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ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:21 am
by AutSider
I've been browsing the debate section and couldn't help but note team debates of ILO vs ILP from 2009 and before. It looks like an interesting concept.

What do ILP mods think of permitting an ILP vs KT debate?

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:18 am
by Amorphos
I would welcome it if it wouldn't be horses running against a train on a single track. in other words, that you can debate all you like with some people but a single tracked mind just keeps rolling off the same arguments.

ie. there is no debate with people who aren't prepared to listen nor change their position. KT is not philosophy.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:45 am
by Carleas
I second Amorphos. ILP/ILO worked because the two sites had a similar tone. Indeed, at the time PavlovianModel was a moderator on both sites, so the standards were, if not the same, at least within the same space of moderation philosophy.

KT's tone does not seem similarly compatible. Is there even anyone who is active and respected on both sites right now? In the ILO/ILP debate we had several to choose from to serve as judges. (And this isn't meant as a slight to anyone who frequents both; I don't go to KT much, so this is a sincere question.)

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:48 am
by zinnat
Debate between ILP and KT certainly would be interesting. The only issue is to find a judge agreeable to both sides.

What about Jacob, given that both sides are aware of him!

With love,
Sanjay

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:57 am
by surreptitious57
A debate between the two sites would be interesting but given the low opinion which Satyr has
of everyone here who is not a member there too what are the chances of it actually happening

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:20 am
by Mictlantecuhtli
I would like to see one. I would like to challenge Satyr one on one but every time I offered a debate he would turn it away.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:25 am
by Mr Reasonable
Probably because you're an imbecile shit cow monkey liberal homo. At least that's why he doesn't like to argue with me as far as I can tell. I'm the stain or the smear or something like that. He does a whole thing it's really funny.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:02 am
by surreptitious57
I do not agree with much of what Satyr says though he is a wise and intelligent man so deserves to have
that much at least acknowledged if nothing else. I have listened to him talk and I found him to be more
restrained in dialogue than in text and I think that is a more accurate representation of who he really is

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:17 am
by Moreno
You could have the debate in both forums simultaneously.

A moderator from there moderates there.

One from here moderates here.

Tone is what tone is given the forum.

If the concern is that KT debaters will be bad boys and girls, just have the mod explain how tone will lead to debate loss after X infractions and see what happens. Outsider seems to be from there, so it would seem at least one of they want a debate. That desire will or will not lead to conforming to the rules of the debate in ILP. Just be clear from the outset.

There is always the 'danger' that the debate starts, degenerates, the mod shuts down the debat for infractions and KT judges this as unfair, fear of certain ideas, bias, etc.

To me that is not much of a negative outcome. It didn't work, in that case, and maybe a try happens again in five years.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:32 am
by A Shieldmaiden
If it is Satyr you have your sights on, why not ask him, who he wishes to debate with.

I would like to see Turd or Mr Reasonable debate with Satyr, as they have not to date done so and they have access to KT and here.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:23 pm
by The Golden Turd
I already talked to him, over on his site, and I know him from earlier on NietzscheForum. I'm not exactly impressed with his Satanic Neo-Pythagorean outlook, barely registers as philosophy.

I will be more impressed, however, with Shieldmaiden carrying her own burdens, develop herself, to take down her own monsters. I'm tired of people like you or phoneuturia wanting me to crawl into his den and slay him just cause he is a egotistical pervert.... there isnt a cure for that level of perversion, even if I utterly break his image and authority, he will set up shop elsewhere under near the same persona, with the same fetishes. There isn't much point to what he does, he attracts submissive, they are a moth to the flame, everyone gets fucked up, nobody, including Satyr benefits in the end. Its the song Hotel California.

All I can do after a while is warn people. He will "train up" the occasional perv, send them over with silly notions, not too difficult to nip his neophytes in the butt.... they seem used to taking it there anyway. Short of putting him in a physical headlock and slapping him in the face to stop, I don't think anyone can. If you break him of his persona and following, he will just set up a new one eksewhere, like any cultist. Its not hard to do. Going to his website isn't like a Knight entering into a dragons cave, but more like a cop stepping in some dogshit in the park on the way to wake a hobo on a park bench, telling him he has to leave. You got shit on your shoe, and the hobo will just push his cart over to a new bench nearby, just out of sight. It is the least glamorous and fulfilling aspect of police work. I feel sorry for the new people signing up on his site, but like.... we have free will, they choose to be there. Satyr is only my problem when he makes himself my problem, and he usually is just some rather quiet perv doing the same routine to a few confused souls.

