Is evolution true?

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Is evolution true?

Postby mannikin » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:50 am

Or a very elaborated hoax upon mankind?
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:14 am

A false dichotomy.

The concept of evolution is a valid concept. But unless specially tailored, does not include all that the "the Creator" is (whatever it is that created all that is).

By definition, that which has evolved, is that which was created and thus whatever created that which is, is Evolution, and thus "The Creator", God. But Darwinians struggle with that, wanting there to be no God and yet all credit to a mindless process of elimination of whatever wasn't suited at the time, called Evolution.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby humunculus » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:13 am

mannikin wrote:Or a very elaborated hoax upon mankind?

Who would perpetrate such a hoax, and for what purpose?

Have you actually met any other species? The similarities are inescapable by anyone who wasn't hell-bent on ignoring them.
The only thing people defend more fiercely than their illusion is their denial.
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby mannikin » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:25 pm

James S Saint wrote:A false dichotomy.

The concept of evolution is a valid concept. But unless specially tailored, does not include all that the "the Creator" is (whatever it is that created all that is).

By definition, that which has evolved, is that which was created and thus whatever created that which is, is Evolution, and thus "The Creator", God. But Darwinians struggle with that, wanting there to be no God and yet all credit to a mindless process of elimination of whatever wasn't suited at the time, called Evolution.


if possible, tell me about this creator?
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby James S Saint » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:32 pm

mannikin wrote:if possible, tell me about this creator?

Just to make sure ..
You are asking for me to explain God, The Creator?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Posts: 24442
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Is evolution true?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:40 pm

This is a reasonable question and one that raises pertinent issues.

It cannot be denied that the majority of scientists and teachers believe that evolution is true and a fact and this is based simply on what they have been taught in school and university. Most literature states that evolution is a proven fact, which not surprisingly has most natural history museums displaying evolution as if it is a fact of science. However, if one studies the assertions regarding evolution, they are simply that. Assertions.

It has never been observed in the past and it has never been observed in the laboratory. which leaves evolution far from being a fact of science.

University philosopher Jerry Fodor wrote an article Why Pigs Don’t Have Wings which presents a very strong argument as to why Darwinian type natural selection cannot be an effective basis for species evolution. He also co-authored a book titled What Darwin Got Wrong, he said "Basically I don't think anybody knows how evolution works.

Anyhow, for what it’s worth, I really would be surprised to find out that I was meant to be a hunter-gatherer since I don’t feel the slightest nostalgia for that sort of life. I loathe the very idea of hunting, and I’m not all that keen on gathering either. Nor can I believe that living like a hunter-gatherer would make me happier or better. In fact, it sounds to me like absolute hell. No opera. And no plumbing".

I'll drink to that!
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Pandora » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:33 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEP7Z55Z6nM

This is an interesting video on evolution (if anyone feels like watching one...but you don't have to). One of the counter claims of evolution is that the bones found were not of our ancestors but of deformed/malnourished or sick individuals. Okay, but before we used bones, we used embryo development comparison as proof that we have evolved from lower life forms. How would one disprove that claim?

Also, in regard to not seeing evolution, it has been observed in certain animal populations, and especially in laboratory setting (mentioned in the video)
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby phyllo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:12 pm

It has never been observed in the past and it has never been observed in the laboratory. which leaves evolution far from being a fact of science.
It's routinely observed in agriculture and medicine. Pests adapt to an environment which contains pesticides and the pesticides no longer kill them. Bacteria adapt to antibiotics because of the over-use of antibiotics.
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby humunculus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:21 pm

Consider:
- the structural, chemical and behavioural similarities of all animals, including humans
- the variation in local populations of a single species in different environments
- the changes in generations of domestic species, deliberately affected by human breeders
- the variations on fossil remnants of a recognizably consistent species over long time periods
- the variations on great-ape / early hominid / primitive human progression found in migration patterns all over the world
- the predictable and reliable mechanism of trait transmission from one generation to the next, as elaborated from Mendel's sweat peas,
through laboratory experiments with fruit flies, mice, etc, to modern gene splicing
It has never been observed in the past and it has never been observed in the laboratory.

It has, in fact, been observed widely and copiously, in both places. "The past" for the purpose of this field of study, is deposited in layers of stone that can be geologically dated with great accuracy; the laboratory yields both anatomical information from modern specimens and DNA from ancient ones, as well as the ongoing experimentation.

It cannot be denied that the majority of scientists and teachers believe that evolution is true and a fact and this is based simply on what they have been taught in school and university.

Indeed, it can. Scientists didn't just learn it from previous scientists. Every generation has tested the knowledge, replaced flawed theories with better ones, added to the enormous compendium of available data, used the knowledge to delve deeper into the physio-chemical agencies of heredity and gain increased control over them.

