Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:15 pm

While I hate republicans I also hate democrats equally. Likewise I don't like Donald Trump either.

With that being said I don't think there is any grounds to impeach Donald Trump where all of this is basically Banana Republic theatrics by the democrats because the trade war isn't going so well for them as they receive a lot of funding by the communist Chinese. I think this is the biggest reason for the divide between democrats against the republican party and Donald Trump. The trade war is stopping the financial gravy train enjoyed by the democrats with the Chinese concerning all kinds of corporate kickbacks.

If the democrats succeed they will only divide this nation further and who knows how the republican, libertarian, or constitutional gun toting militia men might react with such a brazen power play.

On the plus side this might collapse the nation even faster where I'm all for it. Lets get everybody fighting and killing each other. :evilfun:

For now I take a neutral position where I'm a bemused observer watching this latest national theatrics.

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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:40 pm

Let us assume the democrats succeed for a moment, how would they control the political backlash amid a nation that is one the verge of economic collapse?

Also I wonder what they're thinking really, do they really want a democratic president in power when this economic collapse occurs? What exactly is the political stratagem of all this? :lol: By keeping him in office they could just blame the republicans for the economic crash not that it would matter all that much because once it occurs both political parties are going to lose control of the nation regardless pretty quickly.

Whatever man.... :evilfun: :lol:

This shit is just too funny. :mrgreen:
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:43 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:I don't think there is any grounds to impeach Donald Trump

Say more on this. What would you consider "grounds to impeach"?

Impeachment is effectively discretionary, the House can vote to impeach and the Senate can vote to remove for any reason that moves them. Whether something qualifies as "high crimes and misdemeanors" is nonjusticiable, so if the House and Senate vote to impeach and remove, there's no body that can review that decision.

Furthermore, the founders contemplated the use of the impeachment power for what today seem like pretty small offenses. Madison himself argued that the impeachment power would be used as a check on abuse of the pardon power, in which case Trump's pardon of Arpaio is an impeachable offense by Madison's lights.

The bar for impeachment is quite a bit lower than it might seem. It's hard to get a super majority in Senate, given the polarization of our politics and the inevitable blowback on everyone, but Trump has done a dozen things which impartial people agree are bad for the country, bad for the office, and which a president shouldn't do. Any one of those is an impeachable offense.

Zero_Sum wrote:Let us assume the democrats succeed for a moment, how would they control the political backlash amid a nation that is one the verge of economic collapse?

I think the backlash would go the other way. Nixon was devestating for Republicans, and a second removal of a Republican president would make them seem like the party of criminals and corruption. That doesn't sell. Trump is already gutting the Republican base, and a successful removal will cause it to collapse entirely. Even when people disagree with the law and think the process is unfair, a conviction still carries a lot of implicit weight in how people see each other. People believe in spite of themselves that being a convicted criminal means being tainted. Even up to his removal, Nixon had substantial support among Republicans. But almost no one defends him any more; history is written with him cast as villain.

You might be right that some armed people would react in the short term, but their influence is much less than you imagine. The commanders of the armed forces are not fans of Trump, and though the rank and file are, without a Trump loyalist commander, the armed forces will continue to follow orders from the legitimate head of state, and any red state militia is easily outmatched by the actual military; the Second Amendment has effectively failed, thank god.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:53 pm

Carleas wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:I don't think there is any grounds to impeach Donald Trump

Say more on this. What would you consider "grounds to impeach"?

Impeachment is effectively discretionary, the House can vote to impeach and the Senate can vote to remove for any reason that moves them. Whether something qualifies as "high crimes and misdemeanors" is nonjusticiable, so if the House and Senate vote to impeach and remove, there's no body that can review that decision.

Furthermore, the founders contemplated the use of the impeachment power for what today seem like pretty small offenses. Madison himself argued that the impeachment power would be used as a check on abuse of the pardon power, in which case Trump's pardon of Arpaio is an impeachable offense by Madison's lights.

The bar for impeachment is quite a bit lower than it might seem. It's hard to get a super majority in Senate, given the polarization of our politics and the inevitable blowback on everyone, but Trump has done a dozen things which impartial people agree are bad for the country, bad for the office, and which a president shouldn't do. Any one of those is an impeachable offense.

