THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

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THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:56 pm

THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/
==..
God is dead. God remains dead.
And we have killed him.
Yet his shadow still looms.
/ Friedrich Nietzsche /
==..
Every generation of people kills God but “his shadow still looms”
Why?
Why is there something rather than nothing?
By Robert Adler 6 November 2014
==..
The universe is flat and why that's important
. . .
That's because only a flat universe is likely to have come from nothing.
Everything that exists, from stars and galaxies to the light we see them by,
must have sprung from somewhere. We already know that particles spring
into existence at the quantum level, so we might expect the universe
to contain a few odds and ends. But it takes a huge amount of energy
to make all those stars and planets.
Where did the universe get all this energy?

(, . . . . . . . from NOTHING . . . .
NOTHING is ITSELF some kind of INFINITE ENERGY. )
/ Israel Socratus /

As Krauss puts it, "The laws of physics as we understand them make
it eminently plausible that our universe arose from nothing –
- no space, no time, no particles, nothing that we now know of."
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106 ... ist-at-all
===.
My conclusion.
If everything was created from a Nothing then this Nothing can be some
kind of God. The God can be the scientific Nothing.
Different people in different places gave to Nothing different private names.
But Nothing doesn’t have private name.
The Nothing has only one private formula.
And this private formula of Nothing is T=0K. (!)
================…
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik Socratus
=========…
The secret of God and Life is hiding in the ' Theory of Light Quanta.'
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Meno_ » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:46 am

If God can be scientific, then Man, who created both, is=God.

God was a very early and necessary form of invention, it has been sustained for the necessity of overcoming that, which prevents his existence. Therefore, to think is primarily to exist, and only secondarily to perceive.

Therefore, to existentially reduce God, is not only immoral, but illogical.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby James S Saint » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:27 am

God was no more an invention than Relativity or Evolution.
Is that an invention or a discovery?
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:21 am

We are surrounded by THINGS (as outside in nature as inside in our brains)
and we don’t leave place for NOTHING and it is a pity because NOTHING
can tell us something important about THINGS.
============…
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:37 pm

James S Saint wrote:God was no more an invention than Relativity or Evolution.
Is that an invention or a discovery?


Scientific “Relativity theory” was discovered.
Scientific “Evolution theory” was discovered.
God conception must be discovered on scientific (physics) basis.
The secret of God and Life is hiding in the ' Theory of Light Quanta.'
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby James S Saint » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:10 pm

socratus wrote:God conception must be discovered on scientific (physics) basis.

Only if you worship science.

Science has intentionally avoided any spiritual association by demand of the Church from day 1. All science has to do is define "God" and their game is all but over. But they are not likely to do that.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Pandora » Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:56 am

socratus wrote:Where did the universe get all this energy?

(, . . . . . . . from NOTHING . . . .
NOTHING is ITSELF some kind of INFINITE ENERGY. )

My conclusion.
If everything was created from a Nothing then this Nothing can be some
kind of God. The God can be the scientific Nothing.

It would make more sense to use unknown instead of nothing. People act in a variety of creative ways when they encounter the unknown.
Last edited by Pandora on Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:41 am

socratus wrote:Where did the universe get all this energy?

(, . . . . . . . from NOTHING . . . .
NOTHING is ITSELF some kind of INFINITE ENERGY. )

My conclusion.
If everything was created from a Nothing then this Nothing can be some
kind of God. The God can be the scientific Nothing.

I remind you of this:

Arminius wrote:
socratus wrote:
Arminius wrote:It is not true what certain physicists say:
"the vacuum is nothing, and nothing is not nothing,
so that something can be created out of nothing, the vacuum".
It is not true, because it is impossible - by definition.

All what physicists may get in that case is a linguistic change,
thus a new meaning of the word "nothing" which leads to a new meaning of physics
and other science sectors, to a new belief, a new religion, a new theology, a new philosophy.

That is what they want, because they want what their rulers want them to want.
Physicists and other scientists depend on politico-economic rulers because
of the research funds, thus: money.

“Although we are used to thinking of empty space as containing
nothing at all, and therefore having zero energy, the quantum
rules say that there is some uncertainty about this. Perhaps each
tiny bit of the vacuum actually contains rather a lot of energy."

Then it would not be nothing.

socratus wrote:"If the vacuum contained enough energy, it ...."

It would not be nothing.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:21 pm

Science has created many "gods". Some are already "dead", some are still "alive". The number of "gods" has increased (thus: not decreased!).

Which "scientific god" do you prefer?