I really would be surprised to find out that I was meant to be a hunter-gatherer

Nobody was "meant" to be anything. A designated purpose would require an intelligence behind the product, and there is quite obviously no intelligence in the design of the human species.
What all living things do is attempt to keep on surviving, and passing on their genes, by whatever means are available in whatever environment they inhabit.
IOW: You do what you have to, not what you may wish to.
I don’t feel the slightest nostalgia for that sort of life.

The effective time-span of nostalgia is three generations, or just under a century. Thirty thousand years is ample time to alter one's taste from fresh kill to opera (though the physical functions that require plumbing have not changed at all).... And yet, men in $3000 suits very frequently still act like jungle animals.
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:37 pm

Shieldmaiden is correct...

The evolution "know-it-alls" are ignorant.

Aside from the concept of growth and adaptation, evolution (defined by speciation) has never been observed, even after billions of generations in laboratories.
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:16 pm

James S Saint wrote:
mannikin wrote:if possible, tell me about this creator?

Just to make sure ..
You are asking for me to explain God, The Creator?


K: James can't explain the "creator" because one doesn't exist....

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wind up with neither."
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The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby humunculus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:11 pm

It doesn't matter how much evidence you show them: the deniers will keep on saying "No, it isn't."
Waste of effort.
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:15 pm

humunculus wrote:It doesn't matter how much evidence you show them: the deniers will keep on saying "No, it isn't."
Waste of effort.


You're being a complete ass.

SPECIATION HAS NEVER BEEN OBSERVED

(That's what evolution is)

In order to get speciation, you need TWO partners with the same phenotype mating (astronomical odds - like more than the known number of stars!!) And then the offspring needs another one.
Do unto yourself and others as you'd do unto yourself if you were them (and you) - Ecmandu's Rule.

Ecmandu's second rule: calculate the set of your argument upon itself before you argue!

Stratification of motivational systems towards conspicuous consumption or extraneous drama cause all human ills - that was the most important thing you'll ever read in your life. - Ecmandu

The biggest problem in life... That more than one person wants the same thing! Solve this, and you have beaten the demon of life!
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:17 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
humunculus wrote:It doesn't matter how much evidence you show them: the deniers will keep on saying "No, it isn't."
Waste of effort.


You're being a complete ass.

SPECIATION HAS NEVER BEEN OBSERVED

(That's what evolution is)

In order to get speciation, you need TWO partners with the same phenotype mating (astronomical odds - like more than the known number of stars!!) And then the offspring needs another one.


Sorry, I meant to say two reproductively sterile partners ...

I was inarticulate
Do unto yourself and others as you'd do unto yourself if you were them (and you) - Ecmandu's Rule.

Ecmandu's second rule: calculate the set of your argument upon itself before you argue!

Stratification of motivational systems towards conspicuous consumption or extraneous drama cause all human ills - that was the most important thing you'll ever read in your life. - Ecmandu

The biggest problem in life... That more than one person wants the same thing! Solve this, and you have beaten the demon of life!
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby humunculus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
In order to get speciation, you need TWO partners with the same phenotype mating (astronomical odds - like more than the known number of stars!!) And then the offspring needs another one.

And your scientific source for this information is.... ?

Sorry, I meant to say two reproductively sterile partners ...

I was inarticulate


You think biologists are universally mistaken about sterile partners having offspring, don't know the difference between incompatibility and phenotype similarity....

and I'm the ass?
.... but then, if I were to mate with a zebra, we could have a beautiful new species of filly.... as long as we kept trying for a boy.
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:26 pm

humunculus wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
In order to get speciation, you need TWO partners with the same phenotype mating (astronomical odds - like more than the known number of stars!!) And then the offspring needs another one.

And your scientific source for this information is.... ?

Sorry, I meant to say two reproductively sterile partners ...

I was inarticulate


You think biologists are universally mistaken about sterile partners having offspring, don't know the difference between incompatibility and phenotype similarity....

and I'm the ass?
.... but then, if I were to mate with a zebra, we could have a beautiful new species of filly.... as long as we kept trying for a boy.


I truncated the thought... Sterile within their own species, but not to each other.

Are you kidding me??

The news of speciation would be like finding life on Jupiter!! Everyone would know it.

Bacteria and viruses have NEVER speciated, even in artificial conditions
Do unto yourself and others as you'd do unto yourself if you were them (and you) - Ecmandu's Rule.

Ecmandu's second rule: calculate the set of your argument upon itself before you argue!