Zero_Sum wrote:Let us assume the democrats succeed for a moment, how would they control the political backlash amid a nation that is one the verge of economic collapse?

I think the backlash would go the other way. Nixon was devestating for Republicans, and a second removal of a Republican president would make them seem like the party of criminals and corruption. That doesn't sell. Trump is already gutting the Republican base, and a successful removal will cause it to collapse entirely. Even when people disagree with the law and think the process is unfair, a conviction still carries a lot of implicit weight in how people see each other. People believe in spite of themselves that being a convicted criminal means being tainted. Even up to his removal, Nixon had substantial support among Republicans. But almost no one defends him any more; history is written with him cast as villain.

You might be right that some armed people would react in the short term, but their influence is much less than you imagine. The commanders of the armed forces are not fans of Trump, and though the rank and file are, without a Trump loyalist commander, the armed forces will continue to follow orders from the legitimate head of state, and any red state militia is easily outmatched by the actual military; the Second Amendment has effectively failed, thank god.


There are a lot of Trump supporters in the military currently and that are ex military veterans. Also in law enforcement as I know a couple of sheriffs locally here and they're all Trump supporters. I don't think you've thought that through all that much.

But hey, if you democrats want to create a much bigger divide and conflict in this country which will essentially guarantee it collapses even faster I won't stand in your way. You must remember that I'm the neutral observer over here that ultimately wants the United States along with the current global order to collapse in total free-fall.

Whatever brings this manifestation even quicker is fine by me. I'm content on letting both political parties fighting it out devouring this nation into political chaos. Hell, I even encourage it. :evilfun:

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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:16 pm

Best I can find on approval in the military is 57% approve to 41% disapprove, and that is from July, pre-Zelensky call, pre-impeachment inquiry, pre-Syria withdrawal.

So, a little more than half. That alone should make you question how likely a violent reaction led or supported by current military members is. Add to that that most Trump-supporting military members are nonetheless loyal to the Constitution and the process by which Trump would be removed. Add to that that the military leadership is not nearly so favorable on Trump. Add to that that Trump's recent actions have likely lost him substantial support in the military, and that members of the military are as subject as anyone else to the unfolding of the impeachment process, which has already substantially moved public opinion in favor of removal.

Look at this chart of the polling average on impeachment and removal. That jump around September 25 coincided with Pelosi announcing the start of an inquiry on 9/24 and Trump releasing the memo from the call on 9/25. Scroll down and you can see that the jump occurred across the political spectrum. The facts coming out aren't increasing polarization, they're getting people on board with the idea that this president should be removed.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Pedro I Rengel » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:15 pm

"Impartial people..."

The fucking balls on these commies.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:39 pm

Trump seems to have the most loyal following any US president has had, especially under such duress. Sure, very auspicious residences did have big followings but many of those attached would break off at the slightest bit of resistance. With Donald J Trump it doesn't matter in the end because he already delivered the goods.

What he did was defeat the most murderous savage alive in our age, prevent it from taking control of the Nato. His bravery saved us maybe literally a million years of damage control. What happens now won't be of much importance to Trumps legacy, he probably gets his picking of the afterlives of all cool religions. His name is written in the Galactic Records.

The puny childmurderers hiding from the world in the foam from their mouths which now think they have an important procedure at hand will be forgotten as they die.
We need to see this in perspective.
The strong do what they can, the weak accept what they must.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:50 pm

Carleas wrote:Best I can find on approval in the military is 57% approve to 41% disapprove, and that is from July, pre-Zelensky call, pre-impeachment inquiry, pre-Syria withdrawal.

So, a little more than half. That alone should make you question how likely a violent reaction led or supported by current military members is. Add to that that most Trump-supporting military members are nonetheless loyal to the Constitution and the process by which Trump would be removed. Add to that that the military leadership is not nearly so favorable on Trump. Add to that that Trump's recent actions have likely lost him substantial support in the military, and that members of the military are as subject as anyone else to the unfolding of the impeachment process, which has already substantially moved public opinion in favor of removal.

