Tribalism

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Tribalism

Postby Bob » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:27 pm

Tribalism is the biggest threat to human existence.

We have the technological resources to create a global society, but tribalism is growing in many countries of the world, and has remained in other countries, so that the slim chance of us growing together and accepting the differences is disappearing.

Tribalism is often violent, so what outlook can we have with regard to the future?

Any thoughts?
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Zero_Sum » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:00 pm

Tribalism is great, I don't want to live in your global society or gulag.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:21 am

Good morning Bob

Seems my little grey cells wanted to work on the puzzle you present ... I read your post just before going to bed. :-)

Here's the output:

1) The social construct known as tribalism emerged as a survival mechanism.

2) As human life became increasingly complex the tribalism social construct was compelled to keep pace.

3) Tribalism as a social construct remains robust today though the lines are blurred.

4) Globalism is failing because the champions took the tribalism blue print and stamped it on to their globalism strategies.

5) Political awareness has achieved the level that makes 4) impossible.

I penned the following words a few hours before you posted this OP.

Food for thought.

Perhaps we are guilty of falling victim to the axiom “You can’t see the forest for the trees”.

We should acknowledge the merit of Western aggression … this aggression brought us to where we are today … an auspicious situation. The human family is interconnected … as in the Biblical fable … the tower of Babel.

A necessary first step for a giant leap forward in the Evolution of Being.

The above mentioned blessing has no utility without some ‘force’ to assist the human family up onto the next step of transformation.

Enter the Chinese element of the human family. Chinese feudalism was preserved for 2,000 years precisely that it may be available today to play an important role … yet no more important than the role of Western aggression to this point in time.

I’ve been living in China for almost 13 years. An observation that continues to bring joy to my heart is the local villagers burying cabbage in the fall and digging it up through the winter and spring. A practice undoubtedly learned from animals a very very long time ago. There is no apparent need to continue the practice … where I live is moderately prosperous. It seems to support one of the pillars of Chinese civilization … frugality.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:54 am

Zero_Sum wrote:Tribalism is great, I don't want to live in your global society or gulag.

so you are quite happy to be destructive rather that constructive?
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:04 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Good morning Bob

Good morning Tom, :D

Seems my little grey cells wanted to work on the puzzle you present ... I read your post just before going to bed. :-)

Here's the output:

1) The social construct known as tribalism emerged as a survival mechanism.

I would agree with that, and at certain stages in history, it has been necessary.

2) As human life became increasingly complex the tribalism social construct was compelled to keep pace.

Were they compelled? Yes. But happy with it? No. It seems as though the decisions that have been warranted through experience a hundred years ago are rising to influence decisions in a completely different situation. On the other hand, some societies are calling up visions of Grandeur from the past, prominently the Turks, but also the American President, but they ignore the suffering that was around then. There has been, despite the impressions we get from Media, a steady decline in deaths and casualties in wars and domestic violence - except in certain countries - over time. Mainly it was the overcoming of tribalism and bonding together in cooperation that has brought this development forward. Some people resented this and held on to their tribalism, even hiding it for a while.

3) Tribalism as a social construct remains robust today though the lines are blurred.

Yes, as I have explained above. For a time tribalism lowered its head and looked almost resolved to go along with the developments in the world, but it was always prepared to disturb developments, if it felt it needed to. In this way, it has almost been a case of self-fulfilling prophecy as the global spread of democracy was continually interrupted.

4) Globalism is failing because the champions took the tribalism blue print and stamped it on to their globalism strategies.

The Globalism imposed on the world after WWII was embraced in part, but not wholly, by the west. Only when the 60's changed the world, was Globalism veiled by the sub-cultural revolution that took place. So this became also helpful in overcoming the borders to the east, although slowly, but caused unrest in the Moslem societies. The cold war then took its toll and caused the uprising of extremist tribalism, which even reached America and Russia and led to even more unrest and war.

It was the fact that Globalism was actually trying to impose on cultures, rather than be an inclusive movement, that made the confrontation last even after the cold war, and today we see that it may even start a new confrontation, after a few years of détente.

