time travel?

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time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:52 pm

Through the grapevine I heard of a method for time travel, to do with interference of magnetic and electric wheels at a certain angle, I won't divulge. But sources are kind of reliable and I figure since it is clear that time-space is a 4D object, it might be possible to go hin und her inside of it.

What are your thoughts, if you have ever had any, on the subject of time travel? A determinist will, likely, think of it as impossible, but on the other hand pure determinism already predicates a certain specific outcome, so it wouldn't necessarily be a problem at first.

On the other hand when time travel arises in a deterministic universe, causes and effects can exchange places. So you need more of a correspondence based compulsion for events to flow from each other than a billiard ball model; events need to me "meaningful" in terms of each other to occur.

?
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Re: time travel?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:14 pm

Time travel can only be done in parallel universes.

If you travelled to your EXACT past, you'd just be you in the past EXACTLY, with no memory of having time travelled.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:39 pm

Recoverable.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:42 pm

Ecmandu wrote:Time travel can only be done in parallel universes.

If you travelled to your EXACT past, you'd just be you in the past EXACTLY, with no memory of having time travelled.

Either that, or the new past eliminates the old past and alters the future, or things just arent so strict and time is more of an astral environment than a causal one.

That would explain why we don't learn from history and why there are gaps in evolution.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Dan~ » Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:10 pm

I think time is a rate of vibration.
Really slowly vibrating materials experience time more slowly.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:02 pm

Dan~ wrote:I think time is a rate of vibration.
Really slowly vibrating materials experience time more slowly.



This goes along with the view of crystal memory coding:



'Is the universe like a flip book? Physicists say new theory of how seconds pass could help make time travel a reality'









'Physicists say time operates in units and is not a constant flow'

'Static' units of time stack up to give the impression of time flowing'

'Researchers say effect is similar to impression given by a flicker book'

'Theory suggests that time travel could be possible, if discrete fixed moments in time exist that can be pinpointed in the future'

'We think of time as flowing seamlessly like a river from the present and into the future - but scientists claim this isn't the case'



'Quantum physicists argue that time operates in discrete units.'

'They say these 'static' units of time then stack up to give the impression of time flowing in a similar way to a flicker book, or a film.'

'The theory suggests that time travel could be possible, if discrete fixed moment in time exist that can be pinpointed in the future.' 

'Quantum physicists argue that it may be possible to divide time into the smallest unit physically possible. They say these 'static' units of time then stack up to give the impression of time flowing in a similar way to a flicker book, or a film'

Plank' Constant

'In 1990, researchers introduced the idea of the Planck Constant, named after German theoretical physicist Max Planck.'

'This describes the behaviour of particles and waves on the atomic scale, and breaks down time into the lowest possible unit of 10-43 seconds.'

'....this ultimate limit means that it is not possible for two events to be separated by a time smaller than this.'

(this would explain the curvature of space time per Einstein's general relativity, which reduces to the Leibnitz idea of limits of apprehension between the nominally arguable hypothetical, through which the contingently arguable objects evolve.)



'It also lends weight to the theory that there are earlier versions of ourselves trapped in a particular time-frame.'

(however, these 'selves' if we can call than that, are more etheric forms rather than descriptive of the constantly changing image related selves we are used to understand.)


'....and, This proposal makes physical reality platonic in nature,' he said, referring to Plato's argument that true reality exists independent of our senses.'

'However, unlike other theories of platonic idealism, our proposal can be experimentally tested and not just be argued for philosophically.'

{Implications- with the accelerating time apprehension due to the collusion with scientific epistemology, the idea of identifiable reducible factors become increasingly vague and tenuous. Perhaps axiom is the general factor to disavail the idea of Being where existence is the primary onthogenetic foundation.


That may be a foreshadow of the religious meaning of the Fall.
The absolute is never reached, and that assures a non appearent continuity among 'parrallel universes'.}


Note: bracketed items are mine.
Last edited by Meno_ on Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:10 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:09 pm

Phys.org reports that the team believe time is more like a crystal structure, made up of discrete, regularly repeating segments.

