Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

should fake-rape accusers be neutered?

yes
4
100%
no
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 4

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Mr Reasonable » Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:15 am

lol
You see...a pimp's love is very different from that of a square.
Dating a stripper is like eating a noisy bag of chips in church. Everyone looks at you in disgust, but deep down they want some too.

What exactly is logic? -Magnus Anderson

Support the innocence project on AmazonSmile instead of Turd's African savior biker dude.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/
User avatar
Mr Reasonable
resident contrarian
 
Posts: 25450
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:54 am
Location: pimping a hole straight through the stratosphere itself

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Jakob » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:08 pm

Gloominary wrote:And what if Ford is lying, what does that make her?
A Rape Faker?
Or a Rape Liar?

I'd align with the OP in that it would make her the moral equivalent of a rapist. I'm for laws that make it so anyway. There's nothing easier these days than ruining a mans life with a lie that plays to the malcontent of the self-ignorant masses.

If Ford is lying, she is damn good at it.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5974
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:08 am

Mr Reasonable wrote:Wendy did you read that in the real news? The fake news I've been watching disagrees.

Oh, the fake news or (M)MSM as it is called is also in the democrats pockets...duh. There are many democrat holdovers working in the CIA and FBI who are corrupting its nature to be fair and seek justice.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 7113
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:12 am

Consensual sex should be as boring to Americans as it is to Europeans.

Yes, all employees of consenting age should give oral sex at work, hey, it's what the boss likes his/her employees to do while on the clock.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 7113
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:12 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
Consensual sex should be as boring to Americans as it is to Europeans.

Yes, all employees of consenting age should give oral sex at work, hey, it's what the boss likes his/her employees to do while on the clock.

You just point out where I said people should give oral sex - which would mean a lack of consent. Make up some stuff, if you need to. I don't think whatever the current candidate for SC is, Trump's candidate, should be stopped just on word against word. But you keep reacting in a knee jerk way to whatever you think benefits your team. That makes for a great debate and discussion. Whack a mole as thinking.

Let's see you have the guts to join Unwrong's thread on rape. Will you seemingly support feminism by questioning some of Unwrong's ideas or will you go along with a man who blames rapes on women, period. Like, the men had no option but to rape her. Is it possible for you to actually respond in some way that isn't just a party line, have some nuance?
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1014
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby WendyDarling » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:03 pm

They consented...but my point was that they were performing consensual oral sex at work which was my problem with Bill Clinton getting his blow jobs in the oval office while he was supposed to be acting as president, not some boyish horndog. Work places are for work, not consensual sex.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
User avatar
WendyDarling
Heroine
 
Posts: 7113
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:52 am
Location: Hades

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Gloominary » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:43 am

@Karpel

If she has just spoken about it, she is a slanderer. If she wrote about it she is a libelist. Not easy to prosecute in criminal courts. If she does it under oath, then it is more easily prosecuted. Civil courts offer more opportunities, but tough with a case this old, unless she did some very stupid stuff along the way, like tell people she had a trick to keep him off the court, etc.

If you're caught falsely accusing someone of a crime in court, you should receive whatever penalty they would've received had they been convicted, if they would've received 10-15 years for rape, that's what you should receive.
If you're caught falsely accusing someone of a crime on social media, your life should be socioeconomically destroyed, just like you tried to socioeconomically destroy theirs.

I don't think there's any problem with bringing up old stuff,

I think people should have the right to bring up whatever they want to bring up.
However, whether it's wroth publicly addressing, depends on who, what, where and so on.
And how certain, you are, and how much evidence, you have.

If you're certain someone raped you a few days, weeks or months ago, and you have some evidence, I think it's worth bringing it up.

However, if you're uncertain someone sexually harassed you a few decades ago when you were both drunken teenagers at a party during a sex game, and you have no evidence, than it's a complete waste of time, not to mention unnecessarily damaging to the accused and their family, and you're an asshole for even bringing it up.
And I mean girls whip out their tits in public all the time, so who really cares?

Ford has absolutely no evidence whatsoever, but I guess at least she's accusing him of a serious crime and claims to be certain it was him, but the second accuser can't even give us that.
She's an idiot.

And as for the third accuser, not only does she not have any evidence either, but worse, what she's accusing Kavanaugh and co of, him and his buddies throwing dozens of parties where they conspired to drug and gang rape dozens of girls, is incredibly unlikely to have occurred, because surely some of those girls would've came forward then and/or dozens by now.
It's absurd, and it goes to show you how ready, willing and able many women are to make shit up and join the rape bandwagon, receive their 5 seconds of fame and feel like they're part of history, because there's rarely any consequences for such abhorrent behavior.
The third accuser should be publicly shamed for making such outrageous, damaging and in all likelihood false accusations up, to discourage others from following suit.

