Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:59 pm

The American people deserve to cut the bullshit.

We deserve and have the Right to face this "anonymous whistleblower" accuser. State the crime, state the accusation, and do it publicly, before the Nation. Or you have no case, Period. That's the end of it. Everything else is a waste of our time, money, energy, and moral legitimacy. Everything more, is an assault and insult to our nation, our people, our way-of-life, and our government.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:01 pm

Carleas wrote:The proceedings now are a 'trial' in the same way that someone can be 'tried in the press', i.e. metaphorically. That's basically what's happening now: Democrats are trying to move public opinion by airing as much of the evidence in as much detail as possible for as long as possible to convince the public, so that when the trial starts in the Senate, public pressure will be on Republican Senators to remove Trump from office.

Congress has Rights to process.

Democrats have demonstrated no Right to process. This is unprecedented in the method of Impeachment. No impeachment, ever before, has been this blatantly corrupt.


There are countless severe ramifications to follow this abuse of power and corruption. You seem to be missing the bigger picture.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:11 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Or you have no case, Period.

In what sense? There are lots of other witnesses, there's a written account of the call, there are transcripts and other documents that can be subpoenaed. The Whistleblower's role at this point is almost zero, everything else is plenty.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Democrats have demonstrated no Right to process.

What do you mean by this? Be explicit.
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi
 
Posts: 5924
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:19 pm

Carleas wrote:In what sense? There are lots of other witnesses, there's a written account of the call, there are transcripts and other documents that can be subpoenaed. The Whistleblower's role at this point is almost zero, everything else is plenty.

That's laughable. The "star witnesses" were an embarrassment. The whole premise from the beginning, months ago, has been the hypothetical "whistleblower".


Carleas wrote:What do you mean by this? Be explicit.

Democrats have shutout the Republicans and public from the start. For the past 3 months, the public, the Republicans, all of us, have a right to know the basis of impeachment Accusations. There have been NONE, or worse, any hinted at or implied, is shifted around and changed. Thus, Democrats have no case. They are starting with a conclusion, and trying to build their premises and case to match. They were ordered to 'impeach', but moved forward without substance.

This impeachment can be compared to all previous presidential impeachments, and the merit compared. Clinton got a blowjob from a Staff aide, secretary, and bald-face lied to the US people. What has Trump done, anything comparable to this??? Not even close.


It's time the Democrats are investigated, impeached, and corruption charges pointed at them.

Trump should ask all foreign nations to investigate the Democrats. The swamp needs drained, from without, if not from within.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:32 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:The whole premise from the beginning, months ago, has been the hypothetical "whistleblower".

The reason for the investigation was a credible allegation of wrongdoing. The reason for the impeachment is the evidence that the investigation has turned up.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Democrats have shutout the Republicans and public from the start.

Republicans have been in every closed-door hearing, and public hearings are currently taking place.
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi
 
Posts: 5924
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Meno_ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:03 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:
Carleas wrote:In what sense? There are lots of other witnesses, there's a written account of the call, there are transcripts and other documents that can be subpoenaed. The Whistleblower's role at this point is almost zero, everything else is plenty.

That's laughable. The "star witnesses" were an embarrassment. The whole premise from the beginning, months ago, has been the hypothetical "whistleblower".


Carleas wrote:What do you mean by this? Be explicit.

Democrats have shutout the Republicans and public from the start. For the past 3 months, the public, the Republicans, all of us, have a right to know the basis of impeachment Accusations. There have been NONE, or worse, any hinted at or implied, is shifted around and changed. Thus, Democrats have no case. They are starting with a conclusion, and trying to build their premises and case to match. They were ordered to 'impeach', but moved forward without substance.

This impeachment can be compared to all previous presidential impeachments, and the merit compared. Clinton got a blowjob from a Staff aide, secretary, and bald-face lied to the US people. What has Trump done, anything comparable to this??? Not even close.


It's time the Democrats are investigated, impeached, and corruption charges pointed at them.

Trump should ask all foreign nations to investigate the Democrats. The swamp needs drained, from without, if not from within.



Ok. But animousity, or the need to uncover is a sign of diminishing reliance for an intelligent appraisal of verifiability.

This impeachment is about and chaired by the head of the intelligence committee, and this factor I believe was pointed out by a commentator who compared the 3 impeachment of US history.

This re affirms the importance of opinion approval of these open hearing. against all others.


Would You consider this within a modicum of possibility?



"Clinton got a blowjob from a Staff aide, secretary, and bald-face lied to the US people. What has Trump done, anything comparable to this??? Not even close."


Stormy Daniels



In addition to the whistle blower-



A co-counsel for the whistleblower has told USA TODAY that death threats have been directed at his client and attorneys.

People outside the Trump administration, including members of Congress and the public, are likely covered by the First Amendment if they name the person, though civil law guards against libel and slander. 