Look at this chart of the polling average on impeachment and removal. That jump around September 25 coincided with Pelosi announcing the start of an inquiry on 9/24 and Trump releasing the memo from the call on 9/25. Scroll down and you can see that the jump occurred across the political spectrum. The facts coming out aren't increasing polarization, they're getting people on board with the idea that this president should be removed.


How many of these polls are controlled by neo-liberal democrats? Not politically bias, right? :lol:
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:51 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Trump seems to have the most loyal following any US president has had, especially under such duress. Sure, very auspicious residences did have big followings but many of those attached would break off at the slightest bit of resistance. With Donald J Trump it doesn't matter in the end because he already delivered the goods.

What he did was defeat the most murderous savage alive in our age, prevent it from taking control of the Nato. His bravery saved us maybe literally a million years of damage control. What happens now won't be of much importance to Trumps legacy, he probably gets his picking of the afterlives of all cool religions. His name is written in the Galactic Records.

The puny childmurderers hiding from the world in the foam from their mouths which now think they have an important procedure at hand will be forgotten as they die.
We need to see this in perspective.


Just start fighting each other already and crash this economy into a burning frenzy so that my guys can wait on the sidelines until you're both severely weakened so that way we can make our opening move. :evilfun: :lol: :P :-"

Two birds, one stone. Bishop takes king and knight takes queen.

Always remember, we fascists are counting on you democrats and republicans to destroy each other. We're actually predictably counting on it. It's in a fascist handbook somewhere I think...

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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:37 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:How many of these polls are controlled by neo-liberal democrats?

This is a very weak response. First, it effectively concedes that my conclusion follows from the evidence as stated, but that needn't be so readily conceded. Second, it even effectively concedes that the poll shows what it purports to show, something that should in much greater doubt given the great failure of polling in the leadup to the 2016 election. And third, it rests on the throwaway defense that all evidence is lies, all investigators liars, all facts opinions, etc. etc.; we know nothing, and so we cannot know this. But this response amounts to Cartesian skepticism of all claims, and disproves your own beliefs as well.

And if that's the best argument you have, it makes my case better than I could.

Zero_Sum wrote:my guys can wait on the sidelines

My guess is that that lot will keep sitting out history, suckling off the teat of the society they despise and satisfied in fantasies in which they matter.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:01 pm

Even if the Democratic worst-case-scenario were true, and Trump blatantly Extorted Ukraine to investigate his political rival (Biden), that is not a "High Crime". It is a Low Crime.

So even if Democrats played their hand perfectly, they would still fail, and not have grounds for impeachment. This is going to be a big embarrassment and stain on the Democratic-Liberal-Left, and I hope, for a long time to come. I hope the Democrats learn from their failures here; but I doubt they will.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:25 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Even if the Democratic worst-case-scenario were true, and Trump blatantly Extorted Ukraine to investigate his political rival (Biden), that is not a "High Crime". It is a Low Crime.

So even if Democrats played their hand perfectly, they would still fail, and not have grounds for impeachment. This is going to be a big embarrassment and stain on the Democratic-Liberal-Left, and I hope, for a long time to come. I hope the Democrats learn from their failures here; but I doubt they will.


Obama did so many impeachable offenses but nobody did anything because he was the first black president in what was supposedly post- racial America. :lol:

This is purely a political assassination take down of Trump, I don't even like Donald Trump and I can see that.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:29 pm

Carleas wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:How many of these polls are controlled by neo-liberal democrats?

This is a very weak response. First, it effectively concedes that my conclusion follows from the evidence as stated, but that needn't be so readily conceded. Second, it even effectively concedes that the poll shows what it purports to show, something that should in much greater doubt given the great failure of polling in the leadup to the 2016 election. And third, it rests on the throwaway defense that all evidence is lies, all investigators liars, all facts opinions, etc. etc.; we know nothing, and so we cannot know this. But this response amounts to Cartesian skepticism of all claims, and disproves your own beliefs as well.

And if that's the best argument you have, it makes my case better than I could.

