Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

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Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby helper » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:35 pm

I hate stupid.
And "delocalized" electrons are stupid.
Yes, each Carbon has 3 electrons to
share with 2 neighbors.
Well, DUH!!
Benzene is a RING!
A CIRCLE!!
All that is necessary is for
each Carbon to share its 3rd electron
one direction and accept one
from the other direction!!
http://users.accesscomm.ca/john/BenzeneE. GIF
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby helper » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:37 pm

http:// users.accesscomm.ca/john/BenzeneE.GIF
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby helper » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:40 pm

Holy shit!!
How do I post a link?
It keeps splitting it!!
http://users.accesscomm.ca/john/BenzeneE.GIF
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby The Golden Turd » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:36 am

You again?

What is your fascination with this, over any other molecule? I gotta say, it is odd for someone to be fixated on a molecule for purely abstract purposes, with no indication of practical application.

I'm not trolling you, not bring hostile, just what to know why your so interested in this, it is about as random as it gets.
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby Pandora » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:37 pm

Do you mean this? (Delocalized molecular orbitals/pi bonds?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSLxoX27Gt4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EFEfVDUp6M

I don't remember this model in school, but I think it's kind of neat, I never really bought the ball and stick model anyway. Looks like a better visualization model to me.

Electrons belonging to certain molecules are not attached to a particular atom or bond in that molecule. These electrons are said to be "delocalized" because they do not have a specific location (are not localized); they cannot be drawn in a simple Lewis structure. Rather, they exist in orbitals that include several atoms and/or bonds. You can imagine these orbitals as clouds surrounding parts of the molecule. Delocalization gives molecules resonance stability, stronger acidiy and based on the resonance stability, we can determine the range of absorbtion of ultraviolet and visible light. of a molecule in the light spectrum. The actual structure with delocalized electrons is called a resonance hybrid.  According the valence-bond theory (resonance hybrids are structures whose forms are a mix of several representable forms. It is a mixture. This occurs because double or triple bonds can form between atoms). One of the many structures, with localized electrons, that are used to represent the hydrid molecule  is called a resonance contributor. Electrons become delocalized in order to stabilize a structure. For example the benzene molecule, C6H6, delocalized electrons to stabilize its structure rather than having alternating double and single bonds, and is frequently drawn as a circle inside a hexagon to represent the shared electrons.  Also,  acetic acid, CH3COOH, has delocalized electrons that stabilize its conjugate base and thus make it acidic.

http://chem.libretexts.org/Core/Physica ... _Electrons

What does this have to do with philosophy? I don't know, but it would probably be a good thing to know if you work in the petroleum refinery business.
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby James S Saint » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:47 pm

Pandora wrote:What does this have to do with philosophy? I don't know

All matter forms via the effort to form anentropic sheltering, "stability". And in that sense, life itself is another form of matter, always attempting to find security, stability, and longevity.

The term "delocalized" is a bit misleading in that it infers that the electron is not actually at any one location, but rather spread out in a hollow cloud. Such isn't actually true although the electron would in fact be a tiny bit more puffed out than an isolated electron would be. When attempting to calculate exactly where the electron would be at any one instant in time, quantum mechanics gives an even probability across the cloud-like region, thus in the mythology call "Quantum Physics", it is said that the electron IS a cloud and exists in the entire cloud-like region at the same time (QP has issues with logic and reality).

But on the other hand, "delocalized" properly implies that the electron does not "belong to" any one atom and instead floats or roams like a flirty bar-fly from atom to atom very rapidly attempting to satisfy every hint of positive attraction (which changes every time she moves toward it).
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby helper » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:20 pm

Turd Ferguson wrote:You again?

What is your fascination with this, over any other molecule? I gotta say, it is odd for someone to be fixated on a molecule for purely abstract purposes, with no indication of practical application.

I'm not trolling you, not bring hostile, just what to know why your so interested in this, it is about as random as it gets.

When electrons were discovered,
people tried to devise classical pathways.
This was easy for most simple
molecules, but no one could ever
do Benzene. (Read Science history)
So the search for
a classical solution was abandoned
and we get dead/alive cats in boxes
and other things that REAL
scientists would laugh at.
This is a CLASSICAL solution for
Benzene. No such has ever been
presented before.
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Re: Classical Benzene- no "delocalization" required

Postby The Golden Turd » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:27 pm

None of our current model pathways are correct either, why we are constantly fucking around with Dark Matter, or causality that has to operate in multiple parallel dimensions like in M Theory, to explain activity. We had a similar issue in antiquity with the earth centered models of the cosmos vs a sun centered one. We have the full capacity to explain how we think atoms work, can prove it, our ideas are predictive and falsible, but are a miserable, miserable wreck when it comes to explaining all the things we observe, reconciling it with what we presume.

We end up saying silly shit, like nothing moves faster than light, but most matter doesn't interact with light, in the form of dark matter which never really interacts with normal visual but everything is relative in the universe, and we know this from empirical, testable data. WTF? Some assholes are standing in the CERN Facility hi giving one another on the shit they pull off. They enlarge the area of the universe time 10x itself with startling Jew telescope discoveries that the universe is bigger than though- doesn't effect their dark matter calculations at all. Everything remains the fucking same. Why? Cause they don't fucking know. It's like the retrograde motion of the planets under a heliocentric system. You can calculate the timing of a eclipse just fine under it, but get the mechanics of other celestial bodies wrong- but the theory us able to explain every detail, it is observable, testable, results in the same bullshit.

Now I fully expect James to cone out with field graphs of atoms, explaining how it is, and I predict I will completely ignore him, shrugging that shit off, because simply put, I think we aren't even close in terms of atomic geometry. It is as good as we can make it be, as our concept if science allows, explaining all the parts as a whole, all the things we can observe. You can observe planets going backwards, and make astrological predictions based off it, everybit of data seemingly correct, but it is utterly wrong. We added too many parts to make sense of too many fields, too many busy thinkers, when stuff is likely accidently duplicated needlessly. Observation forces it's own paradoxes in geometric presumption. Chemistry carries some of these issues. Do you think if we really knew how a atom behaved, our atomic table of elements would look as absurd and irregular as it does now? We clearly are missing or mixing up very simple shit.
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