5) Political awareness has achieved the level that makes 4) impossible.

Unfortunately the political awareness of the information-society is being intervened upon, and we are finding ourselves unsure of what is true. In fact, we have lost faith in any organisation to not put some kind of spin on a news-release. This spin has the prime intention of presenting a piece of news from one perspective - a perversion of what journalism should be doing. Unfortunately all sources seem to try adapt their reporting to allow for the spin of the other, in order to turn public opinion, rather than reporting both sides of an argument.

I penned the following words a few hours before you posted this OP.

Food for thought.

Perhaps we are guilty of falling victim to the axiom “You can’t see the forest for the trees”.

We should acknowledge the merit of Western aggression … this aggression brought us to where we are today … an auspicious situation. The human family is interconnected … as in the Biblical fable … the tower of Babel.

A necessary first step for a giant leap forward in the Evolution of Being.

The above mentioned blessing has no utility without some ‘force’ to assist the human family up onto the next step of transformation.

Enter the Chinese element of the human family. Chinese feudalism was preserved for 2,000 years precisely that it may be available today to play an important role … yet no more important than the role of Western aggression to this point in time.

I’ve been living in China for almost 13 years. An observation that continues to bring joy to my heart is the local villagers burying cabbage in the fall and digging it up through the winter and spring. A practice undoubtedly learned from animals a very very long time ago. There is no apparent need to continue the practice … where I live is moderately prosperous. It seems to support one of the pillars of Chinese civilization … frugality.

The aggression of the recent past has managed to make the world very complicated, rather than just complex. The damage that the cold war caused is underrated, since it very often prevented the rise of moderate voice in countries where today extremists rule. In fact it promoted those who later became a threat (e.g. Bin Laden) and caused the anti-American sentiment that is around today. Because Russia has retained the aggressor role, this doesn't disturb them so much.

The biggest problem with the constructive movements, who try to spread "good" behind the aggressive intervention of Globalism, is that it is often very naive to the point that they forget that people need reassurance that it won't go wrong. Because this is regularly neglected, it gives rise to fear and consequently promotes tribalism, which is contra-productive for their causes. This means that these constructive agencies, often labelled "left" or "liberal", actually beat themselves. It isn't enough to have a good cause, or to have thought things through, if you can't win those who are worried that their tribe is going to be imposed upon. In fact, even though they may have been part of the inflictions upon others, they are concerned about their tribe.

Without convincing them, all the good in the world will not come to be.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:05 am

Bob ... you obviously have a much better grasp of the historic detail ... details have always confused me. :-)

One of your comments jumped off the screen:

The biggest problem with the constructive movements, who try to spread "good" behind the aggressive intervention of Globalism, is that it is often very naive to the point that they forget that people need reassurance that it won't go wrong.


Reminded me of a personal experience involving a community of 350 people in Nunavut ... the Canadian Arctic.

I took on the job of Senior Administration Officer reporting to the mayor and town council. The injustice(s) in this small isolated community were beyond appalling. A direct result of culture/social constructs having been imposed on the local tribes for the past 70 years or so.

Being the naive sort I jumped right in and attempted ... using a conciliatory approach ... to facilitate healing and reconciliation ... almost did me in within 4 months ... took me 3 years to recover.

One day shortly before I left a local middle aged woman explained the situation ... she said we can't support you because we don't know if you will stay ... ergo ... to see through some of the stuff you talk about.

The aggressive/oppressed segments of the community echoed your comment that people need reassurance that it won't go wrong.

Perhaps the underlying fear you mentioned in your above comment prompted the recent changes in the terms for Chinese leadership.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:24 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Bob ... you obviously have a much better grasp of the historic detail ... details have always confused me. :-)

One of your comments jumped off the screen:

The biggest problem with the constructive movements, who try to spread "good" behind the aggressive intervention of Globalism, is that it is often very naive to the point that they forget that people need reassurance that it won't go wrong.