Or do you think that all these "gods" are no "real gods" or "true gods" but merely "false gods"?
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:02 pm

Rereading: Why is there something rather than nothing?
By Robert Adler 6 November 2014

“Here, then, is how everything could have come from nothing.”

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106 ... ist-at-all
========…
My opinion.
a) Everything was created from a infinite Energy of Nothing: T=0K..
b) Infinite Energy - Nothing is a flat continuum.
c) Infinite Nothing is filled by so-called “ virtual particles”.
d) Infinite Nothing created these “potential virtual particles” in His own
flat image (!). From all flat images (!) the geometrical form of circle
is most perfect form: c/d=pi=3,141592 . . . . . . ..
e) “ These so-called virtual particles don't last long enough to be
observed directly, but we know they exist by their effects.”
f) By their effect the “virtual particles “ can become real quantum
particles ( E=h*f) and create not only “space and time” but everything
in the Universe.
===========…
Israel Sadovnik Socratus
==============.. .
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:04 pm

Who is the greatest mathematician?

Scientists discuss “ the three body problem” of motion and
GOD solved the problem of eight planets and their satellites
movement in our solar system.
Conclusion:
We still don’t grow enough to understand God and His mathematics.
============…
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:59 pm

socratus wrote:Rereading: Why is there something rather than nothing?
By Robert Adler 6 November 2014

“Here, then, is how everything could have come from nothing.”

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106 ... ist-at-all
========…
My opinion.
a) Everything was created from a infinite Energy of Nothing: T=0K..
b) Infinite Energy - Nothing is a flat continuum.
c) Infinite Nothing is filled by so-called “ virtual particles”.
d) Infinite Nothing created these “potential virtual particles” in His own
flat image (!). From all flat images (!) the geometrical form of circle
is most perfect form: c/d=pi=3,141592 . . . . . . ..
e) “ These so-called virtual particles don't last long enough to be
observed directly, but we know they exist by their effects.”
f) By their effect the “virtual particles “ can become real quantum
particles ( E=h*f) and create not only “space and time” but everything
in the Universe.
===========…
Israel Sadovnik Socratus
==============.. .

That reminds me of the following two responds I posted in your other thread:

Arminius wrote:
socratus wrote:
Arminius wrote:[
Because the "great amount of Information" is only capable of explaining the medium or averarge issues, but not other issues like the beginning or the end of the “small Information".
The "small Information" is possibly too "small" (simple) for explaining it. The example "homo sapiens" makes it clear, I think: Humans often do not have many answers to the simpliest questions of their own dasein. Why are humans in the world?

So, we can have only “the medium or average issues” of information.
=====…

Assumed that there is macrophysics, mesophysics, and microphysics, I would say that we can know much about mesophysics, which is - by the way - the main part of physics, but not much about macro- and microphysics, namely something about the beginning and ending of the universe or of the so called „quantum world“. I guess that micro- and macrophysics are nore like metaphysics than physics, because almost everything they deal with is - more or less - theoretical, mathematical, logical, just metaphysical, thus philosophical.

Arminius wrote:It is certainly no coincidence that two similar beliefs occured and became dogmas at the same time: (1) the belief that the big bank can create the money out of nothing; (2) the bielef that the big bang can create the universe out of nothing. :wink:
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Meno_ » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:57 pm

James S Saint wrote:
socratus wrote:God conception must be discovered on scientific (physics) basis.

Only if you worship science.


Science has intentionally avoided any spiritual association by demand of the Church from day 1. All science has to do is define "God" and their game is all
but over. But they are not likely to do that.



And the worship of science and god are interpositional justifications for the shift from primary and secondary logic, except the nomenclature shifted from ' worship' to 'respect for', then as if devolution had to be accounted for, 'fear of'.

The destructural movement to primal causes can never be eradicated, in spite of declarations to the effect that history is dead. Angst in the modern world xistential sense will not stop there, it really has to drop to the very abyss of it, the very basic fear of pre-civilized man.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:29 pm

History is not dead. At least: Not yet.

Compare: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=185646.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:01 pm

James S Saint wrote:
socratus wrote:God conception must be discovered on scientific (physics) basis.

Only if you worship science.

Science has intentionally avoided any spiritual association by demand of the Church from day 1. All science has to do is define "God" and their game is all but over. But they are not likely to do that.

If they merely did that one thing (defining "God"), then they would not remain so dependent from money as they are. Defining "God" requires less money than a "Very Large Telescope" or a "Large Hadron Collider". :wink:

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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Meno_ » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:45 am

Arminius wrote:History is not dead. At least: Not yet.

Compare: viewtopic.php?
f=1&t=185646.