At some point, I would like to see Shieldmaiden learn to fight her own battles. This means developing a platform capable of giving more than it takes, actually asserting herself in difficult situations where she is being pressed, and turning arguments. Currently you can't. Not much point being here if your unable to successfully defend a position. Even when Ecmandu is absolutely foolish and unreasonable, he still tries to defend and support his ideas. I recommend sitting down, with a notebook and pen, and divide his posts up into rhetorical parts, figure his approach to dialectics. After you figure him out, build up.

Then once you do this, unleash a attack on some of the regulars here on whatever.... test your skills. If you ladies do this, your skill set will be more than enough to torment and tango with Satyr. You don't need to keep coming here, begging the guys to do so.... he isn't exactly the deepest pool, is rather shallow and easy to penetrate. I give him a medium rating as far as complexity goes, on a average scale.... he is hardly invincible. So have at it, and don't tell me the results as I don't care. He isn't the only perv on the net with a minor cultic presence.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:27 pm
by Mictlantecuhtli
It would be nice if Satyr debated me because he's always talking about the ills of nihilism and I'm about as nihilistic as they come. You would think that he would want to match his beliefs against an identified nihilist such as myself but as I said before he's always refrained from a debate with me.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:43 pm
by Moreno
HaHaHa wrote:It would be nice if Satyr debated me because he's always talking about the ills of nihilism and I'm about as nihilistic as they come. You would think that he would want to match his beliefs against an identified nihilist such as myself but as I said before he's always refrained from a debate with me.

If you want to debate him. Register on KT with a non-Joker related name. Post a bit here and there and then after a bit take him on as from a nihilist perspective. IOW don't defend your nihilism but attack his positions from your perspective. He may figure out who you are after a while - though camoflage will be nice rhetorical training - but you will get some debate and I doubt they are meticulous about IPs so you will get in there. Once the debate is over you can post a link here or cut and past the whole damn thing here.

I somehow doubt the ILP vs KT debate is going to happen here, despite the shoddy quarantine, appearances seem to have to be kept up.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:48 pm
by Mictlantecuhtli
Moreno wrote:
HaHaHa wrote:It would be nice if Satyr debated me because he's always talking about the ills of nihilism and I'm about as nihilistic as they come. You would think that he would want to match his beliefs against an identified nihilist such as myself but as I said before he's always refrained from a debate with me.

If you want to debate him. Register on KT with a non-Joker related name. Post a bit here and there and then after a bit take him on as from a nihilist perspective. IOW don't defend your nihilism but attack his positions from your perspective. He may figure out who you are after a while - though camoflage will be nice rhetorical training - but you will get some debate and I doubt they are meticulous about IPs so you will get in there. Once the debate is over you can post a link here or cut and past the whole damn thing here.

I somehow doubt the ILP vs KT debate is going to happen here, despite the shoddy quarantine, appearances seem to have to be kept up.


Good ideas. I've thought about doing these things as well.

My more obvious account at KT has been quarantined to the dungeon area. So, there's that as well.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:54 pm
by Moreno
HaHaHa wrote:
Good ideas. I've thought about doing these things as well.

My more obvious account at KT has been quarantined to the dungeon area. So, there's that as well.
Sure, that's why I suggest going in under cover. Yeah, the dungeon. Satyr seemed to think that he was against censorship, as opposed to ILP, for example. But his censorship means that one must log in and post in a place that is labelled for _____________ I cannot remember the insulting category. So give up some dignity right off, agree to the label and you get to post. Mainstream media have this kind of 'openness' also, where ideas are presented as implicitly and often also explicitly dismissable and crazy. Not much nuance in his sense of what censorship is. He probably also thinks a burglar can only open a door with a battering ram.

What his method does is lead to anyone having an ounce of self-respect saying bye-bye while allowing him to say they were allowed to speak. So it would be a clever strategy but I think he is sincere in feeling superior to ILP on the censorship issue. LOL.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:51 pm
by Ultimate Philosophy 1001
What is ILO? I love origami?

KT is asgard, Satyr is Odin (Anthony Hopkins) and goats do not belong at dinner tables no more than mortals such as Phred Phrederson belong at the dinner table. Satyr is only half goat, so he is allowed at the dinner table on tuesdays.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:24 pm
by A Shieldmaiden
Turd wrote:

Then once you do this, unleash a attack on some of the regulars here on whatever.... test your skills. If you ladies do this, your skill set will be more than enough to torment and tango with Satyr. You don't need to keep coming here, begging the guys to do so.... he isn't exactly the deepest pool, is rather shallow and easy to penetrate. I give him a medium rating as far as complexity goes, on a average scale.... he is hardly invincible. So have at it, and don't tell me the results as I don't care. He isn't the only perv on the net with a minor cultic presence.


