North Korea in good faith?

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Will North Korea negotiate in good faith?

1. North Korea will continue its deception of agreeing to any attempt by Trump to really abide by any forthcoming treaty to get rid of nuclear weapons from the Korean peninsula.
3
60%
2.North Korea will this time, faithfully abide by a new treaty prohibiting any possession, production or dissemination of nukes, thereby possibly securing Trump the Nobel peace Prize.
2
40%
E. No comment or I have no way of knowing.
0

North Korea in good faith?

North Korea has been literally fooling the West in their promise to give up nuclear ambitions in the Korean peninsula. Time after time, they have turned a seeming political good faith agreement into sabotaged ill will, by breaking their part of the agreement. Given the sophistication of US intelligence, is it conceivable that the US would go into any agreement , as newer escalations if deception would sink good faith agreements deeper into disbelief ?

Unless there is an ulterior motive , such as the devaluation of North Korean claims, as re g adds to the extent of their level of technological development, the only other conceivable factor, which could mitigate the incredibly apoearnt low level of US intelligence, could be the hope that technical US progress would eclipse any North Korean claims. Could either, or any assessment be off the rails?or, is there some deliberate fabrication going on within US intelligence as well?

This poll has, three choices, and You may select any one, all if which can be changed at any time.
Meno_
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

2.. as with the whole world watching on, how could North Korea not abide.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

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MagsJ
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

I doubt the good faith of all the players in this play.
Karpel Tunnel
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Karpel Tunnel wrote:I doubt the good faith of all the players in this play.

May be there will be benefits for North Korea, if they abide.. we don't know what deals were struck and what promises were made over handshakes in private, in private rooms and vacant corridors.
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ

MagsJ
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

MagsJ wrote:
Karpel Tunnel wrote:I doubt the good faith of all the players in this play.

May be there will be benefits for North Korea, if they abide.. we don't know what deals were struck and what promises were made over handshakes in private, in private rooms and vacant corridors.
Maybe a terrible dictator got scared by a more dangerous insane man representing a group. The more dangerous group with more resources may treat, so far, their citizens better, but that doesn't mean their motives are good on this issue or others. Kruschev was the leader of a worse kind of government, but in the Cuban Missile Crisis he took more risks than Kennedy to keep the world from ending. I hope PUtin makes the right choice when these nutbags put his back to the wall. Which does not mean I think he's a good guy.
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

My grandfather fought in the Korean war. It would have been nice to ask his opinion if he were alive today. My initial thought was that it was surprising to hear on the news. It is good to hear, but time will tell for me.
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

MagsJ wrote:2.. as with the whole world watching on, how could North Korea not abide.

I'm not saying I know one way or another, but I mean, they don't exactly have a good record of not developing missiles and all that.
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Mr Reasonable wrote:
MagsJ wrote:2.. as with the whole world watching on, how could North Korea not abide.

I'm not saying I know one way or another, but I mean, they don't exactly have a good record of not developing missiles and all that.
Who does? How many cities have they destroyed with a missile or a bomb?

Not that I like the thought of him with missiles, but beam in the one's own eye, mote in the other's.
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Maybe a terrible dictator got scared by a more dangerous insane man representing a group. The more dangerous group with more resources may treat, so far, their citizens better, but that doesn't mean their motives are good on this issue or others. Kruschev was the leader of a worse kind of government, but in the Cuban Missile Crisis he took more risks than Kennedy to keep the world from ending. I hope PUtin makes the right choice when these nutbags put his back to the wall. Which does not mean I think he's a good guy.

Would he have raised his head above the parapet, to get nothing more than a (lost) staredown for having done so?
The possibility of anything we can imagine existing is endless and infinite

I haven't got the time to spend the time reading something that is telling me nothing, as I will never be able to get that time back, and I may need it for something at some point in time. Wait! What?

--MagsJ

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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Isn't it kinda crazy that USA has so many nuclear weapons then tells everyone else not to build nuclear weapons?

