What does free will have to do with anything? I bet you’re circumcised, but even if you’re not, do you damn all those parents who cut their kid’s foreskin off for enslaving their child?
Why?
Why?
Are you happy?
No, actually I am appauled that you didn’t understand what I was trying to say. I am saying that if a parent wants to make the baby the way they feel is best, than that parent is a very selfish individual. Why? Because they would rather have a child that does somthing they want them to do, rather than what nature has given them. The parent is saying that they would be more happy if their child did this, rather than what the child would do naturally. A parent that isn’t happy with what their child does should not be a parent at all.
Atheism_Saves wrote:
Is the parent that gives their child the vaccine for polio a selfish individual? After all, it is Nature’s will that wants the child to live a deformed life. Perhaps Nature wishes to give a child a cleft lip, is it an unselfish parent that does not wish to have this remedied?
People go against nature all of the time; so much in fact that we have even assigned it a name- progress.
I would like to also mention that I am completely in favor of your right to choose having a “natural” birth (whatever that means). If you want to have retarded, disease ridden babies, that’s your choice. One thing that I can assure you, is that your children would have a lot more questions concerning your decisions than mine would.
Why are you appauled? It’s not like you actually SAID anything. You came here, spoke much filth about what your opinion is with absolutely no support for those claims. Asking “Why?” is probably the best thing I could think to say to you without reaching into my rather large repitoir of insults and ad hominim attacks.
You haven’t thought this through enough. Think about why you believe what you believe, then use rationality to prove it. You already recognize your emotional ties to the issue, now try and destroy them.
And I’m sorry you’re not happy. Ignorance may be bliss, but knowledge is power. Take solace in your strength of knowledge and give little thought to the bliss you had as a younger child.
He does have a point though, though he may not realise it, think of it another way, say a parent gave their child the ultimate tools to become an international rock star, the looks, the vocals, the memory, co-ordination. In essence that parent has chosen the future for their child.
Ok that happens now with what kind of education we are subjected to, etc. but in the end when we become vaguely independant at the ages of 14-16 (or earlier/later depending on your culture) we can discard the shakles and move on. A child which has been engineered to be one thing will have almost have a disadvantage is choosing any other route.
It’s not much of an argument, but it is something worth considering, in the end any child is going to be their own person within ten years and then have to live with the choices their parents have made for them. While a certain degree of choice is already given, it is worrying that these freakish parents could be given even more control over their child’s life.
If someone wants to be ugly, they are.
Simple as that.
Potentiality is not the same thing as actuality.
Giving potential to someone is a good thing, but it doesn’t mean they’ll achieve this potential, no?
Are you denying this child the ability to be disfigured in a car wreck, to spray themselves with acid, or to be brain damaged by “walking” off of a trolley…while it’s still moving full speed (like my roomate did 2 years ago… that moron).
When you speak about this, you’re talking about the morality of fucking with DNA, not the child itself. The child is a red herring. It’s about the bigger picture. People are worried of some sort of Huxlian model coming true. I say, bring it.
Remember how I mentioned the movie Godsend at the beginning of this thread? Well, you won’t believe this site I found:
godsendinstitute.org/
I think the movie is based on it. I called the number but got their voicemail. It’s pretty crazy stuff. What do you think?
Im not religious at all but I dont think we should tamper with nature. We dont need to anyway. We dont know what the consiquences are, first its cloneing then its gentical engineering and then were creating super humans that are potential masterminds, dictators, murderes they would have the strength and intelligence to out wit us. The clones that are made would feel strange and confused they wouldnt lead a normal life.
I started a petition against the Godsend Institute. Please sign it and help put an end to their human cloning madness!
petitionspot.com/petitions/Godsendinstitute
Fine. We can all die of the common cold then.
Here’s the best article on human cloning I’ve ever read.
Anyone signed the petition yet?
Comparing human cloning to prevention of the common cold is utterly ridiculous. And that article is not exactly resounding clarification of all the objections to the practice. In the real world, socio-economic factors play an undeniably crucial role in the development and distribution of any technology. Human cloning is not going to be readily available to everyone, it will be limited to those who can afford it. And, personally, I think the majority of people in the upper eschelon of economic hierarchy are, in many cases, the last people I would want replicating themselves.
