Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

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Wonderer
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Cyrene
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Total votes : 8

Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Carleas » Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:29 am

Wonderer vs. Cyrene

Let the discussion of the adversarial discussion begin.
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Re: Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Kriswest » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:50 pm

Ok, Society today has mass murders, war, gang violence, serial killings, slavery, road rage, etc. etc. . We kill in more violent ways and greater numbers then any tribe would ever have thought to do. We have more violent crimes commited every hour, more then ever before. And with failing economies it will only get worse. People are doing violence to get gasoline to get food or money because they have no jobs or poorly paid jobs. Violence will increase when economies are poor.
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Re: Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Carleas » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:44 pm

Kris, I think Cyrene made a good case that the types of violence and the percentages were higher in tribal cultures than in modern society.

In case anyone is interested, I found an amusing piece that touched on the Hunza tribe. It's in the midst of a larger article, but the information is pretty damning. The whole article is relevant to the debate, too, but the Hunza bit especially.
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Re: Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Xunzian » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:15 pm

I think an important point that Wonder didn't hit on that he could have is whether or not violence is prima facie bad. If people living in tribal societies are indeed happier despite things like rampant violence, lack of access to modern amenities, and so on, that would be an important point.
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Re: Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Wonderer » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:26 pm

Lol carleas, that article about the Hunza is quite a piece of work...

Aside from the fact that it largely based in skepticism, i'm not sure that modern Hunza could live up to its reputation .

Cyrene only had one argument in mind, and that was that modern society is statistically less violent. i tried to make a case showigng ho we could be less violent, but mroe importantly i tried to make a case for the superiority of traditional society in general (i.e more stable more enjoyable).

Perhaps i should have been more voiceful when carleas initially outlined the subject of the debate.

I'm satisfied with whatever result is deemed fit.

cheers.
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Re: Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Wonderer » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:44 pm

p.s about the Hunza people. that article wasn't the only source of information i had, i also saw a documentary claiming that there has never been a case of cancer in the hunza society, mind you it was from the 70's (it may have been soiled by now)
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Re: Progress vs. Problem: When Did Society Peak?

Postby Carleas » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:37 pm

The article I linked had some anecdote, but it was interesting anecdote. The point about birth records is significant, calling the longevity claims into question. The study that was mentioned that found the inhabitants to have all sorts of diseases makes the health claims unlikely. And the anecdote of the lady blaming 'fairy sickness' for the death of thirteen children shows how people can blame modernity just because modernity relables what was already there.
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