Zero_Sum wrote:my guys can wait on the sidelines

My guess is that that lot will keep sitting out history, suckling off the teat of the society they despise and satisfied in fantasies in which they matter.



So you're basically admitting most of your sources of information are politically biased. Alright then, thanks for that Carleas in confirming my suspicions.

Sucking off the teat of society? Well it appears our Marxist lite democrat is also an elitist where he looks down on the poor, disenfranchised, and lower ranking members of society. Of course this is no surprise by me given the blatant hypocrisy of his political affiliation. The upper echelons of the democratic party always like to look at others as their betters. Carleas, those of your political persuasion are in store for a rude awakening is all I can say. I know you're not going to believe anything I have to say, but I've said it nonetheless.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:37 pm

The Military Times article doesn't include retired or end of service military veterans.

Also, the military has been struggling to acquire more soldiers or servicemen because nobody is stupid enough to join anymore where their enrollment numbers have been declining for years now. They're even having a hard time getting inner city 'racial minorities' to even join up in recruitment. 8)

One wonders the accuracy of such military polling at all.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:20 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Obama did so many impeachable offenses but nobody did anything because he was the first black president in what was supposedly post- racial America. :lol:

This is purely a political assassination take down of Trump, I don't even like Donald Trump and I can see that.

Yes, a main difference between Obama and Trump is that the liberal-left Media establishment protected Obama's extortion, but want to crucify Trump for the same thing.

The true "quid-pro-quo" is why Obama wasn't driven out of office and countless witch-hunts, for the same actions, agendas, and political maneuvers.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:that is not a "High Crime". It is a Low Crime

Zero_Sum wrote:Obama did so many impeachable offenses

I refer you again to my question and comments here; "high crime" doesn't mean a "big crime"; an "impeachable offense" is basically a meaningless phrase.

Define your terms, and be specific.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:53 pm

Impeachment is either a legitimate complaint, following a severe "High Crime" by the US President, or, it is an illegitimate complain by one party to forcibly remove the US president of the opposing party, under false-pretense, which is also a violation of the US constitution, by which the people elect the Commander-in-Chief to office. If impeachment is illegitimate, then it is the essence of Anti-Democracy. The Democrats are stating, with this illegitimate coup, that "your majority vote" (for the President) be damned, "if we have the votes then we will impeach". And they will try to impeach, even without the votes.

A legitimate impeachment would follow a severe, "High Crime". If the President were 1) declaring war unconstitutionally, 2) extorting for sums of tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of personal gain, 3) conducting federal crimes such as murder, rape, or theft (point 2), 4) or any other severe breach of the US constitution. Trump has done nothing of the sorts.

And it can, and will be, easily argued by Trump and Republicans, that the basis of any "investigation" into Biden, is synonymous or tantamount to internal corruption, which it arguably was. Under the Obama administration, Biden admitted, on tape, of Bribery and Extortion in Ukraine. Therefore, Trump has a legitimate Right to investigate that, whether internally or externally (through Ukraine), doesn't really matter. Furthermore, what is proved, is the Liberal-Left-Media, Fake-News Agencies, protect their own, and were unwilling to call-out Biden on his Corruptions, while pressing witch-hunt after witch-hunt against Trump, producing a double-standard. Trump was/is right. The Liberal-Left-Media is an enemy of Democracy, and enemy of the State. The ruthless lying, by the Media, is finally being checked by Trump, an Anti-Establishment Non-Politician, which is precisely what the public wanted in 2016, the public wants now, and the public will elect into 2020 and possibly beyond.

Trump backs-up his promises, which upsets the normal and traditional "Politicians", who all, do not. Politicians, the Establishment, is intimidated by Trump, for this reason especially. Trump is draining the swamp, and should continue to do so, perhaps even go further, and launch a State-funded attack against the Press.


