Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a moral

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Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a moral

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:46 pm

Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a moral sense; than homophobes?

Gays place love above sex, while homophobes place sex above love.

Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you, and hope you get closer to love and Jesus someday.

Gayness is nature, not nurture. Nature and the Jesus archetype are showing us how to love more deeply.

This is a Gnostic Christian view and is in full accord with my Mother Goddess, so it must be true.

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Meno_ » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:13 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a moral sense; than homophobes?

Gays place love above sex, while homophobes place sex above love.

Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you, and hope you get closer to love and Jesus someday.

Gayness is nature, not nurture. Nature and the Jesus archetype are showing us how to love more deeply.

This is a Gnostic Christian view and is in full accord with my Mother Goddess, so it must be true.

Regards,
DL



I would comment that sex and love are so convoluted , that a simple determination of where love starts and sex.begins as a prime motivator for relationships. Like Plato said , it's a matter of evolution, and not at all parallel to Darwin, in terms purely of materialistic and genetic considerations. It is a vehicle by which many factors play into, and it involves through primary and secondary variations .

But the primary motive, mostly hidden, is love, and being with another. Freud also coincides the various stages of development, and allegedly he was able to overcome his own homosexuality, at a time when absolute moralistic principles ruled sexual orientation..
But to try configure which position is arguably a better moral position , is difficult, because there are myriad of sub-intervening positions which develop their own rationale.
A person who is happy with engaging with other men, can argue for that position , while the contrary can develop an opposing thesis.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a moral sense; than homophobes?

Gays place love above sex, while homophobes place sex above love.

Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you, and hope you get closer to love and Jesus someday.

Gayness is nature, not nurture. Nature and the Jesus archetype are showing us how to love more deeply.

This is a Gnostic Christian view and is in full accord with my Mother Goddess, so it must be true.

Regards,
DL



I would comment that sex and love are so convoluted , that a simple determination of where love starts and sex.begins as a prime motivator for relationships. Like Plato said , it's a matter of evolution, and not at all parallel to Darwin, in terms purely of materialistic and genetic considerations. It is a vehicle by which many factors play into, and it involves through primary and secondary variations .

But the primary motive, mostly hidden, is love, and being with another. Freud also coincides the various stages of development, and allegedly he was able to overcome his own homosexuality, at a time when absolute moralistic principles ruled sexual orientation..
But to try configure which position is arguably a better moral position , is difficult, because there are myriad of sub-intervening positions which develop their own rationale.
A person who is happy with engaging with other men, can argue for that position , while the contrary can develop an opposing thesis.


No argument on this and is why I decided to put love ahead of sex.

What have you decided in terms of the morality of discrimination against gays for just being gays?

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Meno_ » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:57 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Meno_ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a moral sense; than homophobes?

Gays place love above sex, while homophobes place sex above love.

Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you, and hope you get closer to love and Jesus someday.

Gayness is nature, not nurture. Nature and the Jesus archetype are showing us how to love more deeply.

This is a Gnostic Christian view and is in full accord with my Mother Goddess, so it must be true.

Regards,
DL



I would comment that sex and love are so convoluted , that a simple determination of where love starts and sex.begins as a prime motivator for relationships. Like Plato said , it's a matter of evolution, and not at all parallel to Darwin, in terms purely of materialistic and genetic considerations. It is a vehicle by which many factors play into, and it involves through primary and secondary variations .

But the primary motive, mostly hidden, is love, and being with another. Freud also coincides the various stages of development, and allegedly he was able to overcome his own homosexuality, at a time when absolute moralistic principles ruled sexual orientation..
But to try configure which position is arguably a better moral position , is difficult, because there are myriad of sub-intervening positions which develop their own rationale.
A person who is happy with engaging with other men, can argue for that position , while the contrary can develop an opposing thesis.


No argument on this and is why I decided to put love ahead of sex.

What have you decided in terms of the morality of discrimination against gays for just being gays?