This's why dozens of women making accusations, one after the other, doesn't necessarily make the accused any less credible, because in our society, while there are occasionally consequences for making allegations, like death threats, more often than not there aren't any, and there's far more incentives, all the attention, sympathy and money we unthinkingly shower upon unconfirmed victims, and increasingly women are taking note there'll be few if any consequences and many incentives, so all the more reason we need to judge each allegation on a case by case basis in light of evidence.

I mean who really suffers at the end of the day in all this, regardless if it's never proven or even if they're exonerated in court?
It's the accused who's lives are ruined over these things, never the accuser.

And unless someone has been given a fair trial (and even then), there are no facts.
While people are entitled to have an opinion about whether x person did x thing, unless they were there, or there's been a public confession, if they claim they know for a fact x person committed x crime, they're an idiot.
And perhaps someone shouldn't be able to lose important things, like their job, over pure speculation.

but unless we have more than word against word, it should be ignored.

I would go further, in some cases they should be publicly shamed for even bringing it up.

People with that much authority and it is a kind of moral authority should be screened and called to account for past actions. If he raped her, he didn't just commit a moral fuckup then. He continued it by never admitting it and never making amends, etc. But that if is very important

Depends on what it is, if it can be proven they committed rape, and they're running for high office, of course they shouldn't get in, but if it's a few cases of sexual harassment at parties decades ago, we should overlook them, because we can't expect people to be perfect, everyone on earth has some dirt on them.
If you're looking for someone absolutely scrupulous to be a politician, you're gonna be looking for a real, real...real long time.

*Laughs* most politicians are scumbags anyway, I mean what are we even talking about here?
Rape is the least of their crimes, try smuggling billions of dollars worth of drugs, or child sex slavery, or war crimes, and on and on, stealing billions of dollars in tax, covering up corporate crimes that've cost us billions, or annihilated entire ecosystems.
That is in part why this whole thing is kind of ridiculous, I mean we're talking about a rape here no one can prove, when there're much, much...much bigger fish to fry.

This's a distraction from real issues, but then the very fabric of our society is held together by distraction, it's the secret ingredient that makes it all work, the real glue that holds this ball of shit together.
We know if people started taking a good, hard look at what's going on by the millions, blood would be running in the streets.
And of course politicians know this too, they know it all too well, they've been exploiting it for millennia.
You win the masses over with bread in circuses, not with logic and facts, you win by flinging as much feces at your opponent as humanly possible.

And now I fear we're hitting a new low here.
Instead of proving who's policies are better for the country, they're going be competing over who can make the most baseless (rape) allegations up.
It's absolutely atrocious, the state of politics today, a complete farce.
Instead of having a polite, half respectful, civilized, dignified, half openminded and rational debate/discussion on the issues, politicians are rape bombing each other.
I mean that's it, surely we're fucked now.

And you think they even give a fuck about rape?
They don't, dozens of democrats, including his high-ness Bill 'I smoked but I did not inhale, we had sex but I did not cum' Clinton has been accused of rape by dozens of women, which of course he denied, like he has denied everything he has been accused and later admitted to after evidence had been found.

No this is about politics, it's always, always...always about politics, because politics is business, and business is money, and money is power.
They don't give a fuck about women's rights, or rape.
This is about distracting us, and winning at all costs, determining which party gets to economically and socially sodomize us all for the next 4 years.

Like you've said in many others posts you've made, on the surface this is about human rights, or men's vs women's rights, tribal allegiances, blacks vs whites, Christians vs Muslims and so on, meanwhile the lower classes are getting shafted no matter who's in charge.
White male privilege my ass, the only real privilege that exists, is the people born into the overclass.
Divide and conquer, this's a 4000 year old play book they're following, the only thing new is the war is also being waged online, on social media.

Nothing all that new about accusing the opposition of sex crimes either, I mean Rome transitioned from a monarchy to a republic on the basis of a single sex allegation, or at least that is what we're told to believe, the rape of the noblewoman Luctretia by a Roman king, perhaps that too was a false allegation, perhaps the noblemen knew it was and were conspiring, concocting a false rape flag, as a pretext in order to justify empowering themselves and establishing a representative timocracy and removing the king.

We will keep repeating history until we get it right...but we won't, while humanity can at times make some improvements, more often than not we take 3 steps backwards to take 1 step forwards.
Progress isn't guaranteed, if anything stagnation or regression is.

And I mean what happened to the democrats, what happened to: it's the economy, stupid?
Now they're more puritanically concerned with our sex lives than the republicans ever were, just in different ways
Last edited by Gloominary on Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Dislocated

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Gloominary » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:45 am

@Jakob

I'd align with the OP in that it would make her the moral equivalent of a rapist. I'm for laws that make it so anyway. There's nothing easier these days than ruining a mans life with a lie that plays to the malcontent of the self-ignorant masses.