The whistleblower needs to come before Congress as a material witness because he worked for Joe Biden at the same time Hunter Biden was getting money from corrupt oligarchs," Paul said as the president stood nearby. "I say tonight to the media, do your job and print his name."

Paul says he knows the name of the whistle blower, but the media is reluctant on threats of criminal charges being filed against them.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5590
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:49 pm

I still refuse to believe people here are uninformed enough to actually believe this is legal.

"AOC: Impeachment ‘About Preventing a Potentially Disastrous Outcome from Occurring Next Year’"

This is all it is about. Trying to prevent democracy from doing its work. Porn stars are lifted up into heaven just because they will insult the president and the intellectual class obediently does their footwork.

Possibly in the cosmic scheme, Trump is better, more than the US deserves - now I fear it will get what it really deserves.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
- Thucydides
Image
BTL
User avatar
Fixed Cross
Doric Usurper
 
Posts: 9312
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 am
Location: the black ships

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:49 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Trying to prevent democracy from doing its work.

Both parties are claiming they are acting on behalf of democracy, because both see that democracy sells. But neither is fully committed to democracy, and that is not wrong in itself. We need to look at the ways in which they are undermining democracy.

Impeachment is absolutely anti-democratic. That's it's purpose. The Constitution does not create a direct democracy, and we shouldn't expect it to. The Constitution provides that an elected official can be removed from office and barred from ever holding elected office again. That is incompatible with a simple democracy in which the current whims of the people control. Rather, the goal was to create a checked democracy, so that a version of the people's will, filtered by deliberation and encumbered to resist their rapidly changing passions. Where the people think they want a strong-man authoritarian who uses his office to undermine his political rivals, the Constitution says that democracy should not prevail. The Democrats are operating within both the letter and spirit of the Constitution.

(And note that the above would hold even if it weren't the case that Trump was elected by a similar anti-democratic Constitutional design, namely that he won the presidency despite receiving neither a majority nor a plurality of votes.)
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi
 
Posts: 5924
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:44 pm

"
Both parties are claiming they are acting on behalf of democracy, because both see that democracy sells. "

Haha didn't I say it? Didn't I call it?

"At the end of the days, aren't we just two peas of the same pod?"

When it's not that it's "impartial people."

Anything not to have to defend their position. Which is understandable, it is a shit position.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:56 pm

Meno_ wrote:Stormy Daniels

1. Before Presidency, Not in the Oval Office, Not a Staffer
2. Trump didn't lie about it, in a televised address, to the whole nation
3. Trump is honest about his philandering, compared to Clinton, who was lied, embarrassed, and shamed for it
4. Trump had dozens of super-models around him -- he is not easily corrupted by sex or money, as corrupt Washington Democrats show that they are (Biden and son)
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:58 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I still refuse to believe people here are uninformed enough to actually believe this is legal.

"AOC: Impeachment ‘About Preventing a Potentially Disastrous Outcome from Occurring Next Year’"

This is all it is about. Trying to prevent democracy from doing its work. Porn stars are lifted up into heaven just because they will insult the president and the intellectual class obediently does their footwork.

Possibly in the cosmic scheme, Trump is better, more than the US deserves - now I fear it will get what it really deserves.

That's the appalling irony here. The "Democratic" party is trying to stop Democracy.

This whole system is about to be flipped upside-down, if these Demonrats think they can get away with this without paying a huge penalty.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Carleas wrote:Both parties are claiming they are acting on behalf of democracy, because both see that democracy sells. But neither is fully committed to democracy, and that is not wrong in itself. We need to look at the ways in which they are undermining democracy.

Impeachment is absolutely anti-democratic. That's it's purpose. The Constitution does not create a direct democracy, and we shouldn't expect it to. The Constitution provides that an elected official can be removed from office and barred from ever holding elected office again. That is incompatible with a simple democracy in which the current whims of the people control. Rather, the goal was to create a checked democracy, so that a version of the people's will, filtered by deliberation and encumbered to resist their rapidly changing passions. Where the people think they want a strong-man authoritarian who uses his office to undermine his political rivals, the Constitution says that democracy should not prevail. The Democrats are operating within both the letter and spirit of the Constitution.

(And note that the above would hold even if it weren't the case that Trump was elected by a similar anti-democratic Constitutional design, namely that he won the presidency despite receiving neither a majority nor a plurality of votes.)

No, you're wrong.

You cannot Impeach a President who has committed no crime. And that is what Demonrats are trying to do, because they know they stand no chance in a fair competition. That's literally the only reason. This is proved further by the case that, these mentally ill "leaders", have been trying to impeach Trump from Day One. NO COLLUSION, stick that in your head, Carleas. NO COLLUSION. And now, even now and especially now, NO QUID PRO QUO, NO BRIBERY, NOTHING. Demonrats literally have NOTHING. Trump drains the swamp, and next Biden is going to be flushed for his corruption in Ukraine.