Therefore , 'The theory suggests that time travel could be possible, if discrete fixed moment in time exist that can be pinpointed in the future'
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Re: time travel?

Postby Persefonie » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:40 pm

Hello.

Time travel you say?

Got wormhole?

Nice Black One will do even.

No worries, you bois r welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8lBIcHre0
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Re: time travel?

Postby Silhouette » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:38 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Through the grapevine I heard of a method for time travel, to do with interference of magnetic and electric wheels at a certain angle, I won't divulge. But sources are kind of reliable and I figure since it is clear that time-space is a 4D object, it might be possible to go hin und her inside of it.

What are your thoughts, if you have ever had any, on the subject of time travel? A determinist will, likely, think of it as impossible, but on the other hand pure determinism already predicates a certain specific outcome, so it wouldn't necessarily be a problem at first.

On the other hand when time travel arises in a deterministic universe, causes and effects can exchange places. So you need more of a correspondence based compulsion for events to flow from each other than a billiard ball model; events need to me "meaningful" in terms of each other to occur.

?

What would a determinist have against the idea that time travel is impossible, based solely on Determinism? If something can cause time travel to be possible, surely that wouldn't violate Determinism.

Logic, however, presents issues - at least with time travel back to the past. If you change the past, you change the conditions that lead up to your time travel back into that past, changing the exact manner of your time travel into the past, further changing the conditions that lead up to your time travel back into the past - and so on. An infinite feedback loop of timelines are required to cover all of these permutations, which begs the question of how you create an infinite number of universes where these alternative timelines occur. If infinite timelines in infinite parallel universes already exist, there are immediate problems in proving they do, and if they did, statistically it's certain that infinite people from other universe timelines have already travelled to our timeline in our universe an infinite number of times, and continue to do so. If so, they're all keeping remarkably quiet about it - no matter how compelling some mysterious gadget with magnets and angled wheels sounds(!) I hope the mention of such a thing was not intended to lend any credence to your proposal...

Time is more of a suggestion of entropy than a dimension. Space is just doing its thing and rearranging here and there, with a direction of its progression in rearranging itself only really suggested by states of less entropy "becoming" states with more entropy. To go back in time requires a decrease in entropy, which is problematic.

None of this rules out time travel into the future, but then we're all doing that anyway - and to do so at faster than the normal rate just requires that you slow down the entropy of your own system relative to the entropy of your environment e.g. cryogenics. You don't need any sci-fi to do that, except perhaps to unfreeze yourself and live(!)

I think it's more compelling to think of mass as a dimension than time, since mass curves space itself "into" it like a fourth spatial dimension - but that's a different topic.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:06 pm

in finite may not imply absolute variation. The identifiable characteristics of any present day human being dies not exceed the present number of human being alive or 1/8 billion. That limits the needed criteria by which an absolute number can be used.
Even if the intimately variable infinite universal numbers may not, therefore, approach the Leibnitz limit.

Now, if a presuppose curvature is space time equals that which is mathematically drivable, then such would still missed single infitessimal component.

So, then , the proposition of infinity=infinity could not hold, for either demonstrations.

However it is more likely that the curve is multi dimensional other then space and time, and mass more probably then not equivocate time with space

It is like asking if there is absolute vacuum in space that determines time, and thus produce the mass by which it can generate conscious manifestations?

I find both positions arguable.
Therefore, the relation must be based on varience between two relative absolutes, and-contain one by the other, variently, set within as many probable identifiable matrixes as is functionally attainable.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:10 pm

"Logic, however, presents issues - at least with time travel back to the past. If you change the past, you change the conditions that lead up to your time travel back into that past, changing the exact manner of your time travel into the past,"

But see thats a deterministic argument.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:13 pm

If things are more lets say "essentialistic" than deterministic then all kinds of conditions could be changed without the situation of a being being altered in any way that would influence its actions. Limited choice of actions will do that to an extent anyway. So time travel may simply not meet the threshold of causing significant enough change to the way things are.