We killed the gods, therefore they revenged us by killing our memories, our past. Maybe not quite totally, but for all effective purposes, yes.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Sat Oct 15, 2016 2:28 pm

a) The source of everything is an infinite Energy of Nothing: T=0K..
b) Infinite Energy - Nothing is a flat continuum.
c) Infinite Nothing is filled by so-called “ virtual particles”.
d) Infinite Nothing (T=0K) created these “potential virtual particles”
in “His/Her/Its” own flat image (!). From all flat images (!) the
geometrical form of circle is most perfect form: c/d=pi=3,141592 . . . . . . ..
. . . . . . . .
=============…
‘If we were looking for something that we could conceive of
as God within the universe of the new physics, this ground state,
coherent quantum vacuum might be a good place to start.’
/ Book ‘The quantum self ’ page 208 by Danah Zohar. /
#
When the next revolution rocks physics,
chances are it will be about nothing—the vacuum,
that endless infinite void.
http://discovermagazine.com/2008/aug/18 ... everything
=====================…
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby James S Saint » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:24 pm

socratus wrote:c) Infinite Nothing is filled by so-called “ virtual particles”.

If it is filled, then it isn't "nothing".

socratus wrote:d) Infinite Nothing (T=0K) created these “potential virtual particles”

If it created anything, then it wasn't nothing.
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:06 am

jerkey wrote:
Arminius wrote:History is not dead. At least: Not yet.

Compare: viewtopic.php?
f=1&t=185646.


We killed the gods, therefore they revenged us by killing our memories, our past. Maybe not quite totally, but for all effective purposes, yes.

"We“ did not kill all gods, it is the other way around: more gods have been invented since "our“ one God was murdered by "us“ (in the last 18th century). Scientific gods, economic gods, political gods, pop gods and many other gods are the most and the youngest gods (false gods).
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:10 am

It seems that some people are talking as if nothing would be everything - so as if black would be white, right (correct) would be left (wrong, false), war would be peace, ... and so on.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:37 pm

Arminius wrote:It seems that some people are talking as if nothing would be everything -
so as if black would be white, right (correct) would be left (wrong, false),
war would be peace, ... and so on.


Black is black and white is white, right is not left and . ... and so on.

Why is nothing would be something?
#
a) We cannot reach T=0K.
b) We cannot reach the density of “virtual particles” –E=Mc^2
c) It means it is impossible to observe them directly by scientific tools
and therefore T=0K and –E=Mc^2 are “nothing” for scientists who want
observe these parameters by tools, but after they say:
“ . . . . we know they exist by their effects.”
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106 ... ist-at-all

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Q ... simir.html

So, nothing became not- nothing, nothing became something . . . . things.
#
On the other hand, . . . . if observation is scientific doctrine for check the
truth of theory, then why did they accept the quark and string theories?
There are no facts of their observation; there are no facts of their effects,
there are only their mathematical interpretations, mathematical play.

========…
The secret of God and Life is hiding in the ' Theory of Light Quanta.'
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Arminius » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:01 pm

socratus wrote:
Arminius wrote:It seems that some people are talking as if nothing would be everything -
so as if black would be white, right (correct) would be left (wrong, false),
war would be peace, ... and so on.


Black is black and white is white, right is not left and . ... and so on.

Why is nothing would be something?
#
a) We cannot reach T=0K.
b) We cannot reach the density of “virtual particles” –E=Mc^2
c) It means it is impossible to observe them directly by scientific tools
and therefore T=0K and –E=Mc^2 are “nothing” for scientists who want
observe these parameters by tools, but after they say:
“ . . . . we know they exist by their effects.”
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141106 ... ist-at-all

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Q ... simir.html

So, nothing became not- nothing, nothing became something . . . . things.
#
On the other hand, . . . . if observation is scientific doctrine for check the
truth of theory, then why did they accept the quark and string theories?
There are no facts of their observation; there are no facts of their effects,
there are only their mathematical interpretations, mathematical play.