Check out the heading …..ILP vs KT debate.

I take it from your post, you are not willing to participate because Satyr is too mediocre for you. Whatever he is (and I have had my own battles with him), he knows himself and he knows people.

It's o.k to say you don't wish to participate in this debate, but please refrain from the shit you spewed out as to the reasons why you won't and then to artfully switch it over to my alleged lack of debating skills.

You are so transparent and such a coward.

and I was looking forward to you getting your ass whipped. HA! :mrgreen:

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:29 pm
by Ecmandu
What the hell turd??

I read satyrs philosophy in that thread he has reserved for explaining it... I can obliterate it!

Completely and utterly.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:30 pm
by AutSider
Haha, for now at least nobody on KT is willing to participate. Most find it beneath them. Understandable. I also embrace the elitist philosophy, but to a lesser extent. I don't think all opinions are equal.

Anyway, it's pointless to discuss details of debate until we get at least 3 people willing to debate... which I doubt is going to happen. But let's wait and see.

I already talked to him, over on his site, and I know him from earlier on NietzscheForum. I'm not exactly impressed with his Satanic Neo-Pythagorean outlook, barely registers as philosophy.


Satanic Neo-Pythagorean? Are you just making turds up, or are you just a reTurd?

HaHaHa your writing style is way too conspicuous for you to go under the radar. For one, the misplaced 'wheres' would be an easy and sure way to identify you. I'm also positive that you have no clue what the KT position on nihilism is.

EDIT: conspicuous, not inconspicuous... silly me.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:08 pm
by Ecmandu
I'll debate anyone on ilp about that long ass thread that satyr has about his philosophy, section by section... That thing is a pseudo intellectual joke!

The only reason I even read it is because of how obsessed people are about him...

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:09 pm
by Amorphos
HaHaHa wrote:It would be nice if Satyr debated me because he's always talking about the ills of nihilism and I'm about as nihilistic as they come. You would think that he would want to match his beliefs against an identified nihilist such as myself but as I said before he's always refrained from a debate with me.


I noticed he was speaking about his wish to formerly not get old, but now is, which sounds like nihilism to me. :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I am happy to debate and did so the end of last year. There is only so much obnoxious attitude I can take, and if people are going to use terms like 'the will' as if it is something, and not a Victorian perception long since abandoned as scientific, then there is no way to get down to the specifics. How can I take someone's arguments apart at the seams, if they just keep glazing over everything with rounded off terminology?

Having said that, I found it somewhat interesting, and its hard to see the world without knowing that there is the [dumbass] Nietzschean side of things. The ancients kinda took the world as it comes at you, if a Spartan likes little boys or a poet is a lesbian, then that's how they are. These days we tend to look at the former and many other things as a mental illness, which it is ~ if one looses sight of their former positions and heads headlong into further extremes.

My main argument is that satyr thinks the greeks were/are the most advanced, but I think the druids were. :P Though I don't like all the agendas flying round these days, where 'the right thing' is used to propagate said agendas as if they are trying to make the world into something it isn't, I still think all that happened between there and here have been improvements. Humanity has advanced, and there is little point looking back at ideals from ancient societies with relatively little understanding of the universe. ...philosophy aside that is [obviously we can learn from that] ~ but that doesn't include their social philosophies.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:18 pm
by surreptitious57
Outsider wrote:
I am also positive that you have no clue what the KT position on nihilism is

The KT position on nihilism is actually very well documented. It is totally against it in all of its various manifestations
I have listened to two of Satyrs twelve part monologue on it. And the mission statement expressly states that the site
is proudly anti nihilistic. It can not be any more explicit than that. So why you think Ha has no clue I just do not know

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:32 pm
by Is_Yde_opN
surreptitious57 wrote:
Outsider wrote:
I am also positive that you have no clue what the KT position on nihilism is

The KT position on nihilism is actually very well documented. It is totally against it in all of its various manifestations
I have listened to two of Satyrs twelve part monologue on it. And the mission statement expressly states that the site
is proudly anti nihilistic. It can not be any more explicit than that. So why you think Ha has no clue I just do not know


Not so much whether nihilism is good or bad but that Ha is rather nihilistic and that the pope is rather nihilistic too.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:22 am
by Meno_
Nevertheless, if challenged, not to accept the challenge would reek of a fear of failure of not being up to the challenge.

Re: ILP vs KT debate?

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:24 am
by Mr Reasonable
ILP is a bunch of people with different views. KTS is a bunch of people with the same views. That means something.