Reminded me of a personal experience involving a community of 350 people in Nunavut ... the Canadian Arctic.

I took on the job of Senior Administration Officer reporting to the mayor and town council. The injustice(s) in this small isolated community were beyond appalling. A direct result of culture/social constructs having been imposed on the local tribes for the past 70 years or so.

Being the naive sort I jumped right in and attempted ... using a conciliatory approach ... to facilitate healing and reconciliation ... almost did me in within 4 months ... took me 3 years to recover.

One day shortly before I left a local middle aged woman explained the situation ... she said we can't support you because we don't know if you will stay ... ergo ... to see through some of the stuff you talk about.

The aggressive/oppressed segments of the community echoed your comment that people need reassurance that it won't go wrong.

Perhaps the underlying fear you mentioned in your above comment prompted the recent changes in the terms for Chinese leadership.

Although I haven't experienced this quite so drastically, I have experienced what you mentioned.

I was once in a Christian community that wanted to reach out to people. I was one of those who jumped at the possibility to speak to people, and we were quite successful because we addressed them on a personal level. It was soon very clear that many people were alone and insecure, and would be glad at having a community with which they could spend time or from which they could be visited. I took this back to the community and it was embarrassing to see how the elders baulked at having to show some compassion and reach out. In those days there was a lot of talk about evangelism and wanting to "save" people, but to my mind it was more than having people "to take on Jesus as a personal Saviour". It was about spreading the love that was at the core of Christian teaching. The community was concerned that we were bringing people in with no knowledge of their past, and that it could go very wrong. I wasn't able to convince them that this was what "faith" is about.

I have had similar experiences in a non-confessional context, when people wanted to help a group of people, but were afraid of their convictions. There is often a lot of talk, but when someone actually gets pragmatic it becomes a problem. Being pragmatic has also meant that I have begun warning people to think through their intentions before they go ahead. Are they prepared to go down that road? Are they aware of the consequences? If not, I have regularly suggested they sleep on it. Very often it fell through.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:04 pm

Seems we agree that tribalism has been ... and continues to be ... a thorny issue in the evolution of the human species.

What about the Evolution of Being?

How do we differentiate?

What role has nature played?

For example ... nature placed the easy to extract oil in the Middle East ions ago ... the human appetite for oil only emerged a century or so ago.

Would we have problems in the Middle East today if there was no oil there?
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Zero_Sum » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:17 pm

Bob wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Tribalism is great, I don't want to live in your global society or gulag.

so you are quite happy to be destructive rather that constructive?

I prefer creative destruction. You can't create without some destruction first.

Creation, destruction, and rebirth. You can try to fight nature but in the end you can't.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:37 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:
Bob wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Tribalism is great, I don't want to live in your global society or gulag.

so you are quite happy to be destructive rather that constructive?

I prefer creative destruction. You can't create without some destruction first.

Creation, destruction, and rebirth. You can try to fight nature but in the end you can't.

Unfortunately we find ourselves in a steady entropy and it is the constructive side of our character that opposes this development and puts it off.

That means that destruction is what happens if you do nothing, but to be constructive you have to become active. This is the challenge of human existence and the only hope we can provide. It is also the way that nature works on this planet. All life shows us that we are one in our genesis but that we have to sustain our position or be overtaken by natural forces. Creativity is when we manage to interact and connect, making a threat into a resource, developing ways and means to cope.

So just carry on in your supposed "creative destruction" and you will finally be swallowed up and forgotten about by nature.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:06 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Seems we agree that tribalism has been ... and continues to be ... a thorny issue in the evolution of the human species.

What about the Evolution of Being?

Evolution is just the automatic production of life when the conditions are right. It has been our special calling to expand the right conditions to enable more human life, and prolong a period of right conditions. This has meant that we could cultivate and learn from numerous grave mistakes, but survive to learn and develop more.

How do we differentiate?