Democracy is finished, do you not understand nor see this? You have your blinders on? These crazy looney-liberal-leftists are destroying Democracy, the Constitution, the Republic, and America.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:17 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:You cannot Impeach a President who has committed no crime.

Solid point, Urwrong, but how do we decide if there's a [high] crime? Maybe if we had a system where one house formally alleges that there has been a [high] crime, and then the other house holds a trial to see if there has been. We could even have the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court oversee the trial. I'm not sure what to call this process, something like "accusing and kicking-out-of-office", but more formal and old-timey. And it's really important, we should put it in the document that establishes the supreme law of the land.
User Control Panel > Board preference > Edit display options > Display signatures: No.
Carleas
Magister Ludi
 
Posts: 5924
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:10 pm
Location: Washington DC, USA

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:59 pm

Nobody has mentioned or hinted that "you shouldn't be able to impeach". But when you try to impeach, with no evidence, and based on hearsay, then it should fail, and I believe it will. I mean, everybody already knew from the start the way this would go between the House and Senate. House votes in favor, Democratic House votes yes, Republican Senate votes no. But the larger-point is, Democrats have been trying to impeach from the start.

From the Big Picture, all this does is show weakness in the Democratic party. They don't have a strong candidate or leadership. And I'm pretty confident there will be lots of negative blowback. What Democrats should have done from the beginning, is come together as a Party, do some real soul-searching, and make solid decisions on what the Democratic party will be and represent in the next 20 years. I'm almost certain, they don't know, the public doesn't know, and the Democrats are now panicking based on this lack of leadership. Furthermore, this Anti-Establishment sentiment is becoming a third type of unexpected problem. The Bush family, and the Clinton family, Dynasties, are overthrown. So traditionalists are removed. Nobody saw or expected Trump's election and success.

Democrats need to take 5 or 10 steps back, decide what their Party represents. Because, who the fuck knows? I want to know, though, does it involve teaching 5-year-old kids about Transexuality? Because if it does, then I'm out. And if they have a more reasonable position, I'll hear it.


Here's another thing that pisses me off. The Democrats used to represent the "Anti-war" position. So why, the fuck, does it take Trump to pull troops out of the Middle East, and when he does it, the Liberal-Left-Democrats get mad and say "he's conceding to Russia"? Are you fucking kidding me? Who would have thought these spinless Liberal fucks, would step to Neo-Cons, when their bottom-line caves? They have no backbone. They have no ethics or morals.

If Democrats aren't going to be Anti-War, then fuck em. It takes a Republican to Stop wars. Who would have thought such a thing could happen, after Bush?

The Democrats are proving, day-to-day now, they have no real principles anymore. And they will sell their party's values, for any sign or hope of winning an election. These short-term gains, will be destroyed by long-term losses. I think the American public is smart and savvy enough, at least, to see it for what it is. I expect a lot of Democratic concessions of House seats by 2022.


Final note, I want a Third-Party anyway, and I think it's more imminent and necessary than ever before. Now is the time for Independent politicians, parties, and a more 'Centrist' mindset. Not a "Green Party" or anything stupid like that, but a group of politicians who can actually represent Middle America, without needing to imbibe the Democrat or Republican poison.
Urwrongx1000
Philosopher
 
Posts: 2209
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:06 pm

I'm afeaid its creepier than spinlesness. That goes for their supporters, not the party.

Weirdly, since the last year of Obama, the Democrats have become the party of war with Russia for some unfathomable reason. Seems everybody forgot that. We literally almost did WW3.
User avatar
Pedro I Rengel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:55 pm

Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Meno_ » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:23 pm

Carleas wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:You cannot Impeach a President who has committed no crime.

Solid point, Urwrong, but how do we decide if there's a [high] crime? Maybe if we had a system where one house formally alleges that there has been a [high] crime, and then the other house holds a trial to see if there has been. We could even have the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court oversee the trial. I'm not sure what to call this process, something like "accusing and kicking-out-of-office", but more formal and old-timey. And it's really important, we should put it in the document that establishes the supreme law of the land.



The final arbiter again, appears to be the dollars and cents of taxpayers money's that is spent toward a creditable agency.

However, how substantiable is, the argument that dollars and cents can account for the subjective sentiments of people on the front line?

Is not sentiment preferable to an account that measures it?

Such measurements are not reductive to a stable measure of value, for they can not be incrementally be axxirate5, but arw gross measurements of social aspirations and hopes?

Does ten billion lost is any indications of.future regional and National aspirations cos. a vis the focus necessary on the frontal engagement?

How backwardly analyzed can that be?

The same backwardness got Nixon out of office.
Meno_
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5590
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Mysterium Tremendum

Previous

Return to Current Events



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Zero_Sum