I had not seen that Godsend Intitute site before, but now that I look at it, I offer it as preliminary support for my previous statement. Every picture on that site depicts smiling, clean-cut, generic, white, bourgeois exemplars of conservative “family values.” Again, this shows exactly what “reality” these “experts” are in touch with.
Exactly how I feel!! These “doctors” are crazy!
Oh! I so agree with you. A parent like that needs a toy or a robot of which the controls are in the hands of that parent. THEY DO NOT NEED A CHILD. And you know what because of cloning, luckily, that’s exactly what nature will give them, a robot. Heh!heh!heh!
Guest (2nd one on this topic from the beginning)
You suggest that cloning is alright? How about this - we clone you (The cell or the DNA in the clone would be yours) and you have to raise that child. Would you agree to that? Considering the fact that cloned animals soon develop diseases like diabetes, arthritis, etc., and age extremely fast then how can you of all people wimper as to the genetic problem you have which is not even due to cloning. I know it is unfortunate that that should happen but you must understand that life is not perfect. If life was perfect no one would want to live anymore. Do you know why? Because, “perfection stinks.” I understand what you must have gone through after realizing your problem but then should all people pre-disposed to cancer genetically NOT have babies? You must understand that life can never be perfect but it does try to balance at other places. So, you might have more privileges in other areas than this other person who can reproduce. Besides you can always adopt. There are people with other kinds of genetic diseases that lose a lot and won’t even have what you can have. And because of your problem would you suggest that every couple go through a full medical exam before mating? What would life be anymore for Christ’s sakes? Don’t be sad because of what you feel is your parents’ mistake, that’s life, accept it and move on. As to cloning, I feel that it is alright for stem cells to be used for treating diseases. As for stealing souls, yes I believe that the whole spirit world will be in chaos if we start to clone humans, because I feel that spirit enters the body at the precise time a baby is born or out of the womb. So, we’ll be wiped out in no time at all if we clone humans or animals. Earth will be another barren Mars in no time. Ans some other planet will say, “Oh! Do you know they just discovered a planet called earth and it looks like that once upon a time, water there used to abundantly flow.” Well? Then, would you rather have what you have right now or would you rather like to clone animals and humans still? I don’t know much about cloning but this is what I feel right now.
Wow, someone agrees with me… heh
I think it’s kinda scary that we could possibly clone humans. However, I don’t think that’s a reason to be against it.
Throughout history people have always tried to stop things that were new and they were scared of because they didn’t know what consequences could come of it. Religion, especially, has always been a huge obstacle to scientific progress.
I say fuck religion and narrow minded people. Humanity has already gone to shit. If there are any problems that come with cloning, well… I don’t think it can get much worse than it already is.
Then again, maybe it can get worse. We really don’t need to clone morons.
And who would be in charge of deciding who has “better qualities” than others? Imagine some power tripping people being in charge of cloning. What would stop them from cloning gullible morons that believe everything they are told or that are so easily influenced by others’ opinions without investigating enough to make an opinion of their own? They’d definately have a lot of control there. (I’m speaking about in the long run…)
Cloning in reality isn’t real. A clone exact in every way. when you clone the image is only exact. the thought and personality can be come dramaticly different if the clone is in a different environment. so i beleive that cloning is ethical. but one day can become very out of hand. wait until there is nothing left to clone. when every one is the same image. the clones then would then wish that cloning was never unlocked.
Uhhh is the godsend institute real, or is that a joke? i was just looking through the website and i’m a little freaked out… i’m not making a comment about its ethics or anything, just uhhh, a little hard to believe that’s an actual clinic. seriously, is it?
Godsend kinda reminds me of that clinic (Clonaid) run by the cult (Raelians) that claims to have made a number of successful human clones… each site jumps out at you with the possibility of ressurecting lost loved ones and godsend has a little ad with “I didn’t think it could be true, but we’re a family again!”…course godsend doesn’t have anything about aliens creating us…
i gotta say though that if the God of the old testament is out there and still of the same temperment i would imagine some serious fire and brimstone within the near future… i can’t imagine there would be an allowance of anything close to Creation of life (i think god has a copyright on that)