Tribalism was one phase along that course of development, but one that humanity has outgrown, if we would all but see that. Just as we all began as members of a family and have spread out, widening our perspectives and gaining new experiences, which we can pass on to future generations, so we have to accept that even more perspectives will come with time.

What role has nature played?
Nature has been the trainer, giving us more and more challenges, and remaining very consequent along the way. We have come to the point where we could, if we could overcome the antiquated outlook of tribalism, actually harmonise with nature and enhance our lives with technology. Nature is still raw and dangerous if we forget it is, but it is the source of sustenance and solutions in many ways. We have to combine our mind and body in this attempt to make new progress, promoting empowerment of the individual to harmonise with the rawness of nature, but also using the enhancement of technology to overcome problems that life presents.

For example ... nature placed the easy to extract oil in the Middle East ions ago ... the human appetite for oil only emerged a century or so ago.

We don't have an "appetite" for oil, but we do have a corporate (tribal) protectionism actively preventing us to pass beyond this phase in our development. This is the problem: tribalism is often opposed to development because it fears the unknown, or just doesn't want change. It would rather destroy than harmonise with an outcome it can't control.

Would we have problems in the Middle East today if there was no oil there?

We wouldn't have the same problems, but tribalism is still rampant in the middle-east, so we would probably have other problems.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:04 am

Seems we have a disconnect in our intentions with the use of the word tribalism.

Here's mine ...

the behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.
"a society motivated by cultural tribalism"


1) The Middle East birthed the Abrahamic Religions whose tentacles have enveloped the planet.

2) The Middle East is abundantly endowed with resources that are critical to the survival of the human species.

3) The East remains in play.

For me, the 'how' we got here is not as important as the 'why' we got here ... the future is more important than the past.

While the current trajectory is self evident ... it may very well be misleading.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:19 am

Bob wrote:Unfortunately we find ourselves in a steady entropy and it is the constructive side of our character that opposes this development and puts it off.

That means that destruction is what happens if you do nothing, but to be constructive you have to become active. This is the challenge of human existence and the only hope we can provide. It is also the way that nature works on this planet. All life shows us that we are one in our genesis but that we have to sustain our position or be overtaken by natural forces. Creativity is when we manage to interact and connect, making a threat into a resource, developing ways and means to cope.

So just carry on in your supposed "creative destruction" and you will finally be swallowed up and forgotten about by nature.
[/quote]

Entropy will win in the end [maybe 900 billion years into the future]. A topic for another time.

Who says when I say creative destruction it means doing nothing? On the contrary, creative destruction is quite active and far from doing nothing. No, nature is very much creative-destructive, if anything I am following in the footsteps of nature which is my guide.

I don't think you know enough about my views to make these blanket assumptions. Not very wise at all Bob.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:29 pm

We must rid ourselves from tribalism. But how?

It is said that in the last 100,000 years our brain has remained practically the same, biologically speaking. No evolution by means of natural selection has taken place: cultural evolution has been the dominant force. Therefore, our only hope to improve our brains in any significant way will be through the fourth and next revolution: that of biotechnology. How this could be done remains open to discussion, because there are many ethical, political and moral problems to be solved. However, it seems to us that such a course will be inevitable. The neurosciences will play a leading role in the implementation of this "artificial evolution" of the human brain!


Source: Transcending the Tribal Mind http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n09/tribal_i.htm

Is it a biological challenge or simply a demographic issue?
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Entropy will win in the end [maybe 900 billion years into the future]. A topic for another time.

I was referring to entropy in the widest sense of the word, and I observe entropy moving at different speeds in different circumstances. For example the "creative destruction" of the rain forests are a real threat to air quality and means a degeneration of the basic foundation of human life. That means that the world may indeed be supporting life 900 billion years into the future, it just won't be human.

Who says when I say creative destruction it means doing nothing? On the contrary, creative destruction is quite active and far from doing nothing. No, nature is very much creative-destructive, if anything I am following in the footsteps of nature which is my guide.