Regards
DL



I haven't decided on that, but then both positions mimic current morals.Any hate is descipable , but morally justified positions are reprehensible only to the degree that they are not determined from the current standard.
You can't hold a sailor hating another sailor because all others would castigate him if he did not participate in their view. He is determined, even if he is in bad faith , and he himself is closeted. J Edgar Hoover prosecuted gays indiscriminately, although he himself had a gay lover. Could anyone come out, in the 1950' s? Nowedays sexually divisive hate crime is far less, its safe to say, but juveniles who can't deal with it are more prone to be more explicit sue to their inner struggles , rather then issues with belonging, to their comrades. It is more a self prescribed search for identity in most part, and that is why internet crime is left anynomous.
Before 'Stonewall' , repression. did not allow such inner directed soul searching, the way to go was.pretty much prescribed down the line.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:14 pm

Meno_ wrote:
No argument on this and is why I decided to put love ahead of sex.

What have you decided in terms of the morality of discrimination against gays for just being gays?

Regards
DL



I haven't decided on that, but then both positions mimic current morals.Any hate is descipable , but morally justified positions are reprehensible only to the degree that they are not determined from the current standard.[/quote]

This does not make sense to me but if you are an adult and have not decided that discrimination and denigration of anyone without a just cause is evil, then I doubt that would know where to start to teach you decent morals.

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Meno_ » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:49 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Meno_ wrote:
No argument on this and is why I decided to put love ahead of sex.

What have you decided in terms of the morality of discrimination against gays for just being gays?

Regards
DL



I haven't decided on that, but then both positions mimic current morals.Any hate is descipable , but morally justified positions are reprehensible only to the degree that they are not determined from the current standard.


This does not make sense to me but if you are an adult and have not decided that discrimination and denigration of anyone without a just cause is evil, then I doubt that would know where to start to teach you decent morals.

Regards
DL[/quote]

Depends on intentionality, there is a big difference difference between juvenile and adult intentions to harm.

Education is very appropriate to mention here. Juviniles learn from their parents and then reinforced by their piers.
reducation entails vastly more difficult processes, especially as some of those are based by through loving, religious sources.

the combination of pier pressure and formal pafental guidance may create a confusion between love and sex, especially among the young, but that does not necessarily mean that moral re-education is impossible.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:03 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Gays place love above sex, while homophobes place sex above love.
I'd need to see some kind of research on this. Gay men are men, and men often put sex before love.

Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.
I don't think we can speak for Jesus on homosexuality, unless you are claiming you've had religious experiences relating to Jesus.

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you,
What? Gays (all) love homophobes? I don't think so. I don't think you can speak for gays.

Maybe this post is some kind of parody, the humor of which escapes me.

This is a Gnostic Christian view and is in full accord with my Mother Goddess, so it must be true.


Well, at least there's nothing supernatural here or the language would be different.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:41 pm

Meno_ wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Meno_ wrote:
No argument on this and is why I decided to put love ahead of sex.

What have you decided in terms of the morality of discrimination against gays for just being gays?

Regards
DL



I haven't decided on that, but then both positions mimic current morals.Any hate is descipable , but morally justified positions are reprehensible only to the degree that they are not determined from the current standard.


This does not make sense to me but if you are an adult and have not decided that discrimination and denigration of anyone without a just cause is evil, then I doubt that would know where to start to teach you decent morals.

Regards
DL


Depends on intentionality, there is a big difference difference between juvenile and adult intentions to harm.

Education is very appropriate to mention here. Juviniles learn from their parents and then reinforced by their piers.
reducation entails vastly more difficult processes, especially as some of those are based by through loving, religious sources.

the combination of pier pressure and formal pafental guidance may create a confusion between love and sex, especially among the young, but that does not necessarily mean that moral re-education is impossible.[/quote]

Education is good. Lack of indoctrination into hating without a just cause by religions would be better.

Better to kill an illness at the source than to try to save infected children and adults later.

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:45 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Gays place love above sex, while homophobes place sex above love.
I'd need to see some kind of research on this. Gay men are men, and men often put sex before love.

Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.
I don't think we can speak for Jesus on homosexuality, unless you are claiming you've had religious experiences relating to Jesus.

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you,
What? Gays (all) love homophobes? I don't think so. I don't think you can speak for gays.

Maybe this post is some kind of parody, the humor of which escapes me.

This is a Gnostic Christian view and is in full accord with my Mother Goddess, so it must be true.