========…

Not all scientists accept the quark theory and the string theories, and the others do it because of their interests and, of course, because of the fact that they are just theorists.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:42 am

Book: The quantum self
It might even give us some ground to speculate that
the vacuum itself (and hence the universe) is ‘conscious.
/ page 208. by Danah Zohar. /
#
If we were looking for something that we could conceive
of as God within the universe of the new physics, this ground
state, coherent quantum vacuum might be a good place to start.
/ Book: ‘The quantum self ’ page 208. by Danah Zohar. /

The Danah Zohar arguments are following.
1
The vacuum is the basic, fundamental and underlying reality of which
everything in the universe – including ourselves – is an expression.
2.
Vacuum is not empty. Vacuum is full with virtual antiparticles.
These virtual energy-antiparticles are in potential conditions.
But after their process of fluctuations they appear as real particles.
3.
Futher, excitations ( fluctuations) of this coherent vacuum
condensate appear to have the same mathematics as the
excitations of our own, Frohlich-style Bose - Einstein condensate.
Understanding this might well lead us to conclude that the physics
which gives us human consciousness is one of the basic
potentialities within the quantum vacuum, the fundament of all reality.
/ Book ‘The quantum self ’ page 208. By Danah Zohar /

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danah_Zohar
======.
My opinion.
a) Grand Creator exist in the reference frame of infinite eternal
continuum T=0K (neither time nor space . . . more correct:
neither gravity-time nor gravity-space)
b) Grand Designer created the gravity-time and gravity-space
in which we live now.
c) the problem is that Stephen Hawking and his colleagues
don’t accept the concept of the “ PHYSICAL INFINITY”.
They try to run away from “INFINITY” with all their power
and therefor they say “ Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is
no time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions
to the edge of the Earth. The Earth is a sphere. It does not have an edge,
so looking for it is a futile exercise.” - Hawking
d) in the infinite eternal continuum T=0K the Grand Designer
created the MATERIAL UNIVERSE.
e) don’t know what T=0K is scientists call it “NOTHIGNESS”
#
The problem of the exact description of vacuum, in my opinion,
is the basic problem now before physics. Really, if you can’t correctly
describe the vacuum, how it is possible to expect a correct description
of something more complex?
/ Paul Dirac /
==============. ..
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby Meno_ » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:30 pm

Science is only a vastly advanced form of language of perception, and a recent one at that. As languages go, perception is at the bottom of it.

Infinity,nothingness,vacuum, elementary particles are a
re not objects of primal perception, they were conceptual objects of science.


They mean no-thing, if 'thing' is described by other corresponding languages. No thing, and infinity are not opposites, they are various different descriptions
using conceptual objects.




It takes consciousness to perceive objects, whether conceptual or otherwise, where there is no clear break between them.


So the most which can be said at this time is: conceptual and real objects, undifferentiable are
related(common origin) therefore, it seems to
indicate the conclusion that being and becoming, nothingness and being are really the same.


Whether these are mere absolute concepts and nothing else is of no concern at this point, because here intentionality brings causation into the picture,
but this awareness comes to be repost facto;Or whether it is the other way around, is still a matter of conjecture.
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Re: THE SCIENTIFIC GOD. /by Socratus/

Postby socratus » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:29 am

jerkey wrote:Science is only a vastly advanced form of language of perception, and a recent one at that. As languages go, perception is at the bottom of it.

Infinity,nothingness,vacuum, elementary particles are a
re not objects of primal perception, they were conceptual objects of science.


They mean no-thing, if 'thing' is described by other corresponding languages. No thing, and infinity are not opposites, they are various different descriptions
using conceptual objects.




It takes consciousness to perceive objects, whether conceptual or otherwise, where there is no clear break between them.


So the most which can be said at this time is: conceptual and real objects, undifferentiable are
related(common origin) therefore, it seems to
indicate the conclusion that being and becoming, nothingness and being are really the same.


Whether these are mere absolute concepts and nothing else is of no concern at this point, because here intentionality brings causation into the picture,
but this awareness comes to be repost facto;Or whether it is the other way around, is still a matter of conjecture.



Infinity, nothingness, time, elementary particles were objects
of primal perception. They were described in different ancient
books . . . for example Vedas . . . . . purusha and pracriti . . .
. . . Hermetic Principles . . .

Later these objects became objects of science.
The science has own language and these ‘old ancient things' scientists
try to describe by their language. This language is mathematical.

So, ancient books and scientific theories tried to describe one and the
same things (quantum things), infinity, nothingness-vacuum from
different points of view.
Our ancestor and modern scientists tried to understand one and the
same basis of existence and the break between them only it the way
that they have chosen.
Science can only logical (using formulas, equations, laws) explain
the ideas of ancient people.
#
Even an omnipotent God could not create a square circle
or make 2 plus 3 equal five . . . because . . . His work is limited
by the laws of Physics. And as wise as every wise man
God wouldn't “make a stone so heavy He couldn't lift”.

This is the reason that we can understand Him logically.
======================…
The secret of God and Life is hiding in the ' Theory of Light Quanta.'
socratus
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:27 am
Location: Israel. Kiriat - Gat.

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