Unfortunately tribalism is only about the tribe, and the survival of the fittest is its creed. That may be called following nature, but it isn't what humanity is about. Progress is made when we interact with and learn from each other. When you come to realise that medicine is re-discovering methods that have been around for 2,500 years, through adding Ayurveda and TCM to relieve pain and distress and to balance diets, using Yoga to reduce pain and improve movement, we get an idea of how one-sided the West has been over the last thousand years at least. We have a vast diversity of experiences in this world that can all help find the way ahead, if we don't reduce the world to one tribe.

I don't think you know enough about my views to make these blanket assumptions. Not very wise at all Bob.

I'm sure you're right, but you don't seem to expand on your views. Who said I was "wise"?
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:41 pm

Bob wrote:
Entropy will win in the end [maybe 900 billion years into the future]. A topic for another time.

I was referring to entropy in the widest sense of the word, and I observe entropy moving at different speeds in different circumstances. For example the "creative destruction" of the rain forests are a real threat to air quality and means a degeneration of the basic foundation of human life. That means that the world may indeed be supporting life 900 billion years into the future, it just won't be human.

Who says when I say creative destruction it means doing nothing? On the contrary, creative destruction is quite active and far from doing nothing. No, nature is very much creative-destructive, if anything I am following in the footsteps of nature which is my guide.

Unfortunately tribalism is only about the tribe, and the survival of the fittest is its creed. That may be called following nature, but it isn't what humanity is about. Progress is made when we interact with and learn from each other. When you come to realise that medicine is re-discovering methods that have been around for 2,500 years, through adding Ayurveda and TCM to relieve pain and distress and to balance diets, using Yoga to reduce pain and improve movement, we get an idea of how one-sided the West has been over the last thousand years at least. We have a vast diversity of experiences in this world that can all help find the way ahead, if we don't reduce the world to one tribe.

I don't think you know enough about my views to make these blanket assumptions. Not very wise at all Bob.

I'm sure you're right, but you don't seem to expand on your views. Who said I was "wise"?


Well if you must know I am an environmentalist where I have a firm respect for the world's wild and natural habitat.

While I am a nationalist, separatist, and tribalist this doesn't mean that I don't care about others around the world where given the existence of a national socialist state I wouldn't mind trading with other nations or having open diplomatic dialogue with them. An isolationist nation state is not necessarily a closed nation from the rest of the world on everything. It just means closed on immigration. I have no problems with international cooperation so long as it is fair and not one sided. I am not a supremacist I just believe that ethnicities and cultures have a right to exist in preserving themselves.

Your level of judgment can only be interpreted as talking down to me where your view you seem to think is superior. Perhaps I could be misinterpreting that with this online text dialogue but that is my impression.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:45 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Seems we have a disconnect in our intentions with the use of the word tribalism.

Here's mine ...

the behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.
"a society motivated by cultural tribalism"


1) The Middle East birthed the Abrahamic Religions whose tentacles have enveloped the planet.

2) The Middle East is abundantly endowed with resources that are critical to the survival of the human species.

3) The East remains in play.

For me, the 'how' we got here is not as important as the 'why' we got here ... the future is more important than the past.

While the current trajectory is self evident ... it may very well be misleading.

Tribalism is the state of existing as a separate tribe or tribes, but it has taken on an extremist version (like so many other opinions around the world) and objects to interaction and exchange of views with other tribes. It seems to claim that it is pure, and others are in danger of poisoning that purity. The tribe is not only to be understood in its colloquial sense, but as a metaphor for any group that separates and glorifies itself above others.

The common example is Nazi-Germany and the idea of Aryan "nobility". However, there have been other and are examples but they all are in danger of making the same mistake.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:51 pm

Bob wrote:Tribalism is the state of existing as a separate tribe or tribes, but it has taken on an extremist version (like so many other opinions around the world) and objects to interaction and exchange of views with other tribes. It seems to claim that it is pure, and others are in danger of poisoning that purity. The tribe is not only to be understood in its colloquial sense, but as a metaphor for any group that separates and glorifies itself above others.