Well, at least there's nothing supernatural here or the language would be different.


Jesus would not stone a fornicator and that is analogous to having a gay person in front of him.

If you cannot see that obvious correlation then ----

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:12 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Jesus would say that gays are closer to his heart than homophobes, and this shows a higher moral sense in Gays.
I don't think we can speak for Jesus on homosexuality, unless you are claiming you've had religious experiences relating to Jesus.

Jesus would not stone a fornicator and that is analogous to having a gay person in front of him.

A fornicator has sex out of marriage and presumably she had heterosexual sex. Jesus said he who is without sin, throw the first stone. IOW he who is not like her also a sinner, which presumes that adultery is a sin. And also that she should sin no more. Which means he considered her a sinner for having been an adulterer. So in your own analogy homosexuality is sinning. I don't believe homosexuality is a sin, but your analogy asserts it. Further we have no reason to believe that Jesus was saying it was ok to do what she did, nor do we have any reason to believe that he decided the OT was wrong about homosexuality.

And beyond that, your analogy says nothing about her being closer to his heart than the people who accused her. They were sinners, presumably he would forgive them also. Why doesn't your analogy extend to other sins, like judging and being angry?

We don't know what Jesus thought about homosexuality. You don't just get to put words in his mouth, unless you are making a psychic claim, and an interesting one since you are reading a dead man's mind.

You don't know if he would think homophobes or homosexuals were closer or further from his heart.


If you cannot see that obvious correlation then ----

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DL
What you think not saying the insult right out isn't a sin in your heart?

And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.


You just make stuff up, these are claims to supernatural powers on your part.

And I notice you did not even try to defend even more ridiculous statements like....

I am not gay, but hey, like Jesus; I can tell you homophobes that gays (all) still love you,
That's just absurd.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:43 pm

K T

Call it artistic liberty.

"I don't think we can speak for Jesus on homosexuality,"

If the scribes can put words into Jesus' mouth, many years after his death, then so can I.

Reciprocity is fair play.

Jesus did not stone a woman for a sex sin so it logically follows that he would not stone gays either.

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:59 pm

Greatest I am wrote:K T

Call it artistic liberty.
Thanks, I can live with your comments in that context. I still disagree or better put see no good reason to agree. I think it's assuming too much, but taken as in the direction of admitted to be polemic, it doesn't grate.

"I don't think we can speak for Jesus on homosexuality,"

If the scribes can put words into Jesus' mouth, many years after his death, then so can I.
Well, sure. Though I think that works best in context where it's just you and the scribes. So much of life is getting distorted information from opposing sides. The republicans lie about X and then the dems do. Fair enough between them, but not much use to the rest of us.


Jesus did not stone a woman for a sex sin so it logically follows that he would not stone gays either.
Sure, I doubt he would have stones anyone. Though he might have wanted gays to stop being gay, who knows. A lot of very saavy masters of all sorts of traditions can end up having serious flaws, and Jesus came out of a specific culture. Perhaps he managed to eliminate all traces of oppressive crap in himself, though I doubt it, but he need not have and I won't assume it. I think assuming everything was perfect about Jesus is just an assumption and has done damage. Of course, I think there are some problems even with what we are told his spirituality was, but that's another topic.

You've said somewhere you are battling or waging a spiritual war or something of that nature. Fine. But since your posts are coming at people who are all over the belief system spectrum, when you come swinging a sword and the person is not from, say, the homosexual hating community, the sword is the wrong tool.

Find a homophobe using the Bible to justify themselves, by all means, take out the sword.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:07 pm

I can go on about Jesus as presented.

As I stated in a recent post, accepting prayer forever is greed.

The whole point of evolution is to collapse resource dependency, not maintain it.

The Bible is very clear that Jesus was not only about prayer, but about perpetual prayer.

The same is true of marriage, a joke of a concept.

You can drop the burden and untruths that are Jesus and the Bible.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:K T

Call it artistic liberty.
Thanks, I can live with your comments in that context. I still disagree or better put see no good reason to agree. I think it's assuming too much, but taken as in the direction of admitted to be polemic, it doesn't grate.