I wholeheartedly concur.

If Ford is lying, she is damn good at it.

Mmm...I think she is lying...or exaggerating, and she's not that good.
That looked like fake crying to me.
Not a single tear was visibly shed behind those preposterously thick and unstylish granny glasses, no red eye/face, no sniffling, no pause to catch her breath, joking and laughing only seconds after 'crying', the sad, crackly lil girl voice she put on, for sympathy...
She's a psychologist after all, and she had plenty of time to rehearse.
Of course while Kavanaugh mayn't be telling the whole truth and nothing but...at least his emotions were undeniably authentic.
But...no one but her, Kavanaugh and, perhaps the people who know them intimately will ever know for sure, unless a confession is made, or someone unexpectedly slips up big time, which at this point seems unlikely, which makes this whole fiasco, just that, a total waste of time and tax.
User avatar
Gloominary
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1094
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:58 am
Location: Dislocated

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Jakob » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:24 pm

"She's a psychologist after all, and she had plenty of time to rehearse."

Granted.

I haven't watched the whole thing on either side, any way I turn it the thing is obscene. Trump, Bannon, Putin, Matthis, Lavrov, these are guys I like to listen to but most pubic showings are just like watching an inferior life form plot its impotent course.

Ive been reading about the inconsistencies, and even though I found these not necessarily troublesome, what that time spent on the case drove home to me was the cold blooded strategy of sitting on that accusation for decades and then bringing it out right when it causes the most effect. If she has truly been defined as a victim by that moment, then she has been relentlessly planning this as revenge. As I say this I see that other things aren't adding up -- yes, what doesn't add up is what has been said about her motivation for bringing this out. And that is the only thing in which the real event echoes.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5974
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Jakob » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:33 pm

This is the most condescending thing ever, so lets not repeat it, but was she perhaps in love with him? Was that why she was at a gathering that wasn't really a party where he was one of a small number of people she cant exactly remember, and how she ended up in a bedroom with him? As a detective I would pursue this thread with some vigour, because why the hell else does a 15 year old girl go to a party at night but to get into some exciting stuff with an older boy? But yeah I wouldn't throw this out there through the mouth of a partisan interrogator, many undecided females would take offence.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5974
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:23 am

Jakob wrote:"She's a psychologist after all, and she had plenty of time to rehearse."

Granted.

I haven't watched the whole thing on either side, any way I turn it the thing is obscene. Trump, Bannon, Putin, Matthis, Lavrov, these are guys I like to listen to but most pubic showings are just like watching an inferior life form plot its impotent course.

Ive been reading about the inconsistencies, and even though I found these not necessarily troublesome, what that time spent on the case drove home to me was the cold blooded strategy of sitting on that accusation for decades and then bringing it out right when it causes the most effect. If she has truly been defined as a victim by that moment, then she has been relentlessly planning this as revenge. As I say this I see that other things aren't adding up -- yes, what doesn't add up is what has been said about her motivation for bringing this out. And that is the only thing in which the real event echoes.
That is of course possible. It is also possible that seeing that someone who did what she alleges he did put in a position to weigh in on all sorts of moral positions that will affect the whole country might have been the last straw, or the possibility where she felt she had an obligation to do something even if she would have preferred not to think about it for herself or something else. People on one team attibute X as the clear motive. People on the other team attribute Y as the clear motive. Neither group knows. Fuck, it could just be revenge, but if it's true, revenge could be a cool motivation. I will wait to talk about this until I can do the most damage. We just don't know. The teams were switched on Clinton, generally. Now this team knows why this issue is coming up, it's about morals, not the competitive aspects of politics. Now the other teams KNOWS that it is a character and ethical issue and that's why STarr and...etc. are pursuing this. Probabaly the people involved don't even know their own motivations very well. It is easy to convince yourself what your motivations are and be wrong. Or, at least, most people I meet think they know their motivations, but I see people always choosing the most convenient motivation. If many people don't even (want to look at or) know their own motivations, it isn't easy for other people to say 'Oh, his motivation is X.' Unless you have evidence. I don't think her motivations matter. If it can be corroborated somehow, then it should weigh in, depending on the strength of the evidence and corroboration. If it can't, it should be ignored.
Karpel Tunnel
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1014
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Jakob » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:33 am

I'd even go so far as to say that one motivation is never enough to do something pivotal.
She has at least three motivations, I reckon.