In other words, time would be rather a vessel than a continuum.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Persefonie » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:41 pm

I dunno....

I guess if you look at things as F=1/t, in combination with the other frequencies (the effects of bodies such as Jupiter, Saturn, and ten Gaia) surrounding point 0 of F, then we were never meant to sense beings on other terra and non terra planets and exoplanets, we aren't compatible in resonance, dats why.

Also t as in time would be different, so the Flower of Life would germinate differently on places such as Venus and Mercury, the Cosmic Harmony would be relevant to the position each planet has around the Sun.

More 'Aetheric' 'Photonic' self replicating substances might be there, might be things we cannot conceive yet, or ever.

On a lighter note I occasionally visage Hermes as a quicksilver dense being that can morph into many forms, a notion that reflects the surface of the planet itself, liquid metal with a silica core much like ours.

Anyway, neat post, fired up some neurons.

Pax et Lux
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:50 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:If things are more lets say "essentialistic" than deterministic then all kinds of conditions could be changed without the situation of a being being altered in any way that would influence its actions. Limited choice of actions will do that to an extent anyway. So time travel may simply not meet the threshold of causing significant enough change to the way things are.

In other words, time would be rather a vessel than a continuum.



which could change along with the characteristic matrix sets within given functional limitations.

Right now, things change with certain derivable frames of reference, but as that rate increases hyperbolically, that toss up may give more weight to essential or determinative results.
The simulation-real dichotomy must at a critical stage offer more and more equivocal results, before saturation is overcome by redundancy.

Otherwise, the procedure-method of determination is necessarily framed into multiplicities of set designations.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Silhouette » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:32 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:If things are more lets say "essentialistic" than deterministic then all kinds of conditions could be changed without the situation of a being being altered in any way that would influence its actions. Limited choice of actions will do that to an extent anyway. So time travel may simply not meet the threshold of causing significant enough change to the way things are.

In other words, time would be rather a vessel than a continuum.

Is this proposition of "essentialistic" following on from your comment about "time-space" being "a 4D object"?

A 4D object that has existence not only across all of each spatial dimension but across all of a temporal one too is not hard to imagine, at least in the abstract, though it's a problem to reconcile thinking of all time at any one given time. One would rather be required to think of either one time at one given time, as we do normally, or somehow all time across all times - to be perfectly consistent concerning this 4D object. Even regardless of your future, if you accept yourself as having been born at any one time, you don't exist across times before then in order to perceive all time at all times. Or perhaps I'm still being too Deterministic here?

Is "limited choice" a separate point to the "Essentialistic" worldview? At least within Determinism, it seems untenable to suggest there can be situations that are limited enough to not cause significant change to the way things are. Particularly with quantum considerations that involve phenomena like entanglement that is not constrained by distance, but also with wave/particle behaviour above the quantum realm being subject to the chaos theory principle of "sensitivity to initial conditions", where even the slightest difference of initial conditions has an exponentially significant impact on changing subsequent events. I'm not sure that an "Essentialistic" worldview can improve upon all the empirical evidence that supports this Deterministic worldview. It needs fleshing out, but even then, to put things in terms that defy causation is somewhat counter to the nature of understanding itself: one understands something to the extent that they know what causes what, no?
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:02 am

"I'm not sure that an "Essentialistic" worldview can improve upon all the empirical evidence that supports this Deterministic worldview. It needs fleshing out, but even then, to put things in terms that defy causation is somewhat counter to the nature of understanding itself: one understands something to the extent that they know what causes what, no?"


Not necessarily, but that doesn't absolutely disqualify re-sourceful requalification.

If, it is sustained by the myths surrounding their tenancy,
If that is difficult enough , then imagine how hard it is to conceive such a state a-posteriori.
In the event that is tried outside of it's own set up, how difficult a job an evolutionary inception could possibly be! (Within even a.
modicum of tenancy)

In terms of a fed back repetitive process)

And then,

"one understands something to the extent that they know what causes what, no?"