"I don't think we can speak for Jesus on homosexuality,"

If the scribes can put words into Jesus' mouth, many years after his death, then so can I.
Well, sure. Though I think that works best in context where it's just you and the scribes. So much of life is getting distorted information from opposing sides. The republicans lie about X and then the dems do. Fair enough between them, but not much use to the rest of us.


Jesus did not stone a woman for a sex sin so it logically follows that he would not stone gays either.
Sure, I doubt he would have stones anyone. Though he might have wanted gays to stop being gay, who knows. A lot of very saavy masters of all sorts of traditions can end up having serious flaws, and Jesus came out of a specific culture. Perhaps he managed to eliminate all traces of oppressive crap in himself, though I doubt it, but he need not have and I won't assume it. I think assuming everything was perfect about Jesus is just an assumption and has done damage. Of course, I think there are some problems even with what we are told his spirituality was, but that's another topic.

You've said somewhere you are battling or waging a spiritual war or something of that nature. Fine. But since your posts are coming at people who are all over the belief system spectrum, when you come swinging a sword and the person is not from, say, the homosexual hating community, the sword is the wrong tool.

Find a homophobe using the Bible to justify themselves, by all means, take out the sword.


My sword is two sided I cut with one side and praise with the other.

All of us, who have what it takes, should be fighting a spiritual until we win. The weaker of us are counting on us.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:39 pm

Ecmandu wrote:I can go on about Jesus as presented.

As I stated in a recent post, accepting prayer forever is greed.

The whole point of evolution is to collapse resource dependency, not maintain it.

The Bible is very clear that Jesus was not only about prayer, but about perpetual prayer.

The same is true of marriage, a joke of a concept.

You can drop the burden and untruths that are Jesus and the Bible.


I wish I could, but the belief in one of the archetypal Jesus' is what is causing the problem.

That and lying preachers which are basically all who preach for a supernatural, and thus fictitious, god.

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Meno_ » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:36 am

Getting all worked up about how Jesuaay have spoken about homosexuality is somewhat of a waste of time. There are suggestion s out there there, credible or not, that Jesus had a homoerotic feeling for St. John, his favorite disciple.
Before You go ah and huh? No lead should be left unturned, including that of being human just human.
The middle, ages, as usual plays havoc with immorality through mysticism.
In not saying , but Jesus did ostensibly travel through India on the silk road.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:24 am

Greatest I am wrote:My sword is two sided I cut with one side and praise with the other.
Who needs a sword to praise? Even a metaphorical one. But, in any case, my point was that if you distort because they distort that may be fine in relation to them, your enemy, but not so useful in relation to those who are not.

All of us, who have what it takes, should be fighting a spiritual until we win. The weaker of us are counting on us.
The weaker don't need more distortion, even if the goal is a good one.

If you think you should live by the Golden Rule, change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.
If we want to end brainwashing, we might nto want to make up stuff, even if we think it is balancing what other people make up.

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”
I didn't argue you should do nothing, so this quote is not relevant.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:36 pm

Meno_ wrote:Getting all worked up about how Jesuaay have spoken about homosexuality is somewhat of a waste of time. There are suggestion s out there there, credible or not, that Jesus had a homoerotic feeling for St. John, his favorite disciple.
Before You go ah and huh? No lead should be left unturned, including that of being human just human.
The middle, ages, as usual plays havoc with immorality through mysticism.
In not saying , but Jesus did ostensibly travel through India on the silk road.


I do not believe in a real miracle working Jesus and invoke his ways to irritate homophobes who have a small amount of conscience left.

I agree that one of the Jesus archetypes in the bible is a mystic.

He is the one Gnostic Christians quote and the one that the lying preachers never quote.

Here is how that mystical Jesus talks.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:38 pm

Karpel Tunnel,

But since your posts are coming at people who are all over the belief system spectrum, when you come swinging a sword and the person is not from, say, the homosexual hating community, the sword is the wrong tool.


My post here just might be irrelevant but I was going to ask you why one would even need a tool here in this regard?

What would the proper tool be in this case, Karpel Tunnel, if you saw one as being needed?
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:01 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:Karpel Tunnel,

But since your posts are coming at people who are all over the belief system spectrum, when you come swinging a sword and the person is not from, say, the homosexual hating community, the sword is the wrong tool.