But what troubles me now is the very real possibility that she is entirely making up the whole incident. I switched around what at first I found a very credible seeming fashion of recalling details. But I realised that when evading charges when I had gotten in trouble with cops as a kid, I was doing the exact same "helpfully suspended temperament" thing. I had noticed how easily my teachers had fallen for that and cops were no different. That won't mean much to another but Im no longer so smitten with her.
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5974
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Re: Falsely accusing of rape is rape

Postby Jakob » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:11 pm

USA TODAY

"The Democrats declared war on Brett Kavanaugh in the name of women’s rights. But not only did the left’s attempt to deny Kavanaugh a place on the Supreme Court with last-minute allegations of sexual misconduct fail, the tactics employed have also wrought immeasurable and long-term damage on victims of sexual assault.

Since Christine Blasey Ford’s accusation that now-Justice Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her 36 years ago, while they were both high school students, Democrats have portrayed her mere allegation as proof conclusive of Kavanaugh’s guilt. “We must believe survivors,” became the battle cry. And Democrats, such as Hawaii Sen. Mazie Hirono, citing the National Task Force to End Sexual and Domestic Violence, warned that Kavanaugh’s confirmation will “send a message to every victim of sexual violence that their pain doesn’t matter, that they do not deserve justice, and that for them, fair treatment is out of reach. This will only serve to drive victims into the shadows, and further emboldening abusers.”

Democrats' posturing will hurt at the polls

The left’s political posturing has broadcast to victims a devastatingly untrue message, and Kavanaugh’s confirmation on Saturday has now cemented that lesson in the conscious of countless victims, leaving them convinced that speaking out about sexual abuse is futile.

However, rather than continuing to push this false narrative, what Democrats need is an incarnation of the moderate, pro-choice Republican Sen. Susan Collins — someone willing to proclaim the difficult truth: Ford’s claims of sexual assault were not believed because they were not believable.

Beyond Ford, Democrats further harmed the cause of justice for sexual abuse victims by propping up Deborah Ramirez and Julie Swetnick’s charges of sexual misconduct as “serious allegations.” Ramirez, who claimed Kavanaugh exposed himself to her while they were both freshman at Yale, came forward with her allegation only after spending a week chatting with attorneys and thinking over her decades-old memory of a drunken night. And every person with direct knowledge of the supposed assault denied Kavanaugh’s involvement. Swetnick’s ridiculous gang-rape charge advanced by lawyer Michael Avenatti, of Stormy Daniels’ fame, further proved the political motivation behind these unbelievable 11th-hour claims.

More: Christine Blasey Ford's changing Kavanaugh assault story leaves her short on credibility

Rejuvenated Republicans rediscover unity in litmus-test Brett Kavanaugh confirmation fight

Brett Kavanaugh will bring change to the Supreme Court, but maybe not what you think

Every fake rape claim, from Tawana Brawley's tale in the late 1980s that four white men kidnapped and raped her, to the fiction Rolling Stone magazine perpetuated when it told “Jackie’s” tale of being raped by University of Virginia fraternity members, increases the public’s skepticism of sexual assault allegations. And skepticism quickly hardens to cynicism when the story screams it is a partisan hit job.

The cynicism, however, will not be limited to high-profile cases with clear political motivations. That is why the Democrats’ failed attempt to keep Kavanaugh off the Supreme Court will also backfire electorally when women flock to the polls next month for midterm elections.

Women see allegations as a risk for families

The extreme left of the Democratic Party may celebrate leaders’ no-holds-bar attempt to derail Kavanaugh’s confirmation, but swing suburban moms are appalled by the Democrats’ ill-use of Ford, Ramirez and Swetnick.

In Ford, women saw a distraught and damaged woman paraded before the Senate, her privacy in tatters, because her sexual assault allegations were leaked to the news media at the most politically opportune moment. And as Ford’s story fell apart following her testimony, women saw the obvious harm the Democrats’ tactic will inflict on real victims of sexual assault.

Moderate women voters also find Democratic senators’ utter disregard for the men affected by false claims of sexual assault terrifying. Women watched as Kavanaugh spoke forcefully to defend his name and honor, and in Kavanaugh, women saw their innocent fathers, husbands, brothers, or sons, falsely accused, condemned and left with a reputation irreparably damaged. And in Kavanaugh’s loving wife, young daughters and distraught mother, women saw themselves and their families.

Women also saw the future of a society that puts politics over the principles of fairness and the presumption of innocence. And they saw Democrats leading that charge.

Democratic politicians, professional protesters and reproductive-rights activists are so blinded by their rage at how President Donald Trump succeeded in appointing a second originalist justice to the Supreme Court, they cannot see the anger they unleashed in the apolitical populace across America. They will see it, though, come November."
Image
For behold, all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals
User avatar
Jakob
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 5974
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: look at my suit

Previous

Return to Current Events



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users