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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Dan~ wrote:Isn't it kinda crazy that USA has so many nuclear weapons then tells everyone else not to build nuclear weapons?

The USA has a lot, so does Russia , China, France, Great Britain, India, Pakistan, Israel, North Korea, Iran, but nobody seems to want further proliferation. If North Korea wants it, south Korea may want it, and and Japan, and some of these countries may be tempted to sell to the highest bidder, in case of a bad year for the economy in their countries.
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Trump pulls out of summit in Sigmapore

Is this am example of hype to gain political capotal. , or, something more sinister?

Whose simcwrwry or imsimcerity is foremost?

How does.this effect this poll? ( or not)

Or is this a bilateral behind closed doors agreement
to pit things on hold?

Will Trump's pulling out. be interpreted as a win, at the expense expense of Kim, or vice versa?

Or is this leading to the only available exit route according to some executive observers, WAR?

How does this play onto Kim's supposed long found sincerity, after decades of nuclear blackmail?
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

Are there any changes in this whole momentous occasion, where NK and the U.S. are said to be on the verge of a geo political solution to an outstanding problem of 50 plus years of ideological conflict?

Or are there hidden variables , almost unfathomable to conceive?

For starters, no peace treaty was ever signed signed, so the two Koreas are technically still at war.The armistice lasting this long is commendable , however a far cry from the decades old assumption that hostilities could flare up at any time.

There is something deeper and more entangling that the population has access to, and the wag the dog , or something similar keeps echoing in a chamber which seemingly doesn't resonate with a reasonable assessment of whats going on.

The word collusion comes up almost as often then the phrase fake news, and it is increasingly becoming sort of a preface to someone tying some of this rhetoric into a more substantial conglomeration.

Facts filtering in are distressing: Ivanka & co. made 80 million dollars , some of which under government cover.

The actor of Taxi Driver fame Robert Deniro has
come out and publicly announced his disdain in very disrespectful terms.

If Comey' firing generated outrage, it is astounding that the totally impossible scenario has happened: that of the political pressures applied against special council Mueller, and a totally unbelievable war has commenced against the Justice Department and the FBI.

Some of this non chance is the result of propaganda machines working overtime to ACTUALLY collude the internal perception of the difference between the real and the fake . This is what collusion also means; ' to conflate facts from fiction to a degree that is totally prone to confuse The American People

Now here comes a tie in. Suddenly , as if by fiat, the two leaders ( one Fox News Commentator accidentally calling them two dictators).are photographed grinning, as expected from the best of friends. Odd, isn't it, that two contradictory ideologies are miraculously appear as if there never was an iota difference between them, while allies are being persecuted as enemies ?

Can hyper reality finally not notice that there is something tremendously awful going on, and no one seems to be, or unwilling to see more them a bad case of fuzzy logic in play here?

Or, are the American people as dense as the 20 million some NK population who have been brainwashed since time immemorial to believe in anything which would avoid their immediate deatj from starvation or transportation to a gulag?

Does Ukraine. and the more than likely purported collusion with Russia and a supposed HUGE debt owed to some highly placed oligarch regarding some large financial backing, holding ransom to a totalitarian entity , with no going back policy , washed through Deutsche Bank mean anything but some one's bad taste in bringing it public?

Or maybe even deeper than this. an ultimatum given, and dared not to be defied by long practitioners of hostage taking, bribery, ransom posting, and nuclear blackmail , achieving a state of payouts , and repeated breaking of promises ?

Is the conflation a necessary policy to avoid am internal loss of great wealth by various parties within the U.S., or something much worse, the acting upon of the opening of devastating world wide hostilities?

Are the collisions related, and the moves carefully planned, with enough comic relief, to make high level horrifying possibilities, and inhuman display of greed, so common place so that after all, some measure of recompense will satisfy the most ardent of political critics and realists?

These , and many like questions will certainly need some clarification if the U.S. is not to be declassified as a nation of political retards.