My post here just might be irrelevant but I was going to ask you why one would even need a tool here in this regard?

What would the proper tool be in this case, Karpel Tunnel, if you saw one as being needed?
Well, he has said something like he is in a spiritual battle. He is waging a kind of argumentative war with the people he sees as bad, beleivers in the supernatural, especially theists who do. OK, if they sling something angry using the Bible to back it up, I can see him slinging somethign angry using the Bible. If they oversimplify, I can understand him oversimplifying in return. I am not sure that's the best strategy, but I get that. I understand the motivation and I am less concerned about the direct immediate consequences of his polemic. However if he is posting to a mixed group, which he is here, I think it is bad policy to mislead people about what he knows, what the Bible means and include strategies intended as a response to or weapon against the kinds of theists he is at war with.

All arguments use tools. And generally a variety. I don't know which one would be appropriate when posting to a mixed group.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:50 pm

Karpel Tunnel,

All arguments use tools. And generally a variety. I don't know which one would be appropriate when posting to a mixed group.


I am thinking of one right now, especially when posting to a mixed group, perhaps the most important one, though some may not think of it as a tool, per se. It begins with the letter "c".

Sometimes arguing about religion, religious beliefs and one's own subjective thinking can be like spitting into the wind. One has to be really open-minded to want to or to allow their thinking to be changed or at least to want to listen to what the other guy has to say. Do we start out with open minds or with steel traps?

But the "c" word is a good beginning and ending to any argument and can lead to good things happening...hopefully.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:10 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Karpel Tunnel,

All arguments use tools. And generally a variety. I don't know which one would be appropriate when posting to a mixed group.


I am thinking of one right now, especially when posting to a mixed group, perhaps the most important one, though some may not think of it as a tool, per se. It begins with the letter "c".

Sometimes arguing about religion, religious beliefs and one's own subjective thinking can be like spitting into the wind. One has to be really open-minded to want to or to allow their thinking to be changed or at least to want to listen to what the other guy has to say. Do we start out with open minds or with steel traps?

But the "c" word is a good beginning and ending to any argument and can lead to good things happening...hopefully.
I am not sure what the c word is. I am not sure one needs an open mind. I was reacting to both Greatest tone, which can be insulting, and then also that he feels that it is ok to use propaganda since 'they' do. But since we are not all they, here, using propaganda just add more noise to the signal to noise ratio.
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Re: Are members of the gay community better adjusted, in a m

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:25 pm

Karpel Tunnel,

I am not sure what the c word is.


Civility. :evilfun:

I am not sure one needs an open mind

Well, at least a partially open mind. I was not necessarily speaking about religion and everything which seems to count for truth and fact because someone believes that their interpretation is the right or only one that matters. True, though, there are times when what we read makes us realize that we may not even need to use our minds to digest it.

I was reacting to both Greatest tone, which can be insulting,


Well, for that I might use a word which begins with "h" lol. People maintain their beliefs so adamantly for whatever reason that there is just no room sometimes for a mind change.

and then also that he feels that it is ok to use propaganda since 'they' do.


The way that I look at is that that is a tool which probably sends us away from getting at the truth.
I am asking a question here though. Do you think that it can be effective?
I suppose that it can be with people who do not want to take the time to think things out at all, people who are willing to adopt another's way of thinking so easily. Propaganda can be a powerful took as history has shown.


But since we are not all they, here, using propaganda just add more noise to the signal to noise ratio.


I wonder how many empty spaces might be left, how many less pages filled up here, if we only really focused on what we truly believed and thought? I suppose things would remain the same.
Belief is a really powerful thing, isn't it?
I read some of the things in the Religion forum and I feel like I am at times experiencing the Tower of Babel.
"Look closely. The beautiful may be small."


"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe, the oftener and more steadily we reflect on them: the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me."


“Whereas the beautiful is limited, the sublime is limitless, so that the mind in the presence of the sublime, attempting to imagine what it cannot, has pain in the failure but pleasure in contemplating the immensity of the attempt.”

Immanuel Kant
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