Not necessarily, most people do, but some figure that even though unfounded knowledge is insufficient in terms of retaining it's manifold reasons for understanding,, the buried myths below levels of understanding retain some connective strings.

Socrates said,

" I can not make people understand, but only to teach them how to think"
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Re: time travel?

Postby Zero_Sum » Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:49 pm

I wish time travel was possible so I could get the hell out of here.

2500 B.C. Europe sounds nice. The fun I could have, I would like to do some re-writing of global history as well. Global time cops wouldn't be able to stop me. 8)

I would also go back in time to murder John Locke in his sleep with a pillow. After that classical liberalism would be no more. Take that you, liberal bastards! :lol:
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Re: time travel?

Postby Meno_ » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:51 pm

Except You are wrong. There is eternal time travel, if unafraid to fly there.
Course not You individually, but as an enlightened being who is unafraid to morph or reinvent yourself and realize that You are not who you think You are.
That is where karmic effects try to define the effects of a never stopping merry go round, from which you can not get off, even if you decide to checkout.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:09 pm

Silhouette wrote:Is this proposition of "essentialistic" following on from your comment about "time-space" being "a 4D object"?

No, these are entirely unrelated concepts.
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valuator logic

Postby Fixed Cross » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Persefonie wrote:I dunno....

I guess if you look at things as F=1/t, in combination with the other frequencies (the effects of bodies such as Jupiter, Saturn, and ten Gaia) surrounding point 0 of F, then we were never meant to sense beings on other terra and non terra planets and exoplanets, we aren't compatible in resonance, dats why.

Also t as in time would be different, so the Flower of Life would germinate differently on places such as Venus and Mercury, the Cosmic Harmony would be relevant to the position each planet has around the Sun.

More 'Aetheric' 'Photonic' self replicating substances might be there, might be things we cannot conceive yet, or ever.

On a lighter note I occasionally visage Hermes as a quicksilver dense being that can morph into many forms, a notion that reflects the surface of the planet itself, liquid metal with a silica core much like ours.

Anyway, neat post, fired up some neurons.

Pax et Lux

I agree with the principles you're expressing here, though they have less to do with time travel than what I discussed in the other, chemical aliens thread.
Lifeforms are clearly a product of their environment, even though at heart the principle whereby they exist is universal, what I now call "valuator logic", formerly known as "value ontology" and "self-valuing logic".
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Re: time travel?

Postby Silhouette » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:43 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:No, these are entirely unrelated concepts.

Good to know.
Care to embellish a little?
Much to my chagrin I'm not telepathic (nor "telelogic"?).

I'm sure you would class your ideas as original and unconventional, so a little help in translating them would help you spread them more effectively, no?
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Re: time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:26 pm

Silhouette wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:No, these are entirely unrelated concepts.

Good to know.

Glad I was of help.

Care to embellish a little?

I can repeat myself If you wish: No, the two concepts aren't related.

Much to my chagrin I'm not telepathic (nor "telelogic"?).

Oh, haha. A joke.

I'm sure you would class your ideas as original and unconventional,

Which ideas of mine are those? That time space is a 4d object is hardly unconventional and obviously not my own. The "essentialism" term comes from Faust.

You were under the impression that these ideas were mine?

so a little help in translating them would help you spread them more effectively, no?

If you don't understand a thing just come out and say it. No need to pretend you're offering me a favour when you're asking me for one.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Silhouette » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:55 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:If you don't understand a thing just come out and say it. No need to pretend you're offering me a favour when you're asking me for one.

To be clear, I am asking you a favour because I don't understand what you're saying.

I had no intention of coming across as otherwise, my apologies if that's how it turned out.
No need to repeat yourself - I requested embellishment not repetition, if you recall.
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Re: time travel?

Postby Fixed Cross » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:20 am

I don't understand what you want to have embellished.

The "essentialism" thing is probably most interesting to embellish.
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Re: time travel?

Postby obsrvr524 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:48 am

So does anyone here actually believe in time travel or is this another mind game?
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