how fast it was aquired.

anyone here familar with what machiavelli had to say about “armed prophets”???

anyone here recall what happened to those who were found worshiping the golden calf the first time moses brought down the 10 commands from mt. sanai?

violence IS the buisness of sucessful religions, you can’t keep metaphysical bullsh*t alive by words alone.