sometimes i eat with my mouth closed

dear christians:

did jesus die for EVERYone’s sins on the cross? yes or no?

Jesus died to atone for the world’s sins, which is not the same as to say the world is saved.

if he died for the world’s [meaning all the people in it, i assume] sin, how is it that the world, and everyone in it, is not saved? did he die in vain? did he do it just for the hell of it [no pun intended]?

My thought is, that this is a bit selfish. Or atleast early christians have made the religion a bit selfish.

We(humanity) can only find salvation through “HIM” and none other. Thus they have placed JESUS the “SON” above the father. When it is the FATHER that ultimately is above all.

The old testemant said place none other, no person or idol inbetween god and myself, So why would/should i place a MORTAL inbetween me and GOD even if he says he is god.

Well, obviously if you don’t think Jesus was God, you shouldn’t place Him before God. But of course, that’s not the Christian position, so you can’t very well say Christianity is selfish in that respect.

For the same reason there’s evil in the first place. For whatever reason, God has decided things are better if we have the option of messing things up. In other words, we all have the option to be saved, but that also results in an eternity of acknowledgement of God, and if you’ve been here very long, you’ve seen there are some people who prefer hell.

Well look at it this way. Can a Christian church Go through 1 month’s of church practice with out mentioning god? They can. They discuss and mention Jesus only. Thus they worship only jesus. The only pull out for them is that they think he is part of a trinity. But still they only worship 1/3 of the trinity.

They ‘can’, but that doesn’t mean they do. The word ‘God’ was said at 99% of all church services I’ve been to, I’d wager.

Well, you’ve haven’t shown that Christian churches in fact only mention Jesus and not God the Father. Saying that you could in theory construct 4 Christian sermons that don’t have the word ‘God’ in them doesn’t prove anything.

A completely groundless assertion. Here’s the Apostle’s Creed, a statement of belief from the early Christian church:

"I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN."

It’s clear there’s an emphasis on Jesus, but it’s also clear that God the Father is both acknowledged and worshipped.

Okay let me ask you this.

Why did god not say his plan early in the first scriptures. No instead he said he would not speak for a long time and that there would be false prophets. Lots of False Prophets.

And since were dealing with a ominpitent god, Who would know his plan, and would not change his plan. Why would he not admit his plan?

so if we assume that jesus is god,and god knows everything, did he know that these lost people would someday prefer hell to him, and NOT die for them at calvary? or are they enduring a penalty that has already been paid?

One thing I’d like to point out is that there’s no way even an omnipotent being could go about something, that a person couldn’t ask “Why didn’t He do it this way instead?”

 I don't want to talk about something else unless you're admitting you were wrong about the "Christians only worship Jesus and not God" thing.  If we're allowed to ignore each other's points to completely change the subject, this can go on for years. 

To address the other question, I'm not positive how much knowledge Jesus kept while He was a human. My assumption has always been that He wasn't all-knowing while he was a person, but I could be wrong. Even if He did know that some people would refuse His sacrifice, does that change anything? Hell isn't a punishment for a bad person, it's a natural state of events for the way human beings are now. Jesus gave us a way to aspire to something higher than human nature.

Well I started to write a responce that would be longer than my rapsheet But ill skip that.

God Is all knowing. He is all powerfull. He can not only make iron pipes the size of texas bend, but he can also turn the iron pipe INTO texas. He does not need a Man/god (hafling) to be persecuted and die. If he does then he is not a god. A god does one thing once and thats it, because if they do anything else they have more room to be wrong. But thats my view to the last topic

As to the previous topics I and you uccisore discussed, well while you find my questions silly i also find your responces silly and anything that would have followed would have been even more silly.

Now Catholics Do not have a Sheet with holes for eyes and call it the holy ghost, and they do not have large murals of a man they think is god on their walls they only have a martyr on the cross. Their symbolism is so near idolitry that martin luthar probably spends most of his time rotating.

Other denominations of Christianty have toned down the idols and relgious symbolism but they have also toned down other subjects such as gods current role with man. and how god played a role with jesus. The book we call new testemant has Few mentions of god THUS any church that preaches the book will have few mentions of god.

So on that note ill end it. If a Religion Says it is tied to a Earlier form of a religion but does not express a stronger TIE to the older religion, is it tied? Faith is not disprovable and peter said if you have enough of it you are saved. BUT Faith can also be empty.

Eh, it’s right there in black and white what Christians believe, and you can go to any Christian church service and see for yourself. I don’t find any ground for your claim that Christians only worship 1/3rd of the Trinity. Especially since the Trinity concept is a uniquely Christian dogma in the first place.

I agree that Catholicism has some doctrines that seem idolatrous.

Really. How many mentions of God are there in the New Testament? How many would you like? I don’t know why you’d make these spurious claims when the most commonly accepted statement of Christian belief is right up there for you to draw actual conclusions from.

Sometimes I eat with my mouth open. . .

No.

Matt. 20:28 - “Jesus gave his soul as a ransom in exchange for many.”

John 3:16 - “God loved the world so much that he gave [Jesus], in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

Everyone has the opportunity to take advantage of his sacrafice, but only those who do God’s will, will benefit from it.

icecreme,
I have to ask you what translation you are using because those verses do not sound accurate to me. New Living Translation or the Message maybe? Sound like it has been paraphrased somewhat. Just curious, thanks.

-Skep

No prob. I believe it was the New World translation. And I didn’t feel like typing out “only-begotten Son”, so I just typed in “Jesus” for simplicity sake. Didn’t think anyone would really care much.

BTW - Which translation do you use the most ?

Either way, here’s what the King James (since most people agree w/ it) says:

Matt. 20:28 – “Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”

John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The phrase “whosoever believeth in him” means more than just a simple acknowledgement of Jesus, since James 2:19 says that even the demons believe and still tremble. Does that mean that the demons will receive everlasting life b/c they simply believe in him? Obviously not, but what it does mean is that our “belief/faith” in Jesus must be proven by our works/actions/deeds. (James 2:17) It should be a way of life for us as Jesus set the example, not just a once a week Sun. thing.

John 17:3 – “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

Another translation says “taking in accurate knowledge of God and Jesus”, which is exactly what a person has to do if they want to get to know someone.