Also, related to the Press, why haven't the Mass Media looked into the Epstein matter, outed by the ABC News Anchor recently? How corrupt exactly, are the Mass-Media News agencies and corporations? How many pedophile connections are there, exactly? Again, why isn't the real news being covered? Because, the Liberal-Left-Fake-News, protects its own. It protected and protects Epstein and his clients (how many of them are Media Executives???), it protected Obama and Hillary, and it protects its political and social interests.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Meno_ » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:08 pm

The flow of the forum appear to try to recapture proceedings determinally, hoping to shore up the rules which have been prescribed.
Such procedures are failing substantially, since policy considerations have been slowly eroding public trust in the application of rules.
The irony rests with the republicans, especially those who want to conserve
public trust .
The last frontier is that . which exists in international relations, and today's hearing makes.that clear with the divergence between various committees investigating, with the intelligence committee signifying precedence between it, and the other committees in reference to national security and international relations.
The polls do not show this , and the shadow international procedure, of policy of prior CIA venues, may be at the heart of it.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:43 pm

A "high crime" is also not a "severe" crime. A high crime is a mere breach of trust; it's 'high' in the sense that it's a crime when done by a person in a position of trust (i.e. a high position), and need not be something that would be criminal when done by a member of the public. Hamilton described impeachable conduct as "the misconduct of public men" or "the abuse or violation of some public trust". In other words, the bar is lower for impeachment than it is for a normal criminal prosecution.

And that makes sense because the kind of conduct that should preclude someone from a position of trust is not the same as the kind that should lead someone to be put in jail; you might not leave your kids with someone just because they're shifty-looking, but we shouldn't make looking shifty a crime.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Biden admitted, on tape, of Bribery and Extortion in Ukraine

Citation needed.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Zero_Sum » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:02 am

Carleas wrote:A "high crime" is also not a "severe" crime. A high crime is a mere breach of trust; it's 'high' in the sense that it's a crime when done by a person in a position of trust (i.e. a high position), and need not be something that would be criminal when done by a member of the public. Hamilton described impeachable conduct as "the misconduct of public men" or "the abuse or violation of some public trust". In other words, the bar is lower for impeachment than it is for a normal criminal prosecution.

And that makes sense because the kind of conduct that should preclude someone from a position of trust is not the same as the kind that should lead someone to be put in jail; you might not leave your kids with someone just because they're shifty-looking, but we shouldn't make looking shifty a crime.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Biden admitted, on tape, of Bribery and Extortion in Ukraine

Citation needed.



Basically what it amounts to is a democratic committee in congress that interprets the law regarding low or high crimes based upon their emotional dislike and hatred of Donald Trump. That's all it is.

[That and because their pockets are a little bit more emptier now with the whole trade war against China that is their biggest political financial donors.]

They've wanted him gone since 2016 and they're going to throw everything they got at him until something sticks. [Until something is usable against him.]

That's certainly how the rest of the United States other than uber neo-liberal democrats thinks like watching this.

It would be hilarious again if Donald Trump wins again in 2020, not because I like him or the republicans [I don't] but just to see the Marxist lite democrats go insane four more years.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:38 am

Carleas wrote:
Urwrongx1000 wrote:Biden admitted, on tape, of Bribery and Extortion in Ukraine

Citation needed.



Easy. Anything else?
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:51 am

Trump is playing Washington DC for fools. And I believe more of "Middle" America is following him now than ever before. Trump's Anti-Establishment attitude is abrasive, to both Democrats and Republicans. But obviously, Republicans back him up on principle. They are stuck with him, since he ran through the Republican party ticket. Favor for a favor, Trump has admitted before, he knows how the Washington corruption and bribery works (he was a Clinton ally long before running for office). Also, the Looney-Liberal-Left has short memories, and forget, that Trump was almost universally liked by liberals, the Media, politicians, the New York Times, etc. before he became president. Then everybody turned on him, why? Because of corruption. Because of what Trump said from the start.

Trump, who laughs at the situation, knows how to play these buffoons. When the Liberal-Left threaten him, what does he do? He calls their bluff, and doubles-down, everytime. When the Liberal-Left goes hysterical, does Trump bend and apologize? No, he becomes even more brazen and confident, saying even more controversial comments. He stirs the Left up, because it's free publicity, and he mastered the tactic early on.