Stratification of motivational systems towards conspicuous consumption or extraneous drama cause all human ills - that was the most important thing you'll ever read in your life. - Ecmandu

The biggest problem in life... That more than one person wants the same thing! Solve this, and you have beaten the demon of life!
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:26 pm

I would be more impressed if you actually use the idea of speciation
correctly...... it works like this......I will use small words so that even
you can understand this....

you have a pack of cougars hanging around a canyon and one fine
day, the pack is accidental divided up with one group going on
one side of the canyon and the other group going to the other side....
one side is hot and dusty, think desert and the other side cold, snowy
windy..... the cougars one the hot side must learn to adapt to the new
conditions which means they must adapt to hot conditions
the animals that best adapt to the new conditions are the MOST
likely one to survive and pass on those traits that allows them to
survive the heat and desert climate.... the cougars that are on
the cold, snowy side must adapt to far different conditions that
means the traits that allow them to survive cold and snowy conditions
most likely will be passed on.... thus longer fur types will survive
better and the trait of having longer fur will MOST likely get passed
on because that accidental trait of having longer fur allows better survival
in cold, winter weather.......it is the passing on of traits that allow survival
that are essential in this idea of evolution..... traits that are accidental like
longer fur or sharper claws or being able to run fast and those traits get
passed on to the next generation which allows each generation to
survive the environmental conditions that the species exist in.....
so cougars that survive have the accidental traits that allow them
to survive either the hot desert or cold winter areas are part of evolution
this idea of speciation comes in when after a certain point in time,
the two packs of cougars cannot create offspring with each other....
this is speciation... when they cannot create offspring with
each other because of difference between the two groups, they
now become two separate species and cannot mate together....
whereas before they were one species and they could mate.....
this is in a nutshell, speciation.......easily observed as Darwin
observed it on the Galapagos islands with birds......
thus you are wrong.... again... and again and again.....


Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby humunculus » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:41 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
Bacteria and viruses have NEVER speciated, even in artificial conditions

And the failure of bacteria to meet your criteria for speciation (or mate, for that matter) proves that all evolutionary theory is wrong...
and should be replaced by - what, exactly?

Supplementary question:
Does this mean we have to throw out all products of genetic research, or just the currently accepted taxonomy?
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby mannikin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:15 pm

James S Saint wrote:
mannikin wrote:if possible, tell me about this creator?

Just to make sure ..
You are asking for me to explain God, The Creator?


Yes, that's correct, James
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:22 pm

humunculus wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Bacteria and viruses have NEVER speciated, even in artificial conditions

And the failure of bacteria to meet your criteria for speciation (or mate, for that matter) proves that all evolutionary theory is wrong...
and should be replaced by - what, exactly?

Supplementary question:
Does this mean we have to throw out all products of genetic research, or just the currently accepted taxonomy?


Of course not. That's why evolution is considered a theory and not a fact.
Do unto yourself and others as you'd do unto yourself if you were them (and you) - Ecmandu's Rule.

Ecmandu's second rule: calculate the set of your argument upon itself before you argue!

Stratification of motivational systems towards conspicuous consumption or extraneous drama cause all human ills - that was the most important thing you'll ever read in your life. - Ecmandu

The biggest problem in life... That more than one person wants the same thing! Solve this, and you have beaten the demon of life!
Ecmandu
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:24 pm

Evolution is a theory?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!


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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Ecmandu » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:27 pm

WendyDarling wrote:Evolution is a theory?


Yes. Theory is a global (universalized) view of a concept, or hypothesis. Evolution is ONLY about speciation, and no person has ever seen it.
Do unto yourself and others as you'd do unto yourself if you were them (and you) - Ecmandu's Rule.

Ecmandu's second rule: calculate the set of your argument upon itself before you argue!

Stratification of motivational systems towards conspicuous consumption or extraneous drama cause all human ills - that was the most important thing you'll ever read in your life. - Ecmandu

The biggest problem in life... That more than one person wants the same thing! Solve this, and you have beaten the demon of life!
Ecmandu
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Posts: 6456
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am

Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:29 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
humunculus wrote:
Ecmandu wrote:
Bacteria and viruses have NEVER speciated, even in artificial conditions

And the failure of bacteria to meet your criteria for speciation (or mate, for that matter) proves that all evolutionary theory is wrong...
and should be replaced by - what, exactly?

Supplementary question:
Does this mean we have to throw out all products of genetic research, or just the currently accepted taxonomy?


Of course not. That's why evolution is considered a theory and not a fact.


K: all scientific theories like gravity and evolution are consider theories.... all of them....
yet, if you want to disprove gravity, go to the nearest rooftop and toss yourself off....
if you live, let me know if the "theory" of gravity is true or not?

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby mannikin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:31 pm

Pretty sure evolution includes micro-evolution not just macro..
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Re: Is evolution true?

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:33 pm

Ecmandu wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:Evolution is a theory?


Yes. Theory is a global (universalized) view of a concept, or hypothesis. Evolution is ONLY about speciation, and no person has ever seen it.



K: now I see the problem... you are completely ignorant of what evolution is....
if you knew anything about evolution (and I explained speciation if you read my post,
then you would know too) you would know that evolution is more then just speciation.
of course this would mean you actually knew what you were talking about and you don't....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"

The RNC has announced that's its changing the Republican emblem from
an elephant to an condom because it more clearly reflects the party's political
stance: a condom stands for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation,
protects a bunch of pricks, and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

Kropotkin
Peter Kropotkin
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Posts: 5550
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