Day after summit: Trump was outmoded by Kim, the main declarative agreement have Kim the prestige of achieving the equilazation of having Trump to agree to meet, of having the joint exercises canceled, of having invesotitire in a failing economy, WHILE photo opping broad smiles and expressions of huge deal estate , especially of the hotel kind which would benefit Trump.

What really was achieved: a comforting avoidance of global war, and no substantial method of denuclearization
In fact , what was really gained was a tremendous gain of Kim's face, as a powerful politician at the expense of the opposite to Trump.

As was predicted. If he gets the Nobel prize for this, year's and years of l and political and legal education by the Trump people would have proved worthless and counter productive.But let history be the judge.

OR NOT

Another scenario: Critical point in the developing NWO, the remaining leaning ideologies: of the orient, with incredible investment potential: with China taking over global economic superiority-on the verge of overtaking the U S , are far more important , as a focus for a new partnership. Most post ww2
and Berlin wall conflicts, with the successful abatement of the latter, were focused on Far East policy, and Europe, whom Bush Sr. called a passed over continent, had become more of a competitive liability then a growing asset.

All the complex plays were nothing but optics, and all of the super elite probably know this.

Trump is acting out of a carefully scripted playbook.

The lavish out of reach parties, are having a riotous fun time with realizing this whole thing is a prelude to another gay 90's recurrent unbridled good times of the haves.

Maybe that's it, naustalgja redux. Let the good times roll.
Last edited by Meno_ on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: North Korea in good faith?

I just can't wait for the trade delegations to come out of this. North Korea is an untapped nation concerning trade for the west. Think about all the untapped opportunities and resources for profit to be made here.