Nobody in Washington was/is prepared for these Anti-Establishment tactics. So the "Democrats" have become Anti-Democratic. An Insane world indeed, a circus and clown show. Trump wins the majority vote, wins the "Democracy", and what do "Democrats" want to do, they want to impeach, without any solid ground to do so. They have lost accountability and trust, from this. At least, Clinton was caught red-handed getting a blowjob from his secretary, and then caught lying after denying it. Democrats have since wanted revenge, and kept overplaying their hand, again and again, thinking they have the leverage to impeach Trump, without catching him getting a blowjob in the White House. That's the difference, between now 2019 and twenty years ago, 1999.


The Anti-Establishment platform has now proved-itself. The US public, the majority, is fed-up with Washington Bureaucracy, and will do what is necessary to implement change, especially if that means electing the most Abrasive son-of-a-bitch possible, to do that job. Demon-rats have still not learned the lesson. They are desperate for popularity, trying to appeal to transexuals, censorship, socialists, and all fringe groups. The further Left, Democrats go, the more they lose base, lose credibility, lose legitimacy, and will lose future generations.

The Anti-Establishment case, now, is paving the way for better things to come. If Washington DC doesn't reform, which of course they won't, then they will be forced to, by the general American public.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Meno_ » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:25 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Trump is playing Washington DC for fools. And I believe more of "Middle" America is following him now than ever before. Trump's Anti-Establishment attitude is abrasive, to both Democrats and Republicans. But obviously, Republicans back him up on principle. They are stuck with him, since he ran through the Republican party ticket. Favor for a favor, Trump has admitted before, he knows how the Washington corruption and bribery works (he was a Clinton ally long before running for office). Also, the Looney-Liberal-Left has short memories, and forget, that Trump was almost universally liked by liberals, the Media, politicians, the New York Times, etc. before he became president. Then everybody turned on him, why? Because of corruption. Because of what Trump said from the start.

Trump, who laughs at the situation, knows how to play these buffoons. When the Liberal-Left threaten him, what does he do? He calls their bluff, and doubles-down, everytime. When the Liberal-Left goes hysterical, does Trump bend and apologize? No, he becomes even more brazen and confident, saying even more controversial comments. He stirs the Left up, because it's free publicity, and he mastered the tactic early on.

Nobody in Washington was/is prepared for these Anti-Establishment tactics. So the "Democrats" have become Anti-Democratic. An Insane world indeed, a circus and clown show. Trump wins the majority vote, wins the "Democracy", and what do "Democrats" want to do, they want to impeach, without any solid ground to do so. They have lost accountability and trust, from this. At least, Clinton was caught red-handed getting a blowjob from his secretary, and then caught lying after denying it. Democrats have since wanted revenge, and kept overplaying their hand, again and again, thinking they have the leverage to impeach Trump, without catching him getting a blowjob in the White House. That's the difference, between now 2019 and twenty years ago, 1999.


The Anti-Establishment platform has now proved-itself. The US public, the majority, is fed-up with Washington Bureaucracy, and will do what is necessary to implement change, especially if that means electing the most Abrasive son-of-a-bitch possible, to do that job. Demon-rats have still not learned the lesson. They are desperate for popularity, trying to appeal to transexuals, censorship, socialists, and all fringe groups. The further Left, Democrats go, the more they lose base, lose credibility, lose legitimacy, and will lose future generations.

The Anti-Establishment case, now, is paving the way for better things to come. If Washington DC doesn't reform, which of course they won't, then they will be forced to, by the general American public.




But how, when both sides see the theatrical antics of a loose cannon President, rather that of irreconcilable differences between National and international approaches?

Is this not a catch-22 of hell if no do and help of I don't ?

When reality become a a fog, it is near impossible to conceive of a.grey area.that is palatable. The next election is seeking a the better of the worse scenario, and the mud has not began to fly in earnest.

An international government is the answer, with a world court adjudication , this whole show is geared toward The World Government.
Everyone is under the weather, because they know, that their identity is going to be shredded.
Either that, or the usual. a very big war, that becomes necessary because nobody wants it.

What no one wants to really admit by underplaying its significance is, that this really is a huge Constitutional crisis , and minimization is not the key to controlling a run away train.

