Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

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Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:17 pm

This thread deals with the subject of a heat death of the universe and all other kinds of cosmic extinction like events. It makes you wonder why we're in such a hurry to build an advanced technological civilization across the planet. I mean, what's the point really? The universe is eventually going to die with everything in it. That includes all of humanity by the way. Trying to race against the universe with technological innovation? Don't make me laugh. :lol:

Check out this neat graph.

Image
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:44 pm

The universe and cosmos someday will die along with everything that exists within it ergo, nothing matters.
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:49 pm

    A) There was no Big Bang.
    B) There will be no Heat Death

And the point, priority, and hope in life is simply to make the most of what you have for as long as you can, MIJOT.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:52 pm

James S Saint wrote:
    A) There was no Big Bang.
    B) There will be no Heat Death

And the point, priority, and hope in life is simply to make the most of what you have for as long as you can, MIJOT.


Provide evidence for point A and B.

Hope floats......
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:54 pm

HaHaHa wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
    A) There was no Big Bang.
    B) There will be no Heat Death

And the point, priority, and hope in life is simply to make the most of what you have for as long as you can, MIJOT.


Provide evidence for point A and B.

Hope floats......

I have done that many times. But always on threads that you don't read. It involves detailed math and logic - typically too boring.

What it boils down to is that it is mathematically and logically impossible for the universe to ever be in a state of nothingness .. ever (not to mention that the "beginning of changing" is an oxymoron).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Mictlantecuhtli » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:23 pm

James S Saint wrote:
HaHaHa wrote:
James S Saint wrote:
    A) There was no Big Bang.
    B) There will be no Heat Death

And the point, priority, and hope in life is simply to make the most of what you have for as long as you can, MIJOT.


Provide evidence for point A and B.

Hope floats......

I have done that many times. But always on threads that you don't read. It involves detailed math and logic - typically too boring.

What it boils down to is that it is mathematically and logically impossible for the universe to ever be in a state of nothingness .. ever (not to mention that the "beginning of changing" is an oxymoron).


Threads I don't read? Which ones?

Who said anything about nothingness? I did say something on the lines of nothing matters in the big scheme of things. That's about it.

No, I was speaking about the destruction of the universe and everything in it. Hardly entails nothingness. Please try again.
Civilization is a ship of fools headed to a one way destination of catastrophe and annihilation, its many captains populated by asshole-idiots that all agree it is unsinkable.

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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:27 pm

Joker, don't be a fool.
Image
The Fool.
Aka the Joker.


Joker, reason being is they want to make tech so they can escape the sun exploding. After 5 billion years of tech, they will figure out how to escape the heat-death as well. Most Life-forms have inherent instincts of self-preservation.
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:39 pm

HaHaHa wrote:Threads I don't read? Which ones?

For example:
The Absolute Impossibility of Nothingness - Ever

HaHaHa wrote:Who said anything about nothingness? I did say something on the lines of nothing matters in the big scheme of things. That's about it.

No, I was speaking about the destruction of the universe and everything in it. Hardly entails nothingness. Please try again.

Well okay. You then mean the theory that the entire universe would become merely a field of EMR (uniform "Affectance"). That too is entirely impossible because particles and black holes spontaneously form as depicted below:

Image
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25247
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby surreptitious57 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:50 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
reason being is they want to make tech so they can escape the sun exploding. After 5 billion years of tech they
will figure out how to escape the heat death as well. Most life forms have inherent instincts of self preservation

No tech is going to stop the sun from going red giant when it does. And nothing can survive heat death. There will
be no stars to generate light or heat and the temperature could be only a fraction of a degree above absolute zero
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:07 pm

And the reason that heat death can never actually occur is the following eternal, unavoidable process:
Image

Image
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:24 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:
reason being is they want to make tech so they can escape the sun exploding. After 5 billion years of tech they
will figure out how to escape the heat death as well. Most life forms have inherent instincts of self preservation

No tech is going to stop the sun from going red giant when it does. And nothing can survive heat death. There will
be no stars to generate light or heat and the temperature could be only a fraction of a degree above absolute zero


Bob, its about moving to other regions of space.

Bob, it's about creating machines to generate our own heat.
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:57 pm

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Bob, its about moving to other regions of space.

That part would be largely true, but...

Ultimate Philosophy 1001 wrote:Bob, it's about creating machines to generate our own heat.

.. that part isn't an option.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
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Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Arminius » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:30 am

James S Saint wrote:And the reason that heat death can never actually occur is the following eternal, unavoidable process:
Image

Image

Nice videos. Well done.
Image
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Pandora » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:33 am

Looks like we still have a lot of exploring to do :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoW8Tf7hTGA
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:46 am

Arminius wrote:Nice videos. Well done.

Thank you. They still run a little fast and you really have to see all of it to fully understand how it all fits together, but .. gotta start sumrs.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:50 am

Does this "boil" down to God not being able to off himself?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:11 am

The most popular view among physicists is that the universe goes through a cyclical phase of every Big Bang being
followed by a Big Crunch and so on. And so while heat death can last for a very long time it is not actually infinite
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:39 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:The most popular view among physicists is that the universe goes through a cyclical phase of every Big Bang being
followed by a Big Crunch and so on. And so while heat death can last for a very long time it is not actually infinite

Einstein, among many others disagree. But one serious issue is that such would imply a center to the universe. And that implies an absolute frame of reference, which refutes Relativity entirely.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:51 pm


There are other models : The Big Rip - The Big Freeze - Death Bubbles
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:56 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
There are other models : The Big Rip - The Big Freeze - Death Bubbles

All bogus.

The universe merely keeps changing as if an infinitely large cloud of black holes and galaxies absorbing each other, exploding, drifting, reforming, on and on, never larger nor smaller.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:07 pm

What happens when maximum entropy has been reached and there
is therefore insufficient energy available to perform any more work

Also once black holes stop absorbing matter they evaporate into radiation
They do not carry on expanding forever. That would be a violation of entropy
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:11 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:What happens when maximum entropy has been reached and there
is therefore insufficient energy available to perform any more work

Also once black holes stop absorbing matter they evaporate into radiation
They do not carry on expanding forever. That would be a violation of entropy

"The Law of Entropy" is not THE LAW.

Black holes would grow until all floating matter surrounding them was absorbed and then, if not sooner, they migrate toward each other gaining speed. When they eventually collide, they create more galaxies in a different location. Of course, they don't all have the same timing, so some are still growing when others impact them.

The free radiation that they emit doesn't make up for all of the matter they absorb (obviously, else they wouldn't grow).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby surreptitious57 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:20 pm

Dark energy is causing the space between galaxies to expand away from
each other in all directions so black hole collisions are far less probable
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby James S Saint » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:37 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:Dark energy is causing the space between galaxies to expand away from
each other in all directions so black hole collisions are far less probable

No. It is causing it to appear that way because light bends while going through uneven "dark matter" as well as gaining more red shift. You can't tell how far things are apart merely by looking at them, nor simply by measuring from year to year.

Specifically, the galaxies cause a depletion of the matter between each other. And that causes a thinning of the energy/matter in those regions. The effect of that is that they appear to be further apart as the light is less and less affected. But eventually, they gain no more mass and merely drift toward each other. Actually they were always slightly drifting toward each other as they were absorbing matter.

And that is why you see some black holes spinning around each other and some merely drifting through space.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
James S Saint
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Re: Heat Death Of The Universe And Other Cosmic Extinctions.

Postby Ultimate Philosophy 1001 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:29 pm

Particle physics. Ah the reason scientists tend to be androgynous. Its the notion of being surrounded by balls.
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