we don’t know anything. No one has ever known anything. ISn’t science just faith in something unknowable? What if were all in the matrix? Somoene explain to me why science is concrete and thus the truth. Basically i think i’m asking someone to counter kuhn? or wahtever the hell his name is
What about these people who say since we know nothing we can never refute the existence of god? Why should the default postion be theissrt more than atheist.
because the theist answer is more optimistic for the ruling minority on which their religion gives them a right of easement.
Harry Haller,
Not quite. We don’t truly know anything is the right answer in my opinion. There is no point to someone saying that we can’t know ANYTHING, what would be the point of our five senses and the environment around us if there was no way of us to know anything? Harry, I have experienced extremes from peoples views all my life, rarely is an extremist view carried by reason all the way, somewhere in the logic there is a huge leap that led to extremism. Having said that, why don’t we say that the things reason has led us to are known by us, known to be true to our biasness, our natural human bias. This is still a truth, just not an absolute truth, so we can say that something we know is truly that. Meaning, if I see a bird, in my statement “that is a bird” it should be understood that this is what I know as a biased human being. But the absolute truth would be something that agglomerates all things within and maybe outside of our universe. Since, if we understood ONE physical thing completely, we would invariably understand all else in the universe.
Harry Haller stated:
Science creates faith. Since all we have to go on are our five senses and reason, and science is the use of reason by experiment and thought to show repeatedly to our senses that what we think is true. Once this happens and we are observing our theories working in application we come to have faith in what we thought. Yes, even science isn’t perfect, and don’t get me started on the word (perfect), everything we have created - ever - is just the best thing we have thought up so far and has proven to us to be more successful then any other system.
Harry Haller stated:
I agree with your assertion. I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings, but to me religion is the highest form of brainwashing. The argument you stated about what others say about us never being able to refute the existance of God is as good as us not being able to refute the existance of fairies, ghosts, specters, goblins, unicorns, etc.
What’s your take?
Harry Haller
First, what are you doing out of Steppenwolf?
Second, I agree with Magius that science is the codification of the experience of the senses.
A strength is always a weakness standing on its head, and so it is with science: Science lacks imagination. That is where science is strong, and that is where it is weak.
I agree that belief and atheism are equally matters of faith. You pays your money, and you takes your choice.
While I have nothing but the liveliest admiration for Magius, I disagree with the assertion that religion is “brainwashing.”
Oswald Spengler defined religion as “a sense of direction in a directionless world.” Paul Tillich called it “that which we take seriously without reservation.” Carl Jung (working independently of Tillich) arrived at the same description. Victor Frankel said, “Life is a search for meaning, and religion is a search for ultimate meaning.”
According to Jung (and others), many “isms” (communism, for example) are secularizations of the religious instinct, which is why communism (and Nazism and fascism) are hostile to Christianity.
I can think of many adjectives to describe Alan Watts, but “brainwashed” is not among them.
As subjects go, religion is a biggie.
I will go to hell, but only if I can bring my dog.
Imagistar (forgot to login)
The following are actual church bulletins that have been selected out for their grammatical and spelling errors, some may argue they are Freudian slips, and illustrate quite a different message then apparently was first intended…
Church Bulletins
On the lighter side of religion, here are some actual sentences found in church bulletins and newsletters:
Don’t let worry kill you. Let the Church help.
Remember in prayer the many who are sick of our church and community.
For those of you who have children and don’t know it, we have a nursery downstairs.
The rosebud on the altar this morning is to announce the birth of David Alan Belzer, the sin of Rev. and Mrs. Julius Belzer.
Thursday at 5pm there will be a meeting of the Little Mothers Club. All wishing to become Little Mother, please see the minister in his private study.
Next Sunday, a special collection will be taken to defray the cost of the new carpet. All those wishing to do something on the new carpet will come forward and get a piece of paper.
The ladies of the church have cast off clothing of every kind and they may be seen in the church basement Friday.
Weight Watchers will meet at 7 p.m. at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance.
The 1991 Spring Council Retreat will be hell May 10 and 11.
Pastor is on vacation. Massages can be given to church secretary.
Eight new choir robes are currently needed, due to the addition of several new members and to the deterioration of some older ones.
Mrs. Johnson will be entering the hospital this week for testes.
The senior choir invites any member of the congregation who enjoys sinning to join the choir.
The associate minister unveiled the church’s new tithing campaign slogan last Sunday: “I Upped My Pledge - Up Yours.”
What’s your take?
hahaha 
that was hilarious Magius. where did you get that? I am going to have to print that out and show that to my friends. I just wonder how some of those slipped by.
I’m glad you enjoyed them. At first I thought I would post it in my Optimism and laughter thread, but I thought it is more relevant to religion so I posted it here as comic relief within serious discussion. I don’t remember where I got it, I believe my ex-girlfriend once sent it to me a long time ago. I happened to be going through some of my old files and fell upon it, thought it relevant, so I posted it.