What North Korea needs is a western style controlled central bank. I can't wait for institutions like the World Bank or International Monetary Fund to get involved in this nation.
"I'm sorry, but the lifestyle you've ordered that you've grown accustomed to is completely out of stock. Have a nice day! "-$$Zero_Sum Evil Neo-Nazi Extraordinaire. Posts: 2759 Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:05 pm Location: U.S.S.A- Newly lead Bolshevik Soviet block. Also known as Weimar America. Re: North Korea in good faith? Deleted for premature access to -real information- Last edited by Meno_ on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total. Meno_ ILP Legend Posts: 5580 Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am Location: Mysterium Tremendum Re: North Korea in good faith? Pres. Trump nominated for Nobel Prize by two Norwegians, well the icing to the cake. It ain't over till its over5. Meno_ ILP Legend Posts: 5580 Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am Location: Mysterium Tremendum Re: North Korea in good faith? Rabbi Shekelstein wrote:I just can't wait for the trade delegations to come out of this. North Korea is an untapped nation concerning trade for the west. Think about all the untapped opportunities and resources for profit to be made here. What North Korea needs is a western style controlled central bank. I can't wait for institutions like the World Bank or International Monetary Fund to get involved in this nation. Do north koreans have rocks? If so, do they know how to use and proliferate rocks, stones, etc. ? Dan~ ILP Legend Posts: 10085 Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:14 am Location: May the loving spirit of papa hitler watch over and bless you all. Re: North Korea in good faith? Now rocks they may have but they also may have brains .All this talk about North Korea's humble pie new found honesty is nothing but a bunch of ruses, in fact the tete-a-yet was not with NK but it major backer China. Right after the show for all foto ops, tarrifs were raised any high, Thank Heaven s the intellectual property theft has become magnanimous my transparent. Add anither depth to the already murky summer of 2018, which I believe will go down in history big time. Meno_ ILP Legend Posts: 5580 Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am Location: Mysterium Tremendum Re: North Korea in good faith? So far, the Trump/Kim dealings haven't moved beyond the level of pageantry and photo ops. Ultimately, i have no idea what this will all amount to, but there is no shortage of reasons to be skeptical. The pageantry and photo-ops may have been the only point of the summit. The meeting was arranged hastily and impulsively (at least relative to other diplomatic overtures of this scale) and benefited both leaders immensely in the eyes of their people, despite the fact that nothing of substance came out of the talks. It was a big political win for Trump, who is looking to rack up some president-points in advance of the US midterm elections (which might otherwise turn out bad for his party). Kim Jong Un, for his part, just had his standing on the world stage magnified exponentially - and his legitimacy as a leader solidified among the rest of the world. A face to face meeting with a US president is a major geopolitical coup for him - and the opportunities to spin the event via his state run media (the only media available to the vast majority of N Korean people) are limitless. Further, Trump himself has admitted that the whole thing could conceivably fall through (though almost certainly NOT prior to the midterm elections in November). But again, who knows? Maybe there actually will be a comprehensive deal to emerge from this - yet even if there is, there are absolutely NO guarantees that N. Korea will actually do what it promises and may even pretend to do. First, unlike Iran, N. Korea already has nuclear weapons, which means that, even if it honors a denuclearization agreement, it can subsequently restart it's nuclear production at anytime. It has the know-how and the technological resources. Second, N. Korea itself is a mountainous country, with a vast number of places to stash weapons and hide production facilities and laboratories. Inspections thorough enough to confirm that it has actually denuclearized are probably impossible, even if Kim agrees to them, which is unlikely (again, a stark contrast with the Iranian deal). Third, both leaders have amply demonstrated that their primary concern is their own standing as leaders, rather than the welfare of those they lead or the broader has invested massive amounts of time, money and political capital in their weapons program, which would seem to undermine whatever incentive they might receive to do away with that program. Maybe the whole building-nukes thing was just an elaborate way of obtaining a diplomatic bargaining chip to use against the rest of the world, but that seems a bit far-fetched. Finally, neither leader has shown any personal concern for the welfare of those they lead of the overall good of their respective countries, meaning that on a personal level, following through with a deal isn't all that crucial to them achieving their goals. These are the uncertainties that arise in the course of major-dealings between unstable, childish sociopaths whose central preoccupation is with boosting their own status and celebrity. Again and again, these two boys have displayed a total lack of anything even resembling basic human sympathy for any people other than themselves. Why would they give up the leverage they hold over one another? Given a choice, that's not the sort of thing macho-posturing denizens of the geopolitical schoolyard generally do. i am brilliant, you are stupid. Therefore, you are wrong. uglypeoplefucking Philosopher Posts: 4147 Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:47 pm Location: throughout Re: North Korea in good faith? Latest: All the hoopla surrounding the historic Kim-Trump summit , and now ? NK nuclear facilities are shown by intelligence photos to have renewed work on them, as if the summit never happened! Nobel prize for Trump? -NOT! Meno_ ILP Legend Posts: 5580 Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:39 am Location: Mysterium Tremendum Re: North Korea in good faith? Dan~ wrote: Rabbi Shekelstein wrote:I just can't wait for the trade delegations to come out of this. North Korea is an untapped nation concerning trade for the west. Think about all the untapped opportunities and resources for profit to be made here. What North Korea needs is a western style controlled central bank. I can't wait for institutions like the World Bank or International Monetary Fund to get involved in this nation. Do north koreans have rocks? If so, do they know how to use and proliferate rocks, stones, etc. ? Rare earth materials, think electronics. "I'm sorry, but the lifestyle you've ordered that you've grown accustomed to is completely out of stock. Have a nice day! "-$$$Zero_Sum Evil Neo-Nazi Extraordinaire. Posts: 2759 Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:05 pm Location: U.S.S.A- Newly lead Bolshevik Soviet block. Also known as Weimar America. Re: North Korea in good faith? We need North Korea as a playing card of retaliation to force China to keep on buying up all our worthless government IOU's. "I'm sorry, but the lifestyle you've ordered that you've grown accustomed to is completely out of stock. Have a nice day! "-$

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Re: North Korea in good faith?

North Korea approaxhed Iran in 1999 to let them know they could sell nukes to Iran so that they could be nuked and asked for a billion ransom.

If all the hoopla about summit between US and Korea, what a blunder and loss of faith for US, and who is playing whom? Is it a mockery or, something vastly more peculiar?

Certainly, gives pause to give. US intelligence a pretty naive and inept Or, is it?
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