The common example is Nazi-Germany and the idea of Aryan "nobility". However, there have been other and are examples but they all are in danger of making the same mistake.


The national socialism I have in mind is nothing like its 1930's counterpart, the one I have in mind is more evolved, intelligent, and enlightened. I have no intention of making the same mistakes of the 1930's. Ideologies must adapt and evolve with changing times where my vision of national socialism is no different. While I may be viewed by others as being an extremist on many subjects I try my best to be fair and balanced on others.

Nonetheless we're under siege by those who proclaim that they want to annihilate whiteness and destroy all semblance of European culture. I didn't start this war or conflict but I'll be damn if I'll just rollover to that. We as a people have a right to exist, preserve our traditions, and survive. Nothing will take that away from us. I am not concerned with purity in so much I am concerned with preserving our identity and existence.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:03 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:Well if you must know I am an environmentalist where I have a firm respect for the world's wild and natural habitat.

While I am a nationalist, separatist, and tribalist this doesn't mean that I don't care about others around the world where given the existence of a national socialist state I wouldn't mind trading with other nations or having open diplomatic dialogue with them. An isolationist nation state is not necessarily a closed nation from the rest of the world on everything. It just means closed on immigration. I have no problems with international cooperation so long as it is fair and not one sided. I am not a supremacist I just believe that ethnicities and cultures have a right to exist in preserving themselves.

Your level of judgment can only be interpreted as talking down to me where your view you seem to think is superior. Perhaps I could be misinterpreting that with this online text dialogue but that is my impression.

I have no problems with environmentalists, since I am convinced that the biggest mistake of mankind is to think he came "into" the world, rather than coming out of it. The best way for mankind would be to harmonise with and enhance nature to his own needs. However, there is no one ethnicity or culture that has any authority to lead us into such a future. We would have to get all of our heads together to ensure the survival of the human race.

Instead there is "creative destruction" by which the way we intervene in nature is much the same way we cut human beings open to heal them. It always leaves more that superficial scars, and is never really healed. In fact, the creative processes that need to destroy natural resources first, oversee that whereas a human being can produce children, the planet cannot. I have perfect faith in the planets ability to survive humanity, but no faith in humanities ability to survive, unless we stop competing with each other and start innovating to harmonise with nature.

Your nationalist views are short-sighted, since the American-driven globalism turned the world into a global village long ago, and a return to a world where nations remained within borders is not going to happen. Not that they ever did. You just need to have a genetic check up to realise where your predecessors came from. Normally we have ancestors from all over the planet. It was generally when people were restricted to tribal areas that problems began.

I must concede that I am judgemental, part of my INFJ nature I'm afraid.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:26 pm

Bob wrote:
Zero_Sum wrote:Well if you must know I am an environmentalist where I have a firm respect for the world's wild and natural habitat.

While I am a nationalist, separatist, and tribalist this doesn't mean that I don't care about others around the world where given the existence of a national socialist state I wouldn't mind trading with other nations or having open diplomatic dialogue with them. An isolationist nation state is not necessarily a closed nation from the rest of the world on everything. It just means closed on immigration. I have no problems with international cooperation so long as it is fair and not one sided. I am not a supremacist I just believe that ethnicities and cultures have a right to exist in preserving themselves.

Your level of judgment can only be interpreted as talking down to me where your view you seem to think is superior. Perhaps I could be misinterpreting that with this online text dialogue but that is my impression.

I have no problems with environmentalists, since I am convinced that the biggest mistake of mankind is to think he came "into" the world, rather than coming out of it. The best way for mankind would be to harmonise with and enhance nature to his own needs. However, there is no one ethnicity or culture that has any authority to lead us into such a future. We would have to get all of our heads together to ensure the survival of the human race.

Instead there is "creative destruction" by which the way we intervene in nature is much the same way we cut human beings open to heal them. It always leaves more that superficial scars, and is never really healed. In fact, the creative processes that need to destroy natural resources first, oversee that whereas a human being can produce children, the planet cannot. I have perfect faith in the planets ability to survive humanity, but no faith in humanities ability to survive, unless we stop competing with each other and start innovating to harmonise with nature.