Perhaps this has been planned as such, very cleverly disguising the fact since the scary days of Reagonimics and the Star wars deception.
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:16 am

Meno_ wrote:But how, when both sides see the theatrical antics of a loose cannon President, rather that of irreconcilable differences between National and international approaches?

Is this not a catch-22 of hell if no do and help of I don't ?

When reality become a a fog, it is near impossible to conceive of a.grey area.that is palatable. The next election is seeking a the better of the worse scenario, and the mud has not began to fly in earnest.

An international government is the answer, with a world court adjudication , this whole show is geared toward The World Government.
Everyone is under the weather, because they know, that their identity is going to be shredded.
Either that, or the usual. a very big war, that becomes necessary because nobody wants it.

What no one wants to really admit by underplaying its significance is, that this really is a huge Constitutional crisis , and minimization is not the key to controlling a run away train.

Perhaps this has been planned as such, very cleverly disguising the fact since the scary days of Reagonimics and the Star wars deception.

The ice bergs have floated to the top.

The bigger issues are:
National Government versus International Government,
Democracy versus Impeachment (Anti-Democracy)
Establishment (Washington DC) versus Anti-Establishment (New York Elitism)
Left culture versus Right culture
Justice versus Corruption


I think many factors are shifting now, to places that many people are unwilling or unaware of. There are few "choices" to be made, because those in power, are simply following-through the processes that got them there. I mean, how else could the "Democratic" party be pushing Impeachment, which is fundamentally Anti-Democratic? The people vote for President, but no, voting doesn't really matter, and only Congressional power matters? Representational power, not power of the Federal citizens? And then, next, how is the President elected, except through the Media, recognition, and being Platformed? Trump was a hero of "The Media" before he ran as Republican/Right. Then it turned on him, and look how badly and viciously it did so.

Did the Media turn on Clinton, Biden, Obama, or Epstein? No, instead, it protected these individuals. So why the double-standard, except, everybody is serving certain aspects of the status-quo? There are loyalties at play, and all these are becoming exposed rapidly. For all of Trump's faults, one of the best things he's done so far, unintentionally, is begin to wage war against "The Media", and point-out much of that corruption.


Where is the press about the ABC news anchor, that "whistleblower", who basically name-dropped the link between Clinton and Epstein. Fucking huge! Do you realize how big that is??? How damning? And while the masses are entertained with the political circus, nothing more is said? The major "News" corporations don't even report or follow-through with it?
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Re: Trump impeachment proceedings begin today.

Postby Carleas » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:47 am

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Biden admitted, on tape, of Bribery and Extortion in Ukraine

Carleas wrote:Citation needed.

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Easy. Anything else?

No, still just the first thing. That guitar music is righteous, no doubt, but what is that video supposed to show? It picks up mid conversation, so it's not clear what's being withheld and why.

When I go to the bakery and order some bread, and they're like "give me the money", and I'm like "nah, I'm not going to...If the [bread is not baked], you’re not getting the money", that is neither bribery nor extortion, right?

So, what's the accusation here? What's the context? Was he acting in his personal capacity? Was he relaying administration policy? Was it even an accurate description of events?

Here's the full video and transcript of the conversation. It's clear from context that 1) he was there relaying an official policy position of the administration, 2) it's in the context of providing aid to Ukraine against Russia, and even of praising the Trump administration for some of its steps with respect to the Ukraine, and 3) it's part of an international effort to enforce sanctions against Russia and limit their influence in the Ukraine.

I suspect that context was cut because the editor felt that it muddied the water.

Zero_Sum wrote:it amounts to is a democratic committee in congress...

Let's be clear that the witnesses against the President include many Republicans and career civil servants, several appointed by Republicans and several appointed by Trump himself. The lawyers who immediately recognized that the Zelensky call needed to be covered up worked for the President. It isn't just Democrats, and it isn't just a congressional committee that think there's a problem here.

Zero_Sum wrote:...that interprets the law regarding low or high crimes based upon their emotional...

You have still not explained how you interpret the law regarding high crimes, so, glass houses my friend.
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