Your nationalist views are short-sighted, since the American-driven globalism turned the world into a global village long ago, and a return to a world where nations remained within borders is not going to happen. Not that they ever did. You just need to have a genetic check up to realise where your predecessors came from. Normally we have ancestors from all over the planet. It was generally when people were restricted to tribal areas that problems began.

I must concede that I am judgemental, part of my INFJ nature I'm afraid.


This globalism you speak of is collapsing on itself moreover it is a perversion of nature's natural biodiversity in human beings if you want to be complicated. This globalism menace is not true diversity and for you to argue such is silly. As for the American empire it is in deep decline and stagnation where it also will collapse in on itself. I see the collapse of globalism and this potemkin global village as a liberating experience since overall it is unsustainable.

Yes, I too believe we should coexist with nature and the natural parts of our planet harmoniously believe it or not. On the contrary my views on nationalism isn't short sighted at all in that I always think about the long term big picture of things. I know exactly where my ancestors hail from historically, do you?

I am no fan of western colonialism from early historical eras and am familiar with the atrocities committed which were tragic or horrific that I sympathize but one past atrocity should not beget more atrocities going fourth into the future to the eradication of an entire group of people from the face of the entire planet. What makes that position at all justified? Yes, your globalist ambitions are very biased.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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Re: Tribalism

Postby Bob » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:26 pm

Zero_Sum wrote:This globalism you speak of is collapsing on itself moreover it is a perversion of nature's natural biodiversity in human beings if you want to be complicated. This globalism menace is not true diversity and for you to argue such is silly. As for the American empire it is in deep decline and stagnation where it also will collapse in on itself. I see the collapse of globalism and this potemkin global village as a liberating experience since overall it is unsustainable.

I'm not arguing that globalism is diversity, but that it caused the spread of many ethnic groups across the globe and thereby spread ideas and cultures. The natural interaction of cultures, especially when neighbours, has always led to an exchange of ideas. The historical development of cultures was never pure but made up of a mixture of stories and myths, philosophies and beliefs. In the end it was that which seemed true to reality that survived. It is curious to see how some Christian nationalists can't see their own dilemma when they condemn semitic people (Arabs are Semites) and yet their own religion comes from that part of the world.

The global village is collapsing, I agree on that, but mainly because tribalism is growing. The problem is that because of the spread of cultures across the globe, tribalism will lead to conflict rather than a growing understanding of each others perspective, and will be destructive in the long run.

Yes, I too believe we should coexist with nature and the natural parts of our planet harmoniously believe it or not. On the contrary my views on nationalism isn't short sighted at all in that I always think about the long term big picture of things. I know exactly where my ancestors hail from historically, do you?

I don't think you really know where your genetic ancestors come from - people generally don't. I haven't taken the test myself, but then again, I welcome such diverse ancestors. The big picture is about the "God perspective", and what our petty struggles look like "from a distance". We are able to project our mind and look down. Tribalism looks pretty dumb from up there.

I am no fan of western colonialism from early historical eras and am familiar with the atrocities committed which were tragic or horrific that I sympathize but one past atrocity should not beget more atrocities going fourth into the future to the eradication of an entire group of people from the face of the entire planet. What makes that position at all justified? Yes, your globalist ambitions are very biased.

I have no globalist ambitions, in fact I regret that it started, but now that we're in it, we have to find a way through it. We can't go back, as we never have been able in the past. When people had the feeling they had gone back, it was always with great losses.
The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless.
TS Eliot
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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:51 pm

China ready to fight 'bloody battle' against enemies, Xi says in speech


Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/19/asia ... index.html

Tribalism temperature rising??
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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Re: Tribalism

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:16 am

Yeap! ... tribalism temperature is rising ... is it in the red zone yet??

Why we don’t respect the West anymore


Source: http://thesaker.is/why-we-dont-